Hi people,
I've just started Legacy of Fire playing a Gnome Illusionist, and I'd like some suggestions on how to advance him, as well as tips/tricks for play.
The Char so far:
Male Gnome Wizard (Illusionist) 1
Str 8
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 18
Wis 10
Cha 11
Alternate Racial trait: Eternal Hope
Traits: Trickster, Reclaiming your roots
Feats: Effortless Trickery, Scribe Scroll
Opposed schools - Necromancy, Enchantment
Arcane bond: Wand
Typical spell selection:
0: Detect Magic, Mage hand, Spark
1: Silent Image, Color spray, Vanish
Thoughts for future choices so far:
Spell Focus (Illusion), Threatening Illusion.
The rest of the party:
Human Archery Ranger
Human Fighter (going for fighter/rogue)
Human Cavalier
Undine Cleric of Sarenrae
I plan on using my illusions for battlefield control and misdirection, and later to provide flanking through Threatening Illusion. Any tips/comments are welcome.
Anyone?
Looks pretty solid to me.
A sorcerer might also make a good build as I think a high cha and bluff suits a gnome illusionist well and taking a genie or elemental bloodline will also work really well with the plot. Without spoiling the AP, crafting may only be practical during certain sections so part of the wizards advantage over the sorcerer is lessened. But then knowing lots of languages and having good knowledges in history and the planes will help as well.
Ghost sounds is great to compliment silent image and I'd probably still memorise it even with the free one per day.
A little spoilery but alternative racial traits that switch out defensive training and hatred may end up being better.
Going wizard bond or familiar comes down to personal preference but I would say its one of the few games where you can feel non-cheesy about taking the scorpion for the +2 to initiative.
Small Grip
You have no Level 0 attack Spell you need Acid Splash.
I also like the trait Finding Haleen +1 skill point and +1 HP per level. This Adventure path is the only time I can see it being used cause it really strong. But it was made for this path so use it.
Bond item or Familiar?
Well my point of view is Bonded item is super strong and need for new players that do not know how to play. It give you the "O shoot ability" I forgot to prepare this spell to day. Let me get that. But if you think and listen clues set out in the game. This not always needed. Plus I go with idea that all wizard take Scribe Scroll Bonus Feat Level 1, Craft Wondrous item level 3 feat, and Craft Wand Level 5 Bonus feat. So not having that right spell is hard to say it will happen.
I make Scroll each and every day of low level buff and odd ball non-save based DC spell. Pears of Power I end up with about 15 or 20 of them before I end Caster career. Buff the I use all time put it in a wand. Or Attack point and shot type spell. Ie Magic missile, Scorching ray, Acid Arrow. So not having that right spell or running out of spells really is not happening. Having Familiar to use as scry upon or delver touch spell is must have for me. Also they need to be able to fly. That my 2 copper pieces…..
Looks pretty solid to me.
A sorcerer might also make a good build as I think a high cha and bluff suits a gnome illusionist well and taking a genie or elemental bloodline will also work really well with the plot. Without spoiling the AP, crafting may only be practical during certain sections so part of the wizards advantage over the sorcerer is lessened. But then knowing lots of languages and having good knowledges in history and the planes will help as well.
I'm not really planning on doing a lot of crafting anyway, and thematically I like the wizard better, especially because a wizard is more versatile.
Ghost sounds is great to compliment silent image and I'd probably still memorise it even with the free one per day.
I may take Varisian Tattoo (illusion), which gives me 3 extra Ghost Sound/ day. That should do it, would think.
A little spoilery but alternative racial traits that switch out defensive training and hatred may end up being better.
You mean like the Eternal Hope alternate racial trait ;-)
Going wizard bond or familiar comes down to personal preference but I would say its one of the few games where you can feel non-cheesy about taking the scorpion for the +2 to initiative.
Yeah, I waved back and forth on which to pick, but ended up with a wand. It already contains 20 charges of Silent Image, courtesy of the Reclaiming your Past trait.
Small Grip
Huh? Not sure what you mean here.
You have no Level 0 attack Spell you need Acid Splash.
I think I'm good with using the 7 daily Blinding Ray (Illusionist school power) or my crossbow.
I also like the trait Finding Haleen +1 skill point and +1 HP per level. This Adventure path is the only time I can see it being used cause it really strong. But it was made for this path so use it.
GM has specifically nerfed that trait, and besides I like Reclaiming your roots better for RP reasons.
It looks like a solid build to me. I am only familiar with the first book and a half of the AP, but based on that illusions can be quite effective. Are you looking at relying on Vanish for your defense? It looks like you are AC 11 otherwise. You might want to consider Mage Armor, at least on a scroll, for situations that last longer than Vanish, especially areas where you think you might be ambushed.
Gnome Illusionist wizard was pretty much gutted in PF. It now makes far more sense to be a gnome sorcerer or bard illusionist.
But let's just stick with the theme. . .
The familiar is better overall than the arcane bonded item. I know no one believes me, but it's true (: There's all kinds of sneaky ways to use a familiar. An extra spell is good in the hands of a noob, but a familiar in the hands of an experienced player is awesome. But that's just my personal taste.
Silent image is good. Color spray is good. One round of invisibility is kind of meh. It's probably better to have 2 silent images prepared (your feat choice seems to like silent image). Have scrolls of shield, obscuring mist (use against ranged attackers), magic weapon, and protection from evil ready. . .
The Illusion school's first level ability makes a Wizard far, far better at Illusions than a Sorcerer in my opinion. Combine that with Effortless Trickery from Gnomes of Golarion, and you have a really nice way to use Silent Image.
The Illusion school's first level ability makes a Wizard far, far better at Illusions than a Sorcerer in my opinion.
Cha boost on Sorcerer vs. Extended Illusions on Wizard. . . hmm. . .
Considering Effortless Trickery almost completely negates the need for Extended Illusions most of the time (in the later game you get major image which has 3 rounds built in), I still think having a higher ability score is a better option. But it was a bit of hyperbole to say the gnome illusionist was "gutted" -- at least no longer one of the best options for a wizard.
Are you looking at relying on Vanish for your defense? It looks like you are AC 11 otherwise. You might want to consider Mage Armor, at least on a scroll, for situations that last longer than Vanish, especially areas where you think you might be ambushed.
Silent image is good. Color spray is good. One round of invisibility is kind of meh. It's probably better to have 2 silent images prepared (your feat choice seems to like silent image). Have scrolls of shield, obscuring mist (use against ranged attackers), magic weapon, and protection from evil ready. . .
I have several scrolls handy, and will be sure to expand my collection every chance I get. Vanish lasts an extra round, thanks to the Trickster trait.
The Illusion school's first level ability makes a Wizard far, far better at Illusions than a Sorcerer in my opinion. Combine that with Effortless Trickery from Gnomes of Golarion, and you have a really nice way to use Silent Image.
This was one of my reasons for going wizard. By combining these options, I can have as many as three different illusions going at once.
I should mention that play has already begun, so major revamps like picking a totally different distribution of ability scores or switching class is not likely to happen. Minor adjustments, I'm pretty sure I can get the GM to ok, though.
I'll think a bit more on switching the bond for a familiar. Can I get a few more suggestions on how to maximize the use of a familiar vs an arcane bond? Should I go for a scorpion for +2 initiative and the ability to hide it safely away in my pocket, or pick something with wings, like a raven or hawk?
Vanish isn't horrible. It can bail you out of trouble. But usually obscuring mist can as well (at least from ranged attackers). Eh, I guess 2 rounds is probably worth it.
Familiar choice is a bit tricky. Everyone likes the scorpion familiar, but I'm not totally convinced it's a great deal. The +2 Init is half a feat (you're taking half a feat for the poison ability on the scorpion) while a rat or weasel gives you a full feat. The poison isn't *bad* on a scorpion, but I'd tend to use the full feat of a familiar more often. The raven is almost always a nice choice since it speaks a language, but mechanically +3 appraise is kind of lame. Thrush might be a better deal than a raven, but it's not as cool.
Remember you can cast personal-range polymorph-type spells on the familiar, so he can get a flying capability even if he normally doesn't fly. Those spells often boost a familiar's Strength score, so having a high Str is a good thing. And the current winner of high base Strength on a familiar is. . . the goat. The third runner up is the fox (Str 9), which gives you a nice +2 Reflex saves bonus.
I actually prefer to use Silent image instead of Obscuring mist. Create an illusion of smoke that looks exactly like obscuring mist - except that I can see through it without problems, since I auto-disbelieve the illusion.
A goat familiar might be fun, and an unconventional choice. If I go with the scorpion, whenever I don't have it out and doing stuff, I'd probably have it hiding in the place where I keep my spellbook, instructing it to sting anyone other than me who tries to touch it.
Vanish isn't horrible. It can bail you out of trouble. But usually obscuring mist can as well (at least from ranged attackers). Eh, I guess 2 rounds is probably worth it.
Familiar choice is a bit tricky. Everyone likes the scorpion familiar, but I'm not totally convinced it's a great deal. The +2 Init is half a feat (you're taking half a feat for the poison ability on the scorpion) while a rat or weasel gives you a full feat. The poison isn't *bad* on a scorpion, but I'd tend to use the full feat of a familiar more often. The raven is almost always a nice choice since it speaks a language, but mechanically +3 appraise is kind of lame. Thrush might be a better deal than a raven, but it's not as cool.
Remember you can cast personal-range polymorph-type spells on the familiar, so he can get a flying capability even if he normally doesn't fly. Those spells often boost a familiar's Strength score, so having a high Str is a good thing. And the current winner of high base Strength on a familiar is. . . the goat. The third runner up is the fox (Str 9), which gives you a nice +2 Reflex saves bonus.
I just can't see an illusionist wanting to deliver too many touch spells. Plus most familiar bonuses can be gained elsewhere via skills or gear. There are relatively few ways on the other hand to stack initiative bonuses and bonus initiative is just better than a bonus to a skill (how many wizards take improved initiative over skill focus?).
Dunno about silent image performing as obscuring mist or indeed other actual defensive spells. You want to limit interaction with your illusion as that grants a will save. As a GM I'd probably rule that an archer shooting at your illusionary smoke would get a save but I guess thats down to individual interpretation. Of course with an illusion you could just create a stone wall and hope they don't bother trying to shoot through it.
I actually prefer to use Silent image instead of Obscuring mist. Create an illusion of smoke that looks exactly like obscuring mist - except that I can see through it without problems, since I auto-disbelieve the illusion.
The problem with running through a silent image of obscuring mist is that you cause everyone to disbelieve the illusion. You can't make a figment out of a million particles of water -- a figment mist cloud is one "image" that looks like mist, but it isn't really mist. If you run through it, everyone automatically knows it's not a real mist cloud.
I just can't see an illusionist wanting to deliver too many touch spells. Plus most familiar bonuses can be gained elsewhere via skills or gear. There are relatively few ways on the other hand to stack initiative bonuses and bonus initiative is just better than a bonus to a skill (how many wizards take improved initiative over skill focus?
Like all things in the game, untyped bonuses are fantastic. Yes, you can gain a +3 bonus to a skill from an item. . . but this bonus *stacks* with that bonus. However, most caster characters tend to care more about saves and initiative than skills. Like I said, the initiative bonus on the scorpion is nice -- but it's half a feat. You're paying for the poison which is kinda meh.
One touch spell that is actually pretty awesome to deliver is invisibility. A friend of yours is in trouble, but you're busy doing something else (or you can't get there in time, or some other reason)? Cast invisibility (touch) on your familiar and have the familiar deliver the touch to your teammate.
It's not that a familiar isn't an optimal choice for damage/output/etc, it's that a familiar can just do so many little things. . . if you think about it. . .
You say it yourself. Saves and initiative are better than skills. And how many skills do you really care about boosting anyway? On the other hand once you take the easily obtainable ways of boosting your initiative it becomes extremely difficult and costly to get it higher and as a wizard you want it as high as you can get. The half-feat / feat comparison becomes pointless if the half feat gives you something the feat can't. The poison doesn't even come into the calculation your never going to use it anyway.
If your looking for your familiar to deliver party buffs then the scorpion does a roughly similar job than the bird. The bird only gets you to flying enemies that you probably aren't going to want to lay touch spells on anyway.
Not saying the scorpion is the be all and end all but in a game where it is thematically really appropriate its hard to beat.
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Your general build looks fine, and probably quite fun to play.
I am currently playing a Gnomish Illusionist in Serpent's Skull, and so far (we're level 4 and about to start the 2nd book), he's rocked!
Highlights:
Color Spray vs. Boss Critter. Using ambush tactics, we were able to lead a sizeable portion of the "last encounter" critters into a "color spray firing ling." Staying in stealth, and really over-using the Effortless Trickery ability of Silent Image + Ghost Sound worked great.
"Greased up Deaf Guy" When you're dealing with cannibals, one of the most likely things to get them to act in the way you'd like is to give them some bait. Since none of our PCs is human (except the Bard, who didn't want to be bait), we started using a Silent Image of a burly, loin-cloth-clad, Conan clone. When we got into fights, he would "charge" the nearest clump of cannibals while the rest of us vanished into the jungle, and set up ambush points.
Stealthy little bugger. Combining his Campaign Trait, decent Dexterity, Small Size, Cat Familiar, and skills in Stealth, the Wizard is just as good, if not better, at hiding as the Rogue and Ranger. An all-stealth party is very doable under these situations, allowing for more methodical, PC-driven, PC-controlled combats.
Here's his Character Sheet, for comparison's sake.
I'm gonna go against the grain here and tell you...
Bonded items are fantastic, I dont know what everyone's fussed about. Familiars are a), boring, b) likely to be forgotten and c) utterly useless (dont let anyone tell you otherwise).
A bonded item can be crafted WITHOUT THE FEATS. This is fantastic. It means you're paying half price for any wand you want on hand. And do I really need to point out the benefits of an open spell slot for a wizard? Being able to use ANY utility spell you know when the need arises is a great boon.
I see a lot of fuss over being seperated from a bonded item. Though... especially in the case of a ring or amulet... if you're going to be seperated from it you're either a) being disarmed and could just as easily be power attacked into the dirt, or b) have been captured, and likely won't get a chance to prepare spells anyway.
As for playing him, I believe there was something on the old wizards sites about "interacting" with illusions to disbelieve them taking an action, don't forget this. I'd also look into spells outside of your school, just in case. Perhaps Glitterdust would be a good fit?
Also props for playing a gnome. Would you care to tell us about your character? I've got a gnome bard I'm dying to play in LoF (but the lazy plebs I game with won't run it for me). A hedonistic, withered old gnome bard looking to wish away the bleaching, spending his twilight years in the pesh dens of Katapesh for cheap thrills... But I digress. Gnome Pride, my brother.
EDIT: Alas, looks like I'm a little late to the party. Also psionicchamster's character is making me equally jealous.