Hope this starts some good discussion.
I've seen groups suffer without a good melee killer.
Now While Rangers and Fighters are my favorites, I gotta say my pick goes to the Paladin.
He may not outdamage a fighter but smite takes care of 90% of significant fights.
He's the hardest to drop (Heavy armor/swift LOH)
Magic rolls off him
He can party face
He can fill in for healer
He's got a horse
AURA OF JUSTICE (nuff said)
Hope this starts some good discussion.
I've seen groups suffer without a good melee killer.
Now While Rangers and Fighters are my favorites, I gotta say my pick goes to the Paladin.He may not outdamage a fighter but smite takes care of 90% of significant fights.
He's the hardest to drop (Heavy armor/swift LOH)
Magic rolls off him
He can party face
He can fill in for healer
He's got a horseAURA OF JUSTICE (nuff said)
It really depends on the game. Fighters and pallies are up top though IMHO.
Different characters tend to get different mileage out of classes. I'm partial to monks as melee workhorses - self-reliant but work great in a team. The paladin is a great choice too due to his many added bonuses - and he shines in a campaign versus evil.
Different characters tend to get different mileage out of classes. I'm partial to monks as melee workhorses - self-reliant but work great in a team. The paladin is a great choice too due to his many added bonuses - and he shines in a campaign versus evil.
You and your monks /scoff
Fighters personally. I know Paladins can rip something serious right now, but there's a pretty severe roleplaying handicap. It's just a less versatile class than fighter.
Fighter is just good at whatever you decide to make him good at. As long as that thing is killing someone with weapons. Almost didn't put that last line in there, I would have looked quite the fool.
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My group hase 5 players. One arcane caster, Battle oracle, Fighter, Ranger, Melee Focused Bard.
In that set up the Bard. Is your melee kill. By buffing all 4 melee characters to hit and damage. Throw in some haste or good hope at level 7. And your set to take down encounters 4 to 5 CR higher then the characters.
So it realy depends on how your group is set up.
I would say fighter.
There is no denying that paladins, magi and inquisitors have crazy damage output potential. I have seen them all up close do their stuff and they are fantastic at it.
Barbarians, rangers and cleric can, if built right, be equally awesome.
As I see it the role of melee MVP depends a lot on the tactics of the PC party. In that regard i find fighters to be the best. As meatrace already stated, the fighter can be good at whatever you want him to be good at.
But I would go as far as saying, that fighters can be superb at whatever you want them to be good at OR they can be just good at something and still effectively fill other roles as needed. Their abundance of feats makes them exceptionaly versatile and if you have the right player customize a fighter for your party, you will never go wrong with a fighter.
On the down side fighters are not very self reliant at high levels. Their efficincy against magic enemies with DR, flight speed and/or invisibility becomes very dependant on magic support from their team. In these situations paladins, monks and clerics are more self reliant.
Still the game is played as a team and allowing the buff cleric to shine is also a way in which the fighter actually contibutes to the party.
It's an idiot question
Thx
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The Bard - buffing the hit/damage of the damage dealers
The Cleric - keeping your damage dealers alive
... wait for it ... ... ...
The Summoner - when built to be a duo wherein the summoner is right in the thick of battle with their Eidolon using Teamwork Feats to their fullest potential (Precise Strike and Outflank). The damage potential of the duo can make short work a difficult fight with tactical options (Summoner abilities/spells, reach weapons, reach evolution, etc) that allow them to control placement on the battlefield and threatened areas.
Fighter is the best at being "The melee guy" but can't really do anything else. My personal least favorite.
Paladin and Ranger are weaker in that order depending on circumstance, but can become powerhouses themselves against the right enemy, and add a good amount outside of just beating someone with a stick.
Fighter is the best at being "The melee guy" but can't really do anything else. My personal least favorite.
Paladin and Ranger are weaker in that order depending on circumstance, but can become powerhouses themselves against the right enemy, and add a good amount outside of just beating someone with a stick.
Honestly, I disagree. Fighters are the best "combat" classes, I can agree with that. But they can be versatile. With their extensive number of feats (more than 3.5 gave) they can excel at both ranged and melee, at having hit points, disrupting spell casters (which makes them the best tactical class in the game). They can disrupt charges if they carry a polearm with them, they can pretty much stop anyone at any range. Heck, they've got feats that make them potent at fighting large sized enemies or even dragons. A fighter can sword and board, or two hand a weapon and hack through enemy lines. I didn't mention him above, but to me the fighter is the epitome of badass when it comes to combat at any range.
A well built fighter should be the batman of combat situations. He should be able switch his equipment set on the spot and move in and out of every dangerous situation one step ahead of his enemy. If his caster is cornered, that fighter should be able to punish his opponent for turning his back on him for even a moment. A fighter, in my book, always has the upper hand. In fact, this has inspired me for a build...the "Upper Hand" fighter.
I think you slightly missed his point.
Edit: I'm also not sure I really buy all of your assertions, either.
Fighter is the best at being "The melee guy" but can't really do anything else. My personal least favorite.
Paladin and Ranger are weaker in that order depending on circumstance, but can become powerhouses themselves against the right enemy, and add a good amount outside of just beating someone with a stick.
Honestly, I disagree. Fighters are the best "combat" classes, I can agree with that. But they can be versatile. With their extensive number of feats (more than 3.5 gave) they can excel at both ranged and melee, at having hit points, disrupting spell casters (which makes them the best tactical class in the game). They can disrupt charges if they carry a polearm with them, they can pretty much stop anyone at any range. Heck, they've got feats that make them potent at fighting large sized enemies or even dragons. A fighter can sword and board, or two hand a weapon and hack through enemy lines. I didn't mention him above, but to me the fighter is the epitome of badass when it comes to combat at any range.
A well built fighter should be the batman of combat situations. He should be able switch his equipment set on the spot and move in and out of every dangerous situation one step ahead of his enemy. If his caster is cornered, that fighter should be able to punish his opponent for turning his back on him for even a moment. A fighter, in my book, always has the upper hand. In fact, this has inspired me for a build...the "Upper Hand" fighter.
All of those involve beating a dude with a stick, though. Or shooting them with one I guess?
Once the fighter is in a situation where "attack it" isn't a response he loses his luster rather fast. Ranger and paladin have distinctly more versatility outside of combat - and a bit more inside combat as well on occasions where you aren't beating something with a stick.
Don't get me wrong, fighter is probably pound for pound the most damaging or "kill the baddies" best at melee. But if you want to do something outside of that, fighter isn't your highest option.
Ok, I should have stated the title different.
"Which Melee based class is the MVP?"
I was referring to the total package
DPR- check
Survival vs being attacked- Check
Resistance to hostile magic- check
Out of Combat social stuff- check
Out of combat uses (ie magic, healing, trapfinding etc)
They are not my favorite class but I figure Pally or Maybe Inquisitors (followed by arcane.Duelist bards) probably tick more boxes than.other.classes
(Its arguable calling a Bard/Inquisitor a 'melee' class though
If you're just talking 1 fight per day, and you include tanking in your analysis, then a druid wildshaped as a bird sitting in a nearby tree and dumping his entire spell column into summons, top down, is a pretty strong candidate.