Why such hate for dinosaur animal companions or dinos in general in RPGS? I'm seein a lot of dino hate on these boards.
Personally, if it fits the concept of the character and if he has a good enough backstory, i'll allow it.
Heh... it's not that I hate dinosaurs, it's that I hate predictable cheesy character builds that all pick the same animal companion because it's considered the "optimized AC" whether it makes any sense for the character in question to have ever even heard of dinosaurs in the first place.
If your campaign is based in the middle of a Cretaceous swamp with roaming Tyrannosaurs and Stegosaurs having daily epic battles to the death, then fine, have your velociraptor animal companion. But if you've only read about dinosaurs in "Druid Geographic Monthly" then having a dinosaur as your companion is just silly. And creating a backstory for the specific purpose of gaining a velociraptor is just munchkining.
That's my beef.
Arguing that something doesn't belong in a fantasy game has always been a tad silly IMHO. For me, it all depends on the flavor that the GM wants for his campaign world.
Not every GM wants an Asiatic flavor, so ninjas, samurai, and monks might go straight out the window.
I know for sure a lot of them wouldn't want a Jurassic Park in their campaign world either.
Heh... it's not that I hate dinosaurs, it's that I hate predictable cheesy character builds that all pick the same animal companion because it's considered the "optimized AC" whether it makes any sense for the character in question to have ever even heard of dinosaurs in the first place.
If your campaign is based in the middle of a Cretaceous swamp with roaming Tyrannosaurs and Stegosaurs having daily epic battles to the death, then fine, have your velociraptor animal companion. But if you've only read about dinosaurs in "Druid Geographic Monthly" then having a dinosaur as your companion is just silly. And creating a backstory for the specific purpose of gaining a velociraptor is just munchkining.
That's my beef.
What if they chose something like the stegosaurus of the thing with the bludgeoning tail? Something not "optimal"
What if they chose something like the stegosaurus of the thing with the bludgeoning tail? Something not "optimal"
I'd still have the issues with suspending disbelief. And there are some who consider those "optimal" for other reasons.
But don't worry about it. I had the same issue with the proto-human apes in 3.5 where every druid had one as an animal companion and stayed wild-shaped into one 24x7 so they could munchkinize the use of armor and weapons intended for humanoids...
Those sorts of things just sort of grate on my nerves for some reason... It's like any druid (like mine) who has a boring old mountain lion animal companion gets snickers at the annual druid ball and all the other druids asking "didn't you get the memo?"
What if they chose something like the stegosaurus of the thing with the bludgeoning tail? Something not "optimal"I'd still have the issues with suspending disbelief. And there are some who consider those "optimal" for other reasons.
But don't worry about it. I had the same issue with the proto-human apes in 3.5 where every druid had one as an animal companion and stayed wild-shaped into one 24x7 so they could munchkinize the use of armor and weapons intended for humanoids...
Those sorts of things just sort of grate on my nerves for some reason... It's like any druid (like mine) who has a boring old mountain lion animal companion gets snickers at the annual druid ball and all the other druids asking "didn't you get the memo?"
Well the cats can still be munchkinized. Why not allow an optimized velociraptor?
Would you allow my character concept of a druid whose companion is a T-Rex who wears full plate? Note that every feat the companion has by 5th level is an armor proficiency feat and that's just so he looks awesome along with being protected. Not really useful combat feats like power attack or anything like that
I'd still have the issues with suspending disbelief. And there are some who consider those "optimal" for other reasons.
But don't worry about it. I had the same issue with the proto-human apes in 3.5 where every druid had one as an animal companion and stayed wild-shaped into one 24x7 so they could munchkinize the use of armor and weapons intended for humanoids...
Those sorts of things just sort of grate on my nerves for some reason... It's like any druid (like mine) who has a boring old mountain lion animal companion gets snickers at the annual druid ball and all the other druids asking "didn't you get the memo?"
Mountain lion is next on the list for optimal especially at higher levels, so someone like yourself might call you out for being a munchkin too "your not a mountain druid so why do you have a mountain lion??" same diff. no one ever picks crocodiles, bears, and boars though :(
Mountain lion is next on the list for optimal especially at higher levels, so someone like yourself might call you out for being a munchkin too "your not a mountain druid so why do you have a mountain lion??" same diff. no one ever picks crocodiles, bears, and boars though :(
I'd still have the issues with suspending disbelief. And there are some who consider those "optimal" for other reasons.
But don't worry about it. I had the same issue with the proto-human apes in 3.5 where every druid had one as an animal companion and stayed wild-shaped into one 24x7 so they could munchkinize the use of armor and weapons intended for humanoids...
Those sorts of things just sort of grate on my nerves for some reason... It's like any druid (like mine) who has a boring old mountain lion animal companion gets snickers at the annual druid ball and all the other druids asking "didn't you get the memo?"
Mountain lions are fluffed leopards, at least in my druid's case. In the campaign my druid is in she started with a wolf, but the wolf was lost in a fight in a mountain range far from her home area, on a months-long quest. When she performed the ritual to summon a new animal companion, the GM gave me a list of local AC animals, which included bear and mountain lion, but not wolf. So she picked mountain lion. She would have picked wolf had the GM allowed it.
Still, I like the mountain lion and utilize its abilities when it is necessary, but I tend not to pounce in every fight since it is so devastating. Since my druid is an archer druid I'm pretty sure you wouldn't seriously call me a munchkin gamer, at least in this campaign.
What she will do when she finally completes the quest and returns home is up in the air. I'm not sure if she will keep the mountain lion or go back to a wolf. But I will do what I think SHE would do, that you can be sure of.
What if they chose something like the stegosaurus of the thing with the bludgeoning tail? Something not "optimal"I'd still have the issues with suspending disbelief. And there are some who consider those "optimal" for other reasons.
But don't worry about it. I had the same issue with the proto-human apes in 3.5 where every druid had one as an animal companion and stayed wild-shaped into one 24x7 so they could munchkinize the use of armor and weapons intended for humanoids...
Those sorts of things just sort of grate on my nerves for some reason... It's like any druid (like mine) who has a boring old mountain lion animal companion gets snickers at the annual druid ball and all the other druids asking "didn't you get the memo?"
Well the cats can still be munchkinized. Why not allow an optimized velociraptor?
Would you allow my character concept of a druid whose companion is a T-Rex who wears full plate? Note that every feat the companion has by 5th level is an armor proficiency feat and that's just so he looks awesome along with being protected. Not really useful combat feats like power attack or anything like that
Did your druid grow up in a Cretaceous swamp surrounded by T-Rexes engaged in deadly combat on a daily basis with Stegasaurs? Does your druid currently spend most of his/her time roaming around in that same swamp or is she/he romping around with an armored T-Rex through typical medieval towns surrounded by deer-filled forests with wolves and the odd grizzly bear?
I would have to say that my initial reaction is "Oh yeah, here's another one." But maybe you are the rare druid player who actually has a reasonable, believable, sustainable case to make for having a T-Rex as an animal companion.
Mountain lion is next on the list for optimal especially at higher levels, so someone like yourself might call you out for being a munchkin too "your not a mountain druid so why do you have a mountain lion??" same diff. no one ever picks crocodiles, bears, and boars though :(
I'd still have the issues with suspending disbelief. And there are some who consider those "optimal" for other reasons.
But don't worry about it. I had the same issue with the proto-human apes in 3.5 where every druid had one as an animal companion and stayed wild-shaped into one 24x7 so they could munchkinize the use of armor and weapons intended for humanoids...
Those sorts of things just sort of grate on my nerves for some reason... It's like any druid (like mine) who has a boring old mountain lion animal companion gets snickers at the annual druid ball and all the other druids asking "didn't you get the memo?"
Mountain lions are fluffed leopards, at least in my druid's case. In the campaign my druid is in she started with a wolf, but the wolf was lost in a fight in a mountain range far from her home area, on a months-long quest. When she performed the ritual to summon a new animal companion, the GM gave me a list of local AC animals, which included bear and mountain lion, but not wolf. So she picked mountain lion. She would have picked wolf had the GM allowed it.
Still, I like the mountain lion and utilize its abilities when it is necessary, but I tend not to pounce in every fight since it is so devastating. Since my druid is an archer druid I'm pretty sure you wouldn't seriously call me a munchkin gamer, at least in this campaign.
What she will do when she finally completes the quest and returns home is up in the air. I'm not sure if she will keep the mountain lion or go back to a wolf. But I will do what I think SHE would do, that you can be sure of.
So what if my druid finds a large, abandoned egg in the rainforest after an adventure in which his wolf dies as well? Would he not take the egg and care for it? if it hatched into a Tyrannosaur would he not raise it? Companion. Boom.
So what if my druid finds a large, abandoned egg in the...Mountain lion is next on the list for optimal especially at higher levels, so someone like yourself might call you out for being a munchkin too "your not a mountain druid so why do you have a mountain lion??" same diff. no one ever picks crocodiles, bears, and boars though :(
I'd still have the issues with suspending disbelief. And there are some who consider those "optimal" for other reasons.
But don't worry about it. I had the same issue with the proto-human apes in 3.5 where every druid had one as an animal companion and stayed wild-shaped into one 24x7 so they could munchkinize the use of armor and weapons intended for humanoids...
Those sorts of things just sort of grate on my nerves for some reason... It's like any druid (like mine) who has a boring old mountain lion animal companion gets snickers at the annual druid ball and all the other druids asking "didn't you get the memo?"
Mountain lions are fluffed leopards, at least in my druid's case. In the campaign my druid is in she started with a wolf, but the wolf was lost in a fight in a mountain range far from her home area, on a months-long quest. When she performed the ritual to summon a new animal companion, the GM gave me a list of local AC animals, which included bear and mountain lion, but not wolf. So she picked mountain lion. She would have picked wolf had the GM allowed it.
Still, I like the mountain lion and utilize its abilities when it is necessary, but I tend not to pounce in every fight since it is so devastating. Since my druid is an archer druid I'm pretty sure you wouldn't seriously call me a munchkin gamer, at least in this campaign.
What she will do when she finally completes the quest and returns home is up in the air. I'm not sure if she will keep the mountain lion or go back to a wolf. But I will do what I think SHE would do, that you can be sure of.
"stranger things have happened, albeit not often"
-Dogbert
Mountain lions are fluffed leopards, at least in my druid's case. In the campaign my druid is in she started with a wolf, but the wolf was lost in a fight in a mountain range far from her home area, on a months-long quest. When she performed the ritual to summon a new animal companion, the GM gave me a list of local AC animals, which included bear and mountain lion, but not wolf. So she picked mountain lion. She would have picked wolf had the GM allowed it.
Still, I like the mountain lion and utilize its abilities when it is necessary, but I tend not to pounce in every fight since it is so devastating. Since my druid is an archer druid I'm pretty sure you wouldn't seriously call me a munchkin gamer, at least in this campaign.
What she will do when she finally completes the quest and returns home is up in the air. I'm not sure if she will keep the mountain lion or go back to a wolf. But I will do what I think SHE would do, that you can be sure of.
Your post being completely unforgiving to dinosaur owners doesn't give time for this kind of explanation. Just like your post did someone will jump to conclusions. I don't particularly care about optimizing so im willing to listen.
So what if my druid finds a large, abandoned egg in the rainforest after an adventure in which his wolf dies as well? Would he not take the egg and care for it? if it hatched into a Tyrannosaur would he not raise it? Companion. Boom.
So what if my druid finds a large, abandoned egg in the...
So is that what you are saying happened?
And you never once looked into the bestiary and asked your GM "Gee, what if I just happened to find a T-rex egg in the rainforest?"
Not very convincing so far, I'm afraid.
So what if my druid finds a large, abandoned egg in the rainforest after an adventure in which his wolf dies as well? Would he not take the egg and care for it? if it hatched into a Tyrannosaur would he not raise it? Companion. Boom.
So what if my druid finds a large, abandoned egg in the...So is that what you are saying happened?
And you never once looked into the bestiary and asked your GM "Gee, what if I just happened to find a T-rex egg in the rainforest?"
Not very convincing so far, I'm afraid.
No I'm not saying that's what happened, I'm saying what if that happened? Would that not be the reaction a druid would have? Raise it? Befriend it?
Your post being completely unforgiving to dinosaur owners doesn't give time for this kind of explanation. Just like your post did someone will jump to conclusions. I don't particularly care about optimizing so im willing to listen.
My post is not remotely "completely unforgiving to dinosaur owners." If your druid grew up in a Cretaceous swamp surrounded by voracious dinosaurs on a daily basis, and pretty much still lives in one today, then I'm fine with it.
It's the T-Rexes roaming around old London town that give me the giggle fits.
Your post being completely unforgiving to dinosaur owners doesn't give time for this kind of explanation. Just like your post did someone will jump to conclusions. I don't particularly care about optimizing so im willing to listen.
My post is not remotely "completely unforgiving to dinosaur owners." If your druid grew up in a Cretaceous swamp surrounded by voracious dinosaurs on a daily basis, and pretty much still lives in one today, then I'm fine with it.
It's the T-Rexes roaming around old London town that give me the giggle fits.
And giant gorillas have no place in modern New York City...
It's the T-Rexes roaming around old London town that give me the giggle fits.
And bears, mountain lions, and other dangerous animal companions are supposed to be in "old London?"
No I'm not saying that's what happened, I'm saying what if that happened? Would that not be the reaction a druid would have? Raise it? Befriend it?So what if my druid finds a large, abandoned egg in the rainforest after an adventure in which his wolf dies as well? Would he not take the egg and care for it? if it hatched into a Tyrannosaur would he not raise it? Companion. Boom.
So what if my druid finds a large, abandoned egg in the...So is that what you are saying happened?
And you never once looked into the bestiary and asked your GM "Gee, what if I just happened to find a T-rex egg in the rainforest?"
Not very convincing so far, I'm afraid.
Return it to it's own kind and allow it to grow and live like a T-Rex should?
I will tell you this. If my druid found a T-Rex egg in a rainforest her first reaction would not be to raise it as an animal companion. Her first reaction would be to allow nature to take its course. Since she would almost certainly HAVE an animal companion when encountering the egg, the LAST thing on her mind would be "Hmm... how do I get rid of old Fido here and arrange to have a shiny new, armor-clad T-Rex companion that will be the envy of the harvest moon druid parade?"
And bears, mountain lions, and other dangerous animal companions are supposed to be in "old London?"
It's the T-Rexes roaming around old London town that give me the giggle fits.
A mountain lion was sighted by a couple of female joggers in Denver this week. A couple of years ago a mountain lion killed and ate a jogger outside of Boulder Colorado.
So.
Yes.
Your post being completely unforgiving to dinosaur owners doesn't give time for this kind of explanation. Just like your post did someone will jump to conclusions. I don't particularly care about optimizing so im willing to listen.
My post is not remotely "completely unforgiving to dinosaur owners." If your druid grew up in a Cretaceous swamp surrounded by voracious dinosaurs on a daily basis, and pretty much still lives in one today, then I'm fine with it.
It's the T-Rexes roaming around old London town that give me the giggle fits.
mountain lions don't just show up in any old mountain you know. If your restrictions on one group of animals is so specific then why not for the rest?
Raptors especially are smart enough to roam away from other dinosaurs to find easier prey, and guess who the town will likely send out to handle an unknown creature? a guy with a sword or the guy that hugs bears?
Your post being completely unforgiving to dinosaur owners doesn't give time for this kind of explanation. Just like your post did someone will jump to conclusions. I don't particularly care about optimizing so im willing to listen.
My post is not remotely "completely unforgiving to dinosaur owners." If your druid grew up in a Cretaceous swamp surrounded by voracious dinosaurs on a daily basis, and pretty much still lives in one today, then I'm fine with it.
It's the T-Rexes roaming around old London town that give me the giggle fits.
mountain lions don't just show up in any old mountain you know. If your restrictions on one group of animals is so specific then why not for the rest?
Raptors especially are smart enough to roam away from other dinosaurs to find easier prey, and guess who the town will likely send out to handle an unknown creature? a guy with a sword or the guy that hugs bears?
A guy in my LARP hugs shambling mounds...
And giant gorillas have no place in modern New York City...
Your post being completely unforgiving to dinosaur owners doesn't give time for this kind of explanation. Just like your post did someone will jump to conclusions. I don't particularly care about optimizing so im willing to listen.
My post is not remotely "completely unforgiving to dinosaur owners." If your druid grew up in a Cretaceous swamp surrounded by voracious dinosaurs on a daily basis, and pretty much still lives in one today, then I'm fine with it.
It's the T-Rexes roaming around old London town that give me the giggle fits.
So far as I know, there was only one.
Your post being completely unforgiving to dinosaur owners doesn't give time for this kind of explanation. Just like your post did someone will jump to conclusions. I don't particularly care about optimizing so im willing to listen.
My post is not remotely "completely unforgiving to dinosaur owners." If your druid grew up in a Cretaceous swamp surrounded by voracious dinosaurs on a daily basis, and pretty much still lives in one today, then I'm fine with it.
It's the T-Rexes roaming around old London town that give me the giggle fits.
mountain lions don't just show up in any old mountain you know. If your restrictions on one group of animals is so specific then why not for the rest?
Raptors especially are smart enough to roam away from other dinosaurs to find easier prey, and guess who the town will likely send out to handle an unknown creature? a guy with a sword or the guy that hugs bears?
In the continental USA mountain lions are pretty much indigenous to the entire Rocky Mountain range. Prior to being wiped out they ranged all across North America. So for the most part, on a continent wide basis mountain lions in the real world pretty much showed up on any old mountain.
Also, in case you did not bother to read it, I did not ask for a mountain lion, I asked for an opportunity to perform the AC ritual and my GM gave me a list of available animals in the area. So if you have a beef with that, go talk to my GM.
And bears, mountain lions, and other dangerous animal companions are supposed to be in "old London?"
It's the T-Rexes roaming around old London town that give me the giggle fits.A mountain lion was sighted by a couple of female joggers in Denver this week. A couple of years ago a mountain lion killed and ate a jogger outside of Boulder Colorado.
So.
Yes.
Fair enough. Colorado is very mountainous. However England is not. You specifically mentioned old london, as did I. Do you have an issue with an Ape/Camel/Crocodile/Mountain lion following around a druid in old London?
And my example above specifically stated, although you seemed to ignore it, that my AC had been lost on my previous adventure and the egg was abandoned.
Did your druid grow up in a Cretaceous swamp surrounded by T-Rexes engaged in deadly combat on a daily basis with Stegasaurs? Does your druid currently spend most of his/her time roaming around in that same swamp or is she/he romping around with an armored T-Rex through typical medieval towns surrounded by deer-filled forests with wolves and the odd grizzly bear?
I would have to say that my initial reaction is "Oh yeah, here's another one." But maybe you are the rare druid player who actually has a reasonable, believable, sustainable case to make for having a T-Rex as an animal companion.
There are places in every official setting I've seen that dinosaurs would make sense to have as an animal companion. If someone wanted to be from such a region in any game I played, but the campaign was not in that region, than I would be mroe than willing to allow them a dinosaur companion with the caveat that bringing a dinosaur into civilized lands is going to get you a lot of attention.
Fair enough. Colorado is very mountainous. However England is not. You specifically mentioned old london, as did I. Do you have an issue with an Ape/Camel/Crocodile/Mountain lion following around a druid in old London?
Ape, yes. Since apes are not indigenous to London town, if a campaign was specifically set in Old London, as a GM I would be very unlikely to allow an ape animal companion.
Camel, the same.
Crocodile, the same.
Mountain lion, the same.
I was using "Old London" to represent a typical medieval town setting, that's all.
In terms of a typical fantasy setting for a typical D&D or Pathfinder game my answers would be:
Ape - that's a stretch, but I might be talked into it.
Camel - Fine, they were used as pack animals by traders and it is reasonable to assume some escaped and bred in various areas across a wide area where trade routes intersect.
Crocodile - For some unsupportable reason I'd have less problem with this than an ape.
Mountain lion - no poblem at all.
And my example above specifically stated, although you seemed to ignore it, that my AC had been lost on my previous adventure and the egg was abandoned.
Fair enough. But you also admitted this was totally made up, so tell me the real circumstances of your acquisition of your armor clad T-Rex and I'll comment on my ability to suspend disbelief and suppress giggles.
There are places in every official setting I've seen that dinosaurs would make sense to have as an animal companion. If someone wanted to be from such a region in any game I played, but the campaign was not in that region, than I would be mroe than willing to allow them a dinosaur companion with the caveat that bringing a dinosaur into civilized lands is going to get you a lot of attention.Did your druid grow up in a Cretaceous swamp surrounded by T-Rexes engaged in deadly combat on a daily basis with Stegasaurs? Does your druid currently spend most of his/her time roaming around in that same swamp or is she/he romping around with an armored T-Rex through typical medieval towns surrounded by deer-filled forests with wolves and the odd grizzly bear?
I would have to say that my initial reaction is "Oh yeah, here's another one." But maybe you are the rare druid player who actually has a reasonable, believable, sustainable case to make for having a T-Rex as an animal companion.
OK, this is at least a reasonable approach to the issue. I'd probably end up doing something similar.
One thing I would definitely bring to the fore is the rapacious appetite of a warm blooded predatory beast the size of a Mack Truck.
Fair enough. Colorado is very mountainous. However England is not. You specifically mentioned old london, as did I. Do you have an issue with an Ape/Camel/Crocodile/Mountain lion following around a druid in old London?
And my example above specifically stated, although you seemed to ignore it, that my AC had been lost on my previous adventure and the egg was abandoned.
In England you can have wolf, bear and boar as animal companion...
But I, has a GM tend to restrict animal companion to the original region of the player. Though I can let pass exceptions with good explanations...
Oh, and I love the iconic druid, if I make a druid one day it will be a green gnome with a white tiger :)
And my example above specifically stated, although you seemed to ignore it, that my AC had been lost on my previous adventure and the egg was abandoned.Fair enough. But you also admitted this was totally made up, so tell me the real circumstances of your acquisition of your armor clad T-Rex and I'll comment on my ability to suspend disbelief and suppress giggles.
I didn't say it was made up, I said it was an example of a chain of events that could possibly lead to a dinosaur AC.
Dinosaurs lived in extreme environments, not unlike our modern day rainforests. In a fantasy setting, a rainforest could quite possibly still have dinosaurs in them. If my druid lived in a rainforest before meeting the party, it is entirely possible that I could have a dinosaur companion, is it not?
Fair enough. Colorado is very mountainous. However England is not. You specifically mentioned old london, as did I. Do you have an issue with an Ape/Camel/Crocodile/Mountain lion following around a druid in old London?
Ape, yes. Since apes are not indigenous to London town, if a campaign was specifically set in Old London, as a GM I would be very unlikely to allow an ape animal companion.
Camel, the same.
Crocodile, the same.
Mountain lion, the same.
I was using "Old London" to represent a typical medieval town setting, that's all.
In terms of a typical fantasy setting for a typical D&D or Pathfinder game my answers would be:
Ape - that's a stretch, but I might be talked into it.
Camel - Fine, they were used as pack animals by traders and it is reasonable to assume some escaped and bred in various areas across a wide area where trade routes intersect.
Crocodile - For some unsupportable reason I'd have less problem with this than an ape.
Mountain lion - no poblem at all.And my example above specifically stated, although you seemed to ignore it, that my AC had been lost on my previous adventure and the egg was abandoned.Fair enough. But you also admitted this was totally made up, so tell me the real circumstances of your acquisition of your armor clad T-Rex and I'll comment on my ability to suspend disbelief and suppress giggles.
Your typical fantasy setting has dinosaurs as common as animals (they were in the random monster encounters as recently as 3.5, strike that, just checked, pathfinder).
And my example above specifically stated, although you seemed to ignore it, that my AC had been lost on my previous adventure and the egg was abandoned.Fair enough. But you also admitted this was totally made up, so tell me the real circumstances of your acquisition of your armor clad T-Rex and I'll comment on my ability to suspend disbelief and suppress giggles.I didn't say it was made up, I said it was an example of a chain of events that could possibly lead to a dinosaur AC.
Dinosaurs lived in extreme environments, not unlike our modern day rainforests. In a fantasy setting, a rainforest could quite possibly still have dinosaurs in them. If my druid lived in a rainforest before meeting the party, it is entirely possible that I could have a dinosaur companion, is it not?
Are you under the huge misconception that T-Rexes lived in rainforests?
T-Rexes lived in huge temperate fern forests populated by massive herds of semi-aquatic building-sized herbivores who are presumed to have spent most of their time browsing in (relatively) shallow lakes and ponds.
You would be more likely to find a T-Rex in the African Savannah than the Brazilian rainforest. Do you have any idea how hard it would be for a creature the size of a Mack Truck to move around in an area so densely overgrown that you have to hack your way through it with a machete?
Your typical fantasy setting has dinosaurs as common as animals (they were in the random monster encounters as recently as 3.5, strike that, just checked, pathfinder).
I have played this game for almost 30 years. I have had one, count them ONE campaign that included dinosaurs. And those had been imported by a powerful magic user and were not native to the area.
One.
And my example above specifically stated, although you seemed to ignore it, that my AC had been lost on my previous adventure and the egg was abandoned.Fair enough. But you also admitted this was totally made up, so tell me the real circumstances of your acquisition of your armor clad T-Rex and I'll comment on my ability to suspend disbelief and suppress giggles.I didn't say it was made up, I said it was an example of a chain of events that could possibly lead to a dinosaur AC.
Dinosaurs lived in extreme environments, not unlike our modern day rainforests. In a fantasy setting, a rainforest could quite possibly still have dinosaurs in them. If my druid lived in a rainforest before meeting the party, it is entirely possible that I could have a dinosaur companion, is it not?
Are you under the huge misconception that T-Rexes lived in rainforests?
T-Rexes lived in huge temperate fern forests populated by massive herds of semi-aquatic building-sized herbivores who are presumed to have spent most of their time browsing in (relatively) shallow lakes and ponds.
You would be more likely to find a T-Rex in the African Savannah than the Brazilian rainforest. Do you have any idea how hard it would be for a creature the size of a Mack Truck to move around in an area so densely overgrown that you have to hack your way through it with a machete?
Elephants live in rain forests, in real life.
Your typical fantasy setting has dinosaurs as common as animals (they were in the random monster encounters as recently as 3.5, strike that, just checked, pathfinder).I have played this game for almost 30 years. I have had one, count them ONE campaign that included dinosaurs. And those had been imported by a powerful magic user and were not native to the area.
One.
I might have had one that DIDN'T have dinosaurs in 13+ years. They have been in the books and random encounter tables since 1e.
This is a fantasy setting with unicorns, dragons, and demons. Why are dinosaurs so unusual?
Elephants live in rain forests, in real life.
And my example above specifically stated, although you seemed to ignore it, that my AC had been lost on my previous adventure and the egg was abandoned.Fair enough. But you also admitted this was totally made up, so tell me the real circumstances of your acquisition of your armor clad T-Rex and I'll comment on my ability to suspend disbelief and suppress giggles.I didn't say it was made up, I said it was an example of a chain of events that could possibly lead to a dinosaur AC.
Dinosaurs lived in extreme environments, not unlike our modern day rainforests. In a fantasy setting, a rainforest could quite possibly still have dinosaurs in them. If my druid lived in a rainforest before meeting the party, it is entirely possible that I could have a dinosaur companion, is it not?
Are you under the huge misconception that T-Rexes lived in rainforests?
T-Rexes lived in huge temperate fern forests populated by massive herds of semi-aquatic building-sized herbivores who are presumed to have spent most of their time browsing in (relatively) shallow lakes and ponds.
You would be more likely to find a T-Rex in the African Savannah than the Brazilian rainforest. Do you have any idea how hard it would be for a creature the size of a Mack Truck to move around in an area so densely overgrown that you have to hack your way through it with a machete?
As did Sumatran Rhinos, which are upwards of 1500 lbs in weight and 9 feet long. Many dinosaurs were around that size.
This is a phantasy setting with unicorns, dragons, and demons. Why are dinosaurs so unusual?
Because they are. My characters in 30 years have encountered 100 times as many dragons as dinosaurs (and that's actually a conservative estimate). 100 times as many demons. Maybe 10 times as many unicorns.
Part of the reason is because mythological fantasy creatures are more, well, fantastical than even dinosaurs.
Look, I have dinosaur miniatures, and I have put dinosaurs into my own campaigns on occasion, but I've never had a full Cretaceous or Jurassic ecology set up, and that's what it would take to support T-Rexes. You simply aren't going to have Mack Truck sized carnivores unless you have herds of building sized herbivores, and it's pretty hard to visualize towns and settlements in areas where a casual walk to the lake by a Diplodocus will wipe out the entire village.
But if someone wants to run a campaign that is based in such an environment then fine. As I said, it's the armored T-Rexes roaming around medieval temperate forest villages populated primarily with bears, deer and common fauna that I find hard to stomach.
One thing Jurassic Park got right is that dinosaurs would almost certainly die out if they lived in a modern climate. Plants of today are much harder to digest than the plants the herd dinosaurs fed on, and without plentiful herd dinosaurs to feed on, T-Rexes aren't going to survive long. So the "T-Rex in a rainforest" thing is completely unsupportable, unless the "rainforest" was a Cretaceous fern forest, and then you wouln't find ruminants there because they wouldn't need multiple stomachs to process their food.
Anyway... it's late. This has been fun, but we aren't going to agree. Those of you who want your armor clad T-Rexes for animal companions because they are just so awesomely awesome are welcome to them. I might even allow one in one of my campaigns, but it would take one hell of an argument by the player. There might just be a player who could pull it off. But it would be an epic debate first... :)
As did Sumatran Rhinos, which are upwards of 1500 lbs in weight and 9 feet long. Many dinosaurs were around that size.
Elephants live in rain forests, in real life.
And what is the largest predator in those rainforests?
Tigers.
There are places in every official setting I've seen that dinosaurs would make sense to have as an animal companion. If someone wanted to be from such a region in any game I played, but the campaign was not in that region, than I would be mroe than willing to allow them a dinosaur companion with the caveat that bringing a dinosaur into civilized lands is going to get you a lot of attention.Did your druid grow up in a Cretaceous swamp surrounded by T-Rexes engaged in deadly combat on a daily basis with Stegasaurs? Does your druid currently spend most of his/her time roaming around in that same swamp or is she/he romping around with an armored T-Rex through typical medieval towns surrounded by deer-filled forests with wolves and the odd grizzly bear?
I would have to say that my initial reaction is "Oh yeah, here's another one." But maybe you are the rare druid player who actually has a reasonable, believable, sustainable case to make for having a T-Rex as an animal companion.
OK, this is at least a reasonable approach to the issue. I'd probably end up doing something similar.
One thing I would definitely bring to the fore is the rapacious appetite of a warm blooded predatory beast the size of a Mack Truck.
Agreed on the appetite. A T-Rex would be very problematic. A raptor might or not depending where they try to take it, how they are viewed by the place they get to to start with, and how they treat the people when they get there. Attention can be as good as or as bad as the players make it, so as long they aren't bringing large creature or larger, with the exception of a horse, into civilized areas, I see no reason to automatically penalize them, but they do have to deal with the reactions, both good and bad, that are going to come with having a badger, a crocodile, a dinosaur, or whatever odd creature they feel like having following them around.
A background can be as simple as "I'm a druid from the Mwangi Expanse".
One person's experience not including them, doesn't mean they somehow don't legitimately exist in D&D.
Eberron had Halfling Dino riders. Forgotten Realms had Chult.
Wiki excerpt time:
Dinosaurs have existed in each edition of the Monster manual,[1][2][3][4] and have played a significant role in Dungeons and Dragons since nearly the very beginning. In the 1981 dinosaurs were a major antagonist in the module the Isle of Dread (which was exceptionally widely distributed as it was included with the Dungeons & Dragons Expert Set).[5] Also in the The Bane of Llywelyn, an early first edition Dungeons and Dragon's module featured amazons on Pterosaur-like dinosaurs.
In 1990, the Hollow World Campaign Set for the Hollow World campaign setting was introduced. It "... takes all the best elements of the fantastic adventure fiction of the '30s and '40s (dinosaurs, savage men, lost empires) and marries them to the tropes of Dungeons & Dragons (elves, dwarves, Vance-style magic)".[6]
Dinosaurs continue to play a major role in a number of more recent published adventures and campaign settings. In the 2002 Eberron campaign setting dinosaurs play a major role, [7] and are the primary food source, work animal and mount of the Talenta Halflings.[8]
In 2006, the first part of the Savage Tide Adventure Path was published. These adventures return to the "dinosaur-ridden" Isle of Dread.[9]
In the fourth edition of Dungeons & Dragons dinosaurs are referred to as behemoths and given alternate names.
D&D = "dinosaurs allowed".
Of course a GM can decide that his world doesn't have dinosaurs in it if he wants, that's up to him. That's also homebrew, and neither here nor there for this discussion.
But if you are playing in Golarion, such as when playing an AP, it's not that hard to come up with a dino-friendly background.
. You simply aren't going to have Mack Truck sized carnivores unless you have herds of building sized herbivores
You mean like a dragon?
. You simply aren't going to have Mack Truck sized carnivores unless you have herds of building sized herbivoresYou mean like a dragon?
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. You simply aren't going to have Mack Truck sized carnivores unless you have herds of building sized herbivoresYou mean like a dragon?
+2
This is a phantasy setting with unicorns, dragons, and demons. Why are dinosaurs so unusual?Because they are. My characters in 30 years have encountered 100 times as many dragons as dinosaurs (and that's actually a conservative estimate). 100 times as many demons. Maybe 10 times as many unicorns.
Not to be a big meanie here, but for my own 25 years of gaming (as if that should matter) I have, just to take one example, "encountered 100 times as many" dinosaurs as dragons. In fact dragons are rare and unique encounters in the games I play. I would find common usage of dragons far more offensive then meeting a few dinos.
+2
. You simply aren't going to have Mack Truck sized carnivores unless you have herds of building sized herbivoresYou mean like a dragon?
+3
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The Realm of the Mammoth Lords has dinosaurs too. Fun for Kellid druids of a primitive bent.A background can be as simple as "I'm a druid from the Mwangi Expanse".
Yes it does. I am currently playing a Ranger(beastmaster) from the ares surrounding Tolguth in the Realm of the Mammoth Lords. I would love to eventually get some kind of Mammoth or possibly a dinosaur or 2 but I will roleplay the selection of my animal companion either accepting the animals for the chosen area I am in or possibly not taking anything at all. If I really want a Dino themed companion I might be forced to travel back to his homeland to get one if the campaign permits. But I agree with the line of thinking that taking one because you can and they are bad@ss is crap.
...taking one because you can and they are bad@ss is crap.
...and I think that's a completely valid reason. It completely depends on the game.
But in general I'm with Brassbaboon on this one - I find it ridiculous that a druid should run around with a t-rex, an ape or a tiger in f.ex. a northern cold wasteland. But it totally depends on the setting and the groups' shared notion of that setting.
I have never ever liked dinosaurs in my settings. The dragon as an iconic monster is there for a reason - it is the mythic/folkloric "dinosaur". Having both dragons and dinosaurs in the same setting is simply silly to me.
But others might have it another way, and that's fine with me!
I agree with the idea that if you're going to have a T-rex, you'd better have a helluva plan to feed it. 'Create Food and Drink' spell's just not going to cover it.
Cue song 'Big Lizard' by Dead Milkmen.
Sure I paid a little extra for the barding.
And yes, the barding just happened to be rhino hide armor.
And it's true, the dinosaur was a triceratops.
It's just... well I had the option, thanks to the bestiary 2, to revel in some Dino-Riders nostalgia with a character for a throw-away one-shot session and I jumped at the chance.
It really was pretty glorious. Though I did learn that triceratopses are terrible swimmers and the drowning rules are very, very deadly.
On topic - When I GM for long running campaigns, I agree with brassaboon - I'd prefer the players make effort to respond to the world their characters are in rather than focus on gaming the system. So far, I've been fortunate enough in this regard to have only had players who care more about story than they do about creating the supreme character.
Conversely, for throw away one-shots... if it's in one of the rulebooks on the table and you want to try it, go for it. No matter how little sense it makes.