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And I would like to stress that unlike most situations, I would absolutely, positively love someone to come in and prove me wrong on this one.
You can do so in PFS, as long as the abilities gained are not of a level you have already achieved.
as an Example the Bladebound archetype does not get it's first ability until level 3, so a Level 1 or 2 can become a Bladebound, but not a 3+.
The issue came up when the APG became part of the player options & one of the head guys [Hyrum or Mark, I don't recall which] answered pretty much what Dragnmoon said.
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The issue came up when the APG became part of the player options & one of the head guys [Hyrum or Mark, I don't recall which] answered pretty much what Dragnmoon said.
And I would like to stress that unlike most situations, I would absolutely, positively love someone to come in and prove me wrong on this one.
You can do so in PFS, as long as the abilities gained are not of a level you have already achieved.
as an Example the Bladebound archetype does not get it's first ability until level 3, so a Level 1 or 2 can become a Bladebound, but not a 3+.
Hopefully, that means my second level bard can become a sound striker as well?
Ahh ok, so it's one of those "it got said but never really made it into the guide" sort of things?
Yeah, this is the only exception to the rule and it only applies to existing characters when a major new book is released, such as the APG or UM or UC. If you decide to make a character now that the book is out, you have to go by the rules and choose your archetypes at first level.
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Haven't read the whole thread, so pardon if this is already posted, but a serious issue:
The Vivisectionist archtype for Alchemist replaces bombs with sneak attack.
PFS Alchemists recieve Extra Bombs instead of Brew Potion at 1st lvl.
Does the vivisectionist get a different feat instead, or is he left with a useless feat?
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Haven't read the whole thread, so pardon if this is already posted, but a serious issue:
The Vivisectionist archtype for Alchemist replaces bombs with sneak attack.
PFS Alchemists recieve Extra Bombs instead of Brew Potion at 1st lvl.Does the vivisectionist get a different feat instead, or is he left with a useless feat?
I'm just starting a new vivisectionist character tonight, and would be very interested to know the answer to that question.
Regional Venture-Coordinator, Baltic
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I'm just starting a new vivisectionist character tonight, and would be very interested to know the answer to that question.Haven't read the whole thread, so pardon if this is already posted, but a serious issue:
The Vivisectionist archtype for Alchemist replaces bombs with sneak attack.
PFS Alchemists recieve Extra Bombs instead of Brew Potion at 1st lvl.Does the vivisectionist get a different feat instead, or is he left with a useless feat?
If this isn't answered by the campaign staff before then, just replace it with Weapon Focus War razor. (Scalpel)
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If this isn't answered by the campaign staff before then, just replace it with Weapon Focus War razor. (Scalpel)
While I love the flavor behind this idea, the issue with that is that the War Razor is
a)Martial. Not something that the Alchemist has proficiency with.b)Is not in the core assumption nor either of the supplement books utilized in creating a vivisectionist (Ultimate Magic and the Advanced Player's Guide.)
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Baltic
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If this isn't answered by the campaign staff before then, just replace it with Weapon Focus War razor. (Scalpel)While I love the flavor behind this idea, the issue with that is that the War Razor is
a)Martial. Not something that the Alchemist has proficiency with.
b)Is not in the core assumption nor either of the supplement books utilized in creating a vivisectionist (Ultimate Magic and the Advanced Player's Guide.)
Catharsis is one of my local players and I knew what his build looked like, so I could safely make the suggestion. He decided to play his summoner instead, so the issue was moot.
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Catharsis is one of my local players and I knew what his build looked like, so I could safely make the suggestion. He decided to play his summoner instead, so the issue was moot.
I see I see.
Still, I like the suggestion and think it could possibly be the base for an official PFS substitution, such as weapon proficiency with a selected list of weapons or the Martial Weapon Proficiency feat instead of Brew Potion/ Extra Bombs. The vivisectionist I rolled up took proficiency with the Ogre Hook as a feat and surely wouldn't mind regaining that feat slot.
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While running a couple of tables with a master summoner I have developed the opinion that the class is broken. Since the summoning is a spell like ability it takes just one standard action to cast then it appears next round the summoning becomes nearly unstoppable. He hangs in the back without his eidolon and just keeps churning them out two a round with each advanced. With nine casting to do a day I have had a small battle space filled with so many small creatures it was ridiculous. No where to move and the character’s turn would drag on even when I had him roll ahead of time.
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While running a couple of tables with a master summoner/broodmaster I have developed the opinion that the class is broken. Since the summoning is a spell like ability it takes just one standard action to cast then it appears next round the summoning becomes nearly unstoppable. He hangs in the back without his eidolon and just keeps churning them out two a round with each advanced. With nine casting to do a day I have had a small battle space filled with so many small creatures it was ridiculous. No where to move and the character’s turn would drag on even when I had him roll ahead of time.
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While running a couple of tables with a master summoner I have developed the opinion that the class is broken. Since the summoning is a spell like ability it takes just one standard action to cast then it appears next round the summoning becomes nearly unstoppable. He hangs in the back without his eidolon and just keeps churning them out two a round with each advanced. With nine casting to do a day I have had a small battle space filled with so many small creatures it was ridiculous. No where to move and the character’s turn would drag on even when I had him roll ahead of time.
First question: How is he doing two a round?
It takes a standard action, so only one summons should be possible in a round.It is an SLA, so Quicken, either feat or rod, won't affect it.
And the Quicken Spell-like Ability feat is from the Bestiary, and not, normally, open for standard Summoners.
Advanced? What do you mean by advanced? Augment Summon feat would work, but I am not sure how he is adding the Advanced template (if that was what you meant) to his summoned creatures.
Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
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While running a couple of tables with a master summoner/broodmaster I have developed the opinion that the class is broken. Since the summoning is a spell like ability it takes just one standard action to cast then it appears next round the summoning becomes nearly unstoppable. He hangs in the back without his eidolon and just keeps churning them out two a round with each advanced. With nine casting to do a day I have had a small battle space filled with so many small creatures it was ridiculous. No where to move and the character’s turn would drag on even when I had him roll ahead of time.
I'd like to point out that you can't have a master summoner/broodmaster. They both modify the eidolon ability (not to mention life link), so they can't both be taken together.
As for Callarek's concern, I assume he's summoning lower level summons so he's getting 1d3, and Master Summoner gets Augment summoning for free and assume Russell is talking about that. Though I could be wrong in my assumptions (I often seem to be on the boards...)
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Baltic
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Looks like he is using superior summoning from Ultimate Magic as well. That way he does not have to take Broodmaster which is illegal in PFS. All legal we just need to figure out how to speed up the combat.
www.combatmanager.com if a computer is available and there are some smartphone apps as well (don't know the names of those though)
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Can you use Superior Summoning on a spell-like ability?
Superior Summoning
You can summon more creatures.Prerequisites: Augment Summoning, caster level 3rd.
Benefit: Each time you cast a summoning spell that conjures more than one creature, add one to the total number of creatures summoned.
It specifies summon spell. Is the spell-like Summon Monster ability considered a spell for this?
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Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
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Yeah, just like Augment summoning says creatures you summon with any summon spell, this feat works too. Just make sure he's not getting an additional summon when he's using his highest level summons. As in when I use SM4 and get a mephit I'm only summoning one creature and the feat wouldn't kick in, but when I use SM4 to summon 1d3 lantern archons I'd actually summon 1d3+1 with this feat. At least that's how I've seen it run, some might argue that even if you use it to summon 1d3 and only roll a 1, you wouldn't get the +1 from the feat.
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He always just has one summoned plus the one. So his character, a she, has two coming out every round. I just want to be sure if anyone brings it up to be able to say we have looked at it and it is all legal and above board.
If he is using superior summoning he should be getting more then 2.
"Each time you cast a summoning spell that conjures more than one creature, add one to the total number of creatures summoned."
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Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
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I play a MS in a home campaign. I try to summon the same creatures, if they have multiple attacks, I have a d20 and damage die for each attack and roll them all at once. As long as you know what dice goes with which attack, and know your bonuses, it should go quickly.
Also rolling your attacks during others' turns and writing them down will help. if you have situational mods, add them during your turn when you're figuring if you hit or not. If doing this, roll damage whether you think you hit or not, since something might change it, or modify it somehow. (unless its a fumble or something)
I also use Happy Camper's 4th page sheets and he has a nice summon creature sheet. Having your summons all figured out before hand is Crucial.
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He always just has one summoned plus the one. So his character, a she, has two coming out every round. I just want to be sure if anyone brings it up to be able to say we have looked at it and it is all legal and above board.
As DM suggests, if he is using Superior Summoning it only works when you use the option to summon multiple lower level creatures. Summoning a single at level creature and doubling it up doesn't work.
With summon monster III, you summon exactly one creature from the SM III table or if you summon 1d3 creatures from the SM II table you get an extra one from Superior Summoning.
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| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
I think I understand one issue with the wording and it was brought up to me recently. Does Superior Summoning add an extra whenever you use a version that can (read: capable) summon more than one or just when it actually does?
For example, you cast a Summon Monster III as a II option, resulting in a 1d3 option. Do you automatically get the +1 or only when it actually results in a 2 or 3?
A rules lawyer can make a case for the latter, but IMO it is the former.
Bob, the text says "summoning spell that conjures" not "summoning spell that CAN conjure", so I am with you and the bonus creature only happens when the spells actually causes at least two creatures to appear.
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False reasoning
How is it false reasoning? Either the text clearly states what happens or it doesn't. In this case, there seems to be two ways to interpret the text, therefore both understandings have merit. You cannot clarify what something DOES say, by proposing what it would mean it it said something other than what it does.
If it said the latter, it would be clear how it worked, but it doesn't. I think I know what is intended (we agree on the RAI), but I accept that I may be wrong. And I agree that it might be eligible for an FAQ. It's just bad form to tell someone their opinion is wrong when the rule is clearly, not clear as written.
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With Superior Summoning it seemed like it was too powerful of a feat until it was pointed out that it only worked when summoning multiple creatures. Since you are already summoning a random number of lesser creatures adding one more does not seem to make the feat too powerful. What was breaking my encounters was when the battle mat would be filled with augmented twins with a lot of hit points and a great bonus to hit and damage. For the simple reason the other players began to loth it. With the lesser creatures even if there are more of them they could be cleared out by one or two area effect damages. GMs will only push back on this if it becomes a problem at the table. That’s why I was out looking for help.
Still want a scenario with several Master Summoner NPCs with Superior Summoning and Augmented Summoning. I really need to get started writing that one.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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With Superior Summoning it seemed like it was too powerful of a feat until it was pointed out that it only worked when summoning multiple creatures. Since you are already summoning a random number of lesser creatures adding one more does not seem to make the feat too powerful. What was breaking my encounters was when the battle mat would be filled with augmented twins with a lot of hit points and a great bonus to hit and damage. For the simple reason the other players began to loth it. With the lesser creatures even if there are more of them they could be cleared out by one or two area effect damages. GMs will only push back on this if it becomes a problem at the table. That’s why I was out looking for help.
Still want a scenario with several Master Summoner NPCs with Superior Summoning and Augmented Summoning. I really need to get started writing that one.
Name suggestion: This is the combat that never ends. :P
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Title “Eruption”
Blurb "A scenario written for levels 7-11 Golarion is not big enough for this scenario. Watch in aw as you find yourself outnumbered and surrounded in seconds by the bestiary. Now you know what the Tribble Lodge is all about and fear is it’s new name."
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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I'm imagining a swarm of kitten-like tribbles chasing down the PCs.
...Watch in aw...
More like watch in awwww.