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Is it stated anywhere RAW that a 1 is a fumble on a skill check? If so is a 20 a auto win?
When using skills, 1 is not an automatic failure, and 20 is not an automatic success.
Automatic failure and automatic success only applies to saving throws and attack rolls.
When using skills, 1 is not an automatic failure, and 20 is not an automatic success.
Automatic failure and automatic success only applies to saving throws and attack rolls.
Thats what i thought but i had to ask. Anyone know where this is in the rule book?
Automatic failure and automatic success only applies to saving throws and attack rolls.
Is this spelled out in black and white ANYWERE in the rules or can someone Ref a rule that is related in someway?
Automatic failure and automatic success only applies to saving throws and attack rolls.
Is this spelled out in black and white ANYWERE in the rules or can someone Ref a rule that is related in someway?
Absolutely. Automatic success and failure isn't a general rule. It is specific to certain types of rolls. The automatic success and failure rules are explicitly called out for some rolls, such as saves and combat.
Skill rolls have no such rules. Applying rules for other types of rolls isn't appropriate.
Edit: Semi-Ninja'ed!
Is this spelled out in black and white ANYWERE in the rules or can someone Ref a rule that is related in someway?
Automatic Misses and Hits: A natural 1 (the d20 comes up 1) on an attack roll is always a miss. A natural 20 (the d20 comes up 20) is always a hit. A natural 20 is also a threat—a possible critical hit (see the attack action).
Automatic Failures and Successes: A natural 1 (the d20 comes up 1) on a saving throw is always a failure (and may cause damage to exposed items; see Items Surviving after a Saving Throw). A natural 20 (the d20 comes up 20) is always a success.
Stable Characters and Recovery: On the character's next turn, after being reduced to negative hit points (but not dead), and on all subsequent turns, the character must make a DC 10 Constitution check to become stable. The character takes a penalty on this roll equal to his negative hit point total. A character that is stable does not need to make this check. A natural 20 on this check is an automatic success.
(Combat Maneuver) Determine Success: If your attack roll equals or exceeds the CMD of the target, your maneuver is a success and has the listed effect. Some maneuvers, such as bull rush, have varying levels of success depending on how much your attack roll exceeds the target's CMD. Rolling a natural 20 while attempting a combat maneuver is always a success (except when attempting to escape from bonds), while rolling a natural 1 is always a failure.
There are a few other times that natural 20/1 have different results, but they are mentioned specifically (Talisman of Reluctant Wishes).
Does the automatic success/failure roll also apply to ability checks?No, nor does it apply to skill checks.
You don't have a 1-in-20 chance to bust open the vault door to a bank (Strength check DC 1000).
You don't have a 1-in-20 chance to jump over the moon (Acrobatics DC 1 zillion).
That's the best you're going to get.
No, there's no rule about it, because the rules don't cover everything that is not true. The challenge for anyone who wants to say that a natural 1 is a failure and a natural 20 is a success is to find a rule which allows that to be true. For weapon attacks, that's spelled out in the combat section.
Attack Roll[/url]]An attack roll represents your attempt to strike your opponent on your turn in a round. When you make an attack roll, you roll a d20 and add your attack bonus. (Other modifiers may also apply to this roll.) If your result equals or beats the target's Armor Class, you hit and deal damage.
Automatic Misses and Hits
A natural 1 (the d20 comes up 1) on an attack roll is always a miss. A natural 20 (the d20 comes up 20) is always a hit. A natural 20 is also a threat—a possible critical hit (see the attack action).
This therefore becomes the exception to "roll a d20 and add some number, then compare to the target DC". Instead of only rolling a d20, adding your attack bonus and comparing to the DC (in this case, the AC), you have the exception that a natural 1 is a failure and a natural 20 is a success. But that's specifically only for attack rolls.
Nowhere does it have an equivalent rule for skill or ability checks. If it did, you'd always succeed when you took 20 on something, even if that something is "Jump from here to the moon."
No, there's no rule about it, because the rules don't cover everything that is not true. The challenge for anyone who wants to say that a natural 1 is a failure and a natural 20 is a success is to find a rule which allows that to be true. For weapon attacks, that's spelled out in the combat section.
Attack Roll[/url]]An attack roll represents your attempt to strike your opponent on your turn in a round. When you make an attack roll, you roll a d20 and add your attack bonus. (Other modifiers may also apply to this roll.) If your result equals or beats the target's Armor Class, you hit and deal damage.
Automatic Misses and Hits
A natural 1 (the d20 comes up 1) on an attack roll is always a miss. A natural 20 (the d20 comes up 20) is always a hit. A natural 20 is also a threat—a possible critical hit (see the attack action).
This therefore becomes the exception to "roll a d20 and add some number, then compare to the target DC". Instead of only rolling a d20, adding your attack bonus and comparing to the DC (in this case, the AC), you have the exception that a natural 1 is a failure and a natural 20 is a success. But that's specifically only for attack rolls.
Nowhere does it have an equivalent rule for skill or ability checks. If it did, you'd always succeed when you took 20 on something, even if that something is "Jump from here to the moon."
Thank you guys for the replys. I needed this one spelled in black and white.