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So, basically, I really do like the idea of a gear light Pathfinder game, but don't like the idea of radically re-working the CR on the assorted monsters. I've thus designed a very basic level based system to compensate PCs for the loss of five of the Big 6. It's un-playtested, but it's so simple that it should pretty much work.
I didn't remove the Ability Enhancer somehow because it's the hardest to get rid of, and because Girdles of Giant Strength and such are actually nicely thematic, IMO. Also, having one required piece of gear isn't a huge deal, at least to me. Also, you can do without one as of 13th level by taking Bull's Strength or the equivalent as your Impossible Trick.
These rules are level based and dead simple, for the most part. They also (quite intentionally) allow for cool and powerful magical weapons and armor...PCs simply don't require those things to be effective.
Obviously, these rules change wealth by level assumptions, the changes to which are listed below.
I'm sure similar things have been mentioned/posted before, but,, well, here's mine:
Enhancements By Level:
All apply to all characters.
1: None.
2: Heroic Defense 1: +1 Deflection Bonus to Armor Class.
3: Equipment Mastery 1: +1 Enhancement Bonus to all weapons, armor and shields.
4: Survivor 1: +1 Enhancement Bonus to all Saves and Natural Armor.
5: Cool Trick: You receive one 0th-level spell from any list, which you can use as an at-will ability.
6: Heroic Defense 2: The Deflection Bonus to Armor Class rises to +2.
7: Equipment Mastery 2: The Enhancement Bonus to all weapons, armor and shields rises to +2.
8: Survivor 2: The Enhancement Bonus to all Saves and Natural Armor rise to +2.
9: Amazing Trick: You receive one 1st-level spell from any list, which you can use as an at-will ability.
10: Heroic Defense 3: The Deflection Bonus to Armor Class rises to +3.
11: Equipment Mastery 3: The Enhancement Bonus to all weapons, armor and shields rises to +3.
12: Survivor 3: The Enhancement Bonus to all Saves and Natural Armor rise to +3.
13:Impossible Trick: You receive one 2nd-level spell from any list, which you can use as an at-will ability.
14: Heroic Defense 4: The Deflection Bonus to Armor Class rises to +4.
15: Equipment Mastery 4: The Enhancement Bonus to all weapons, armor and shields rises to +4.
16: Survivor 4: The Enhancement Bonus to all Saves and Natural Armor rise to +4.
17: Miraculous Trick: You receive one 3rd-level spell from any list, which you can use as an at-will ability.
18: Heroic Defense 5: The Deflection Bonus to Armor Class rises to +5.
19: Equipment Mastery 5: The Enhancement Bonus to all weapons, armor and shields rises to +5.
20: Survivor 5: The Enhancement Bonus to all Saves and Natural Armor rise to +5.
Notes:
A +1 Enhancement bonus from this ability does not count as magic for overcoming Damage Reduction, but any magic weapon or a +2 or higher bonus will. Higher levels of enhancement bonus replace other things for purposes of piercing DR normally.
Monks do receive the Enhancement Bonus from Equipment Mastery to their AC once, despite not wearing armor (other unarmored characters do not). This is considered part of the Monk’s AC Bonus class feature.
Animal Companions receive all these benefits (except for Spell Tricks) based on their Hit Dice.
All these bonuses apply only to PC classes. NPC classed characters should ignore these, have reduced WBL, and halve their level (rounded up) before determining their CR (though they only subtract 1 from that halved score, not two). So a 4th level Warrior is only CR 1, while an 8th level Aristocrat is CR 3, while a Fighter 4/Aristocrat 2 is CR 4. Every two levels of one of these classes only adds 1 to a monster’s CR. This maintains 1st level Warriors as CR 1/3. Playing high CR monsters with racial HD as PCs will require additional GM adjudication under these rules and should be handled on a case by case basis.
Wealth By Level:
2: 500 GP
3: 1,000 GP
4: 1,500 GP
5: 2,500 GP
6: 4,000 GP
7: 6,000 GP
8: 8,000 GP
9: 11,000 GP
10: 15,000 GP
11: 20,000 GP
12: 27,000 GP
13: 35,000 GP
14: 45,000 GP
15: 60,000 GP
16: 80,000 GP
17: 105,000 GP
18: 135,000 GP
19: 175,000 GP
20: 220,000 GP
Basic Gear Assumptions:
Rods, Staffs, Wands, Scrolls, and Potions are more or less unchanged.
Rings are unchanged with the exception of Rings of Protection, which do not exist.
Wondrous Items are unchanged except for the Amulet of Mighty Fists (which follows the Weapon rules detailed below) and the following, which do not exist: Amulet of Natural Armor, Bracers of Armor, Cloak of Resistance.
Weapons and Armor never have basic enhancement bonuses, only equivalent properties such as Shocking, Defending, or Fortified. The weapon must be Masterwork to have these, but obviously needs no Enhancement bonus.
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5: Cool Trick: You receive one 0th-level spell from any list, which you can use as an at-will ability.
9: Amazing Trick: You receive one 1st-level spell from any list, which you can use as an at-will ability.
13:Impossible Trick: You receive one 2nd-level spell from any list, which you can use as an at-will ability.
17: Miraculous Trick: You receive one 3rd-level spell from any list, which you can use as an at-will ability.
This seems unnecessary. What was your thinking here? How would you adjust the WBL chart if these levels were adjust back to "None." like 1st level?
A +1 Enhancement bonus from this ability does not count as magic for overcoming Damage Reduction, but any magic weapon or a +2 or higher bonus will.
Why delay it until 7th level? I would think most characters should be able to bypass DR/magic by 3rd or 4th level at most.
Monks do receive the Enhancement Bonus from Equipment Mastery to their AC once, despite not wearing armor (other unarmored characters do not).
So they get one +1 at level 3 and no more? What? Huh? Why?
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This seems unnecessary. What was your thinking here? How would you adjust the WBL chart if these levels were adjust back to "None." like 1st level?
My thinking had three components. Well, four really, but the fourth was sorta already mentioned.
#1: Those levels gave nothing. This lacked symmetry, at least to me. So I gave them something.
#2: The reduced WBL results in fewer utility and consumable items, and this helps to compensate for that somewhat.
#3: Thematically, I really like characters picking up some tricks that they are just supernaturally good at as they level. It also helps to cut down on the vast advantage spellcasters have at high level, which is nice.
#4: As mentioned, you can use the 13th level one to compensate for a Stat Booster item and do without the Big 6 altogether. I think this is an important facet of gameplay to have available.
Thinking about it, though, I should explicitly prohibit healing spells from being used as Tricks...that'd get broken quick. So: No Lesser Restoration, Cure Light Wounds, Cure Moderate Wounds, or Cure Serious Wounds allowed.
If you were to get rid of it...well, I really don't know how that would work with the WBL chart as is. Of course, I don't know how that works with the system as presented either...
Why delay it until 7th level? I would think most characters should be able to bypass DR/magic by 3rd or 4th level at most.
Hmmm. You may be right. That rule actually dates back from an iteration of the rules where you got Equipment Mastery at 2nd and Heroic Defense at 3rd...but you have a definite point. Striking it is likely a good idea.
So they get one +1 at level 3 and no more? What? Huh? Why?
Sorry for any confusion: They get the full amount (+5 as of 19th level)...they just only get it once, not twice like someone using a shield would. My apologies for the confusion.
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If you were to get rid of it...well, I really don't know how that would work with the WBL chart as is. Of course, I don't know how that works with the system as presented either...
How did you come up with the modified WBL chart? I assumed you did some mathematical formula for how much would get subtracted at each level based on what bonus was given.
EDIT: Ah, upon examination, I can see that you merely (approximately) quartered their normal WBL chart. I think I'll leave it at that.
Sorry for any confusion: They get the full amount (+5 as of 19th level)...they just only get it once, not twice like someone using a shield would. My apologies for the confusion.
I'm still unclear why they get it at all. If it's because they can take Bracers of Armor, well other non-armored folk can take that as well. So either anyone without armor proficiency should gain the single bonus, or none should. Personally I'd lean towards none should.
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How did you come up with the modified WBL chart? I assumed you did some mathematical formula for how much would get subtracted at each level based on what bonus was given.EDIT: Ah, upon examination, I can see that you merely (approximately) quartered their normal WBL chart. I think I'll leave it at that.
Yeah. :)
Like I said it's dead simple.
A formula is hard to do because, well, if you get a Keen, Holy weapon (with, say, a +4 Enhancement from level) you have a very different amount of equivalent gear than someone without a magic weapon.
I'm still unclear why they get it at all. If it's because they can take Bracers of Armor, well other non-armored folk can take that as well. So either anyone without armor proficiency should gain the single bonus, or none should. Personally I'd lean towards none should.
Well, first off, I ditched Bracers of Armor entirely. Like Enhancement Bonuses to Armor AC they are part of the standard Big 6 Items...and thus (since they aren't a stat enhancer) not needed in this system.
Second, Wizards (or Sorcerers or Witches) do get the Equipment Training bonus when using, say, Mage Armor or Shield (or twice if using both)...but Monks (not being spellcasters) shouldn't need a spell like that to keep their AC on par, so I gave them the bonus even unarmored. It folds right in thematically, and honestly Monks need all the help they can get.
I mean, I'd like this to be a system where Vow of Poverty as written is actually a viable choice for a Monk (1 Item of Value=Stat Belt). That's part of the goal of low gear adventuring, at least to me.
I like the concept, but would personally drop the effective armor and weapon enhancements and replace them with ability enhancements, if only from a thematic point of view. I prefer a hero wielding his mighty magical sword than wearing a +6 belt of physical perfection.
I'm currently working on a system like this, and will post it when complete.
I do like the idea of giving the heroes "tricks" to make up for caster disparity, but I would prefer a pool of original ideas rather than just "choose a spell." For simplicity's sake, I understand the "choose a spell" mechanic. But if I'm building Conan, I'd rather he pick up a bonus feat than be able to cast a spell at-will.
Overall, though, I like it for its simplicity, and would love to see a more refined version.
...Catch Phrase,
-Chris
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I like the concept, but would personally drop the effective armor and weapon enhancements and replace them with ability enhancements, if only from a thematic point of view. I prefer a hero wielding his mighty magical sword than wearing a +6 belt of physical perfection.
Heh. My system actually allows for magical weapons as well, and makes all of them definitively cool (since they're all Flaming, Keen, Vorpal, etc.) without requiring them.
I'm currently working on a system like this, and will post it when complete.
I do like the idea of giving the heroes "tricks" to make up for caster disparity, but I would prefer a pool of original ideas rather than just "choose a spell." For simplicity's sake, I understand the "choose a spell" mechanic. But if I'm building Conan, I'd rather he pick up a bonus feat than be able to cast a spell at-will.
Overall, though, I like it for its simplicity, and would love to see a more refined version.
See, for Conan I'd give him something like Resistance as 0th level because his Saves are good, Shield as his 1st level spell, since his AC is really pretty good despite his varying level of armor and Bull's Strength as his 2nd level spell to make up for his usual lack of a belt. I rather doubt he'd be high enough level to get a 3rd level spell, but it'd likely be Haste if it was.
All those are the kind of effects I'm talking about.
Your system has some advantages, but one big disadvantage IMO: It raises every single Ability score by a lot, which strikes me as inappropriate for the vast majority of fictional heroes. I mean, do you really think, say, Conan's Wisdom or an archmage's Strength should rise by 4 points via process of osmosis?
*Unrelated Stuff*
Your system has some advantages, but one big disadvantage IMO: It raises every single Ability score by a lot, which strikes me as inappropriate for the vast majority of fictional heroes. I mean, do you really think, say, Conan's Wisdom or an archmage's Strength should rise by 4 points via process of osmosis?
Actually, it's six points, not four (and there can be many arguments for a high-wisdom Conan, but that's beside the point), but I see your assertion, and for the most part, you're right. My attempt was to alleviate the burden of carrying around a Headband of Mental Superiority +6 and a Belt of Physical Perfection +6, only realizing afterward that it is VERY unlikely for every level 20 character to get both. I commented on it in this thread I started and I plan on making a system that, instead, can only raise up to 3 ability scores by 6 points.
And while I do see your point in the spell choice for a character like Conan, I think I would still prefer a special power or feat chain that did something similar, rather than relying on magic.
...Catch Phrase,
-Chris
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I don't think there is a correlation between S&S and high level Pathfinder. Conan can do everything Conan does as a 6th level character. The only thing that gets in the way of that is the gm writing up too many other people with levels.
Unless you are reading D&D fiction or Amber, you won't see many protagonists doing things higher than 6th level in almost any story.
Oh, I agree actually. For the most part anyway. Though I'd personally peg Conan as more like 7th or 8th just because of some of the really impressive stuff he does. He might be as high as 9th, but that's pushing it. I was just using him as an example. :)
Though there are series where that is very much not the case, I mean the Malazan Book of the Fallen comes immediately to mind, though I guess that's sort of D&D fiction in a way, as do various other fantasy series I've read.
Actually, it's six points, not four (and there can be many arguments for a high-wisdom Conan, but that's beside the point), but I see your assertion, and for the most part, you're right. My attempt was to alleviate the burden of carrying around a Headband of Mental Superiority +6 and a Belt of Physical Perfection +6, only realizing afterward that it is VERY unlikely for every level 20 character to get both.
Yeah, that was bascially the issue. And I said +4 because there's no way Conan's more than 13th level...and I was continuing to use him as an example.
I commented on it in this thread I started and I plan on making a system that, instead, can only raise up to 3 ability scores by 6 points.
Hmmm. That definitely works a lot better. It still sits wrong with me on some fundamental level I can't readily define, but that's a purely subjective matter, objectively it looks quite good and workable.
And while I do see your point in the spell choice for a character like Conan, I think I would still prefer a special power or feat chain that did something similar, rather than relying on magic.
Eh, they're Spell-Like abilities which means that, while technically magic in that they won't work in an anti-magic field, they don't require components or anything, they're just something you do.