What's the real value of Mithril Armour. In other words, how much would it have to cost for you to consider other materials for armour at higher levels?
At the moment, the cost to make light/medium/heavy armour out of mithril is 1000/4000/9000. Almost every build I see uses mithril armour as soon as it can be purchased (mostly due to the fact that it is considered one class lighter than normal). Would you still spend the money on it if it cost double? What about five times the cost?
As 5x would be more expensive than admantine (IIRC) that's probably out. And it's value in comparison to magical armor dosent hold up 45K added to heavy armor is what +4?
TBH if it was more expensive than it is currently I would never even consider it for a character.
|
It really depends on the character. If the character is a spellcaster, or relies on their Dex for a good portion of their AC, then yes, mithril is good stuff. Note though, that while Heavy armor is treated as Medium armor for movement, etc., you still need Heavy Armor proficiency in order to wear it without penalty. Same for the Medium>Light adjustment.
But for a fighter type wearing full plate, adamantine, though pricier (5k/10k/15k), is a nice option. the DR 1 /2 /3 is a nice benefit, and your armor, if directly targeted is harder to rend (133% standard HP for the armor).
Druids ... welll ... Dragonhide isn't really that great (and I would think dragons may take umbrage with someone wearing the skin of one of their cousins), and Darkwood has it's benefit of lower armor check penalties, but if you want more than a shield, you made need to debate with your GM.
Interesting question Tem. Although I think you'll find it's less of "when would you not buy it?" as "when is it worth buying if it costs X?"
For light armor, mithril shirt is really the only one purchased. Mithril studded leather is possible, but complicated, leather/padded are out. For the shirt, it gives you:
+15 to light load (15 lbs lighter)
+1 to all Str/Dex based skills (lower ACP)
+2 AC (if your Dex is 22).
Min Total (adding 50% for 'secondary' affects): 5800 gp
For medium armor, again the most common will be mithril breastplate, except possibly for bards and rogues as elven chain counts as light armor for proficiency in addition to everything else. Both provide:
+15 to +20 to light load
+2 to all Str/Dex based skills
+2 AC (if Dex is 20)
+10 to +20 movement (20 if hasted/fly'd)
Min Total (adding 50% for 'secondary' affects): 12850 gp
For heavy armor, again, very unlikely to see anything except full plate, which provides:
+25 to medium load
+2 to all Str/Dex based skills
+2 AC (if Dex is 20)
[3rd-6th level Fighters only] +10 to +20 movement (20 if hasted/fly'd)
Min Total (adding 50% for 'secondary' affects): 10000 gp (13000 for 3rd-6th level fighters)
The bonus to AC is the variable here, since the replacement cost depends on what else you already have. If this is your only AC item, and the armor isn't even magic, it's very cheap to replace. If you've already got +3 everything, it's rather more costly.
For instance, with +2 armor, and +1 ring & amulet, two AC is worth 10k (armor +2 to +3, and dusty rose prism ioun stone). So that adds 6000 to each of the values above.
If you have +4 armor, +2 ring & amulet, and already have a dusty rose, two AC is worth 19k, adding +15000 to the values above.
So the "yes it's worth it" points for 2X and 5X, when you already have +X rings/amulets and +(X+1) armor (and sufficient Dex) are:
Armor: 2X/ 5X/(5X, 20 Dex)
Light : +0 / +0/ +1
Mediu: +0 / +1
Heavy:+1*/ +5
*: Is an equivalent option when armor is +3, ring/amulet are +1, and have dusty rose.
So except for x5 on Heavy Armor, it's pretty much always worth it.
It's interesting to note that adamantine armour is priced at 5K/10K/15K which uses a different scale of growth than the 1K/4K/9K of mithril. Since mithril gets the most use out of the light and medium armour, perhaps it would be best to leave the top price the same, but then change the relative scale. That way, mithril armour should cost 3K/6K/9K which is still a terrific deal for many builds. You could even go as high as 4K/8K/12K and stay cheaper than adamantine. At least by doing this, not everyone and their dog will have mithril shirts or mithril breastplates.
I'm leaning towards the 4K/8K/12K pricing. That way, a non-magical mithril shirt costs about the same as a +2 chain shirt but a +2 mithril shirt costs about the same as a +3 chain shirt. It makes the choice a little less clear at the point where such things are affordable for characters.
...a great breakdown...
The only thing I would add is you can sleep in medium mithril armor without penalty, and sleep in heavy mithril armor without penalty if you have the Endurance feat.
...a great breakdown...The only thing I would add is you can sleep in medium mithril armor without penalty, and sleep in heavy mithril armor without penalty if you have the Endurance feat.
Oh nice point - completely missed that (and thank you).
I'm leaning towards the 4K/8K/12K pricing. That way, a non-magical mithril shirt costs about the same as a +2 chain shirt but a +2 mithril shirt costs about the same as a +3 chain shirt. It makes the choice a little less clear at the point where such things are affordable for characters.
If it was me I'd go 3/6/9 but I do agree it scales a tad wonky comapred to adamantine either 3/6/9 or 4/8/12 way seems like a reasonable way to lower the prevalence.
My problem is that Mithral is basically the 'special material' of choice for any and all armor.
As far as light armor goes, there is no reason not to buy it. A mithral chain shirt is better than any other light armor. Yes, padded has a higher max dex bonus, but it also has 3 points less of armor bonus. Oh, and a mithral chain shirt (non-magical) is also cheaper than any magical light armor. Why would you NOT use it?
If you reach the point where your dex bonus is causing problems, you will want to switch to Celestial Armor. Which has always annoyed me, because it's another one of those 'super-special armors which doesn't follow the regular rules' yet it's a staple of the inventories of high-level dex-based characters.
On the other hand, making anything BUT armor out of mithral is ridiculously expensive. For instance, a mithral greatsword costs 4000 gp, since I believe one is supposed to calculate the cost based on weight before reducing it by half. It's just silly.
Even when they tried to make some special materials for leather armors (in Races of the Wild), they still failed miserably. Because none of those materials were as good as mithral.
I guess it's sort of true to Tolkien (although I never did understand why D&D changed the spelling), in that Frodo's chain shirt was super-awesome and all. But then it was also priceless and essentially unique, so...
/rant
Very simple, it's not every campaign world where mithril armor is as easy to obtain as leather.
Well, that's the point isn't it? If an item is relatively rare, shouldn't its price depend on what people are willing to pay for it? That's exactly why I think it should cost more than what is stated in the rules.
Well, that's the point isn't it? If an item is relatively rare, shouldn't its price depend on what people are willing to pay for it? That's exactly why I think it should cost more than what is stated in the rules.
Very simple, it's not every campaign world where mithril armor is as easy to obtain as leather.
Yes, but even at 1000 GP it is well beyond the average persons dreams of avarice. You are now problematizing the issue of the game economy being well... FUBAR.
Yes, but even at 1000 GP it is well beyond the average persons dreams of avarice. You are now problematizing the issue of the game economy being well... FUBAR.
I'm not trying to say anything about the economy from an average person's point of view. The problem (as pointed out by others here as well) is that for the listed price, it is *the* material of choice for just about every character out there. That is to say, everyone who can afford the listed price buys it as soon as possible. I would rather have it priced where people have more than one viable choice (or at least a harder choice) when deciding on the type of armour they want for their character.
LazarX:
If mithral is that rare and unobtainable, it must surely be more expensive. That's kind of a feature of how these things work. It doesn't make sense to have something be extremely desirable, extremely rare, and also inexpensive.
And mithral (particularly for light armor) is not very expensive. There are wealth by level guidelines indicating the level of wealth available to PCs. By these rules, a mithral chain shirt is easily available to any 4th level character. If you want to restrict the availability of wealth to PCs that's certainly your prerogative as a DM, but the balance of the system is based on certain wealth being available to the players, and it's no simple thing to mess with that. I would personally love a way of making characters less dependent on 'toys', and I would direct you to the significant threads dedicated to precisely that issue.
Regarding Kle's point:
Of course some materials are simply better than others, which is why weapons are generally made of steel rather than plain iron or bronze. However, when we're dealing with mithral (and adamantine, cold iron, etc), we're throwing in a whole bunch of NEW materials. My problem is that they do not seem well balanced compared with other ways of improving items.
I guess part of what bothers me is that rogues and bards are (once they reach 4th level) always worse off wearing leather or studded leather armor (never mind padded) compared with a mithral chain shirt. And I guess that doesn't seem terribly 'sneaky' and 'roguish' to me.
What I'm suggesting is making mithral more expensive and perhaps coming up with some special leather materials which would actually be comparable in performance.
1000 GP is about 3-4 years of full income for a middle class person in a standard game world (i.e., who takes 10 with a single rank in a craft or professional skill). Accordingly, it's as expensive corresponding to a modern middle class person as a house you can afford to mortgage to purchase. That's about right in my estimation.
It's like 30 years for a lower class worker who makes a silver a day.
So It's not "worth more than the entire Shire" as in Tolkien; but is comparable to the single most expensive purchase the average person will ever make.
Which of course is the issue with adventurers having order of magnitude more wealth than all but the richest nobles/ merchants.
Comparing the cost of mithral to what 'ordinary' people have access to is pointless. What's relevant is what the PCs have access to. And my point is that a mithral chain shirt is cheaper than any +1 light armor, while also being better in every way.