I'm contemplating creating a summoner for a future campaign. My character's eidolon was going to be a biped, and I was planningbon having it be essentially a walking suit if armor/iron golem. I was planning on giving it a great sword, but I am unclear on how exactly it factors in to it's attacks. At level one I see it would get 3 maximum attacks, so if I gave it Slam, could the great sword be a secondary? Or do they not work in the same pool?
Anyone have any clarification on how weapons play a role in an Eidolons attack sequence?
Side question: any suggestions for secondary attacks for a bipedal/humanoid eidolon?
Not specific to Eidolons but any creature using a mix of manufactured attacks and natural attacks treats all natural attacks as secondary.
So basically me eidolon could attack with the great sword, then slam with his arm, then perform whatever I decide I what the trietary attack to be? Neat. Thanks for the info.
Unless he has four arms that slam is not gonna happen. The greatsword is a two handed weapon.
Basic summary of how this works:
- The eidolon gets natural attacks based on the evolutions it has, up to it's listed maximum. It gets one attack per natural attack it has, as either a primary (with full strength) or a secondary (with half strength) attack as appropriate to the attack. If it only has one attack, it does 150% of strength.
- If the eidolon has arms, it can wield a weapon in them by giving up whatever natural attack (if any) those arms normally have. This lets the eidolon make iterative attacks with the weapon, but all their primary natural attacks become secondary (with half strength). These attacks do not count towards the listed maximum.
- Claws, pincers, and the like require one hand, so wielding a one-handed weapon will replace one of these attacks, and wielding a two-handed weapon will replace two.
- Slams require two hands, so wielding a weapon at all (one or two handed) will replace one of these attacks.
- If you have multiple sets of arms, wielding weapons in arms which have no natural attacks does not penalize the number of natural attacks you can make.
Basic summary of how this works:
- If the eidolon has arms, it can wield a weapon in them by giving up whatever natural attack (if any) those arms normally have. This lets the eidolon make iterative attacks with the weapon, but all their primary natural attacks become secondary (with half strength). These attacks do not count towards the listed maximum.
So I can be clear on how this works, let's say my eidelion has a long sword, claw, bite, and an unnamed third natural attack. His limit is 3 attacks, can he attack with the long sword (full strength) and his three natural attacks afterwards, or just his sword and two natural?
I would suggest the following :
Make all his 'weapon' attacks actually just natural attacks.
An eidelon's strength is it's diversity.
Let's say you take Bipedal, and give it a slam and two claws. You can define the two claws as spikes on the armor's arms, and the slam as a greatsword. If it uses the spikes, it's not using the sword. If it uses the sword, it's not using it's claws. If it also has a 'tail' and 'tail whip' then define that as a long chain hanging from the helmet that it whips around to attack enemies.
I can hear someone say now "But what if it's weapon is sundered or disarmed". It's an Eidelon, sundering the weapon just does damage to the Eidelon. Disarming it can be that the sward flies away and dissapates, reappearing in the eidelon's hand instantly.
So I can be clear on how this works, let's say my eidelion has a long sword, claw, bite, and an unnamed third natural attack. His limit is 3 attacks, can he attack with the long sword (full strength) and his three natural attacks afterwards, or just his sword and two natural?Basic summary of how this works:
- If the eidolon has arms, it can wield a weapon in them by giving up whatever natural attack (if any) those arms normally have. This lets the eidolon make iterative attacks with the weapon, but all their primary natural attacks become secondary (with half strength). These attacks do not count towards the listed maximum.
Unfortunately, it's Longsword + 3 natural attacks.
I hate the way they balanced the Eidelon. Rather than limit the number of attacks correctly (total natural + manufactured) and leaving it as staying around when the summoner is unconscious/asleep, they got rid of it if the summoner is not awake, and let it keep doing buckets and buckets of attacks by mixing natural and weapon attacks (And there's no limit on 'arms' with weapons in them other than the points you have in your pool). Blech.
I would suggest the following :
Make all his 'weapon' attacks actually just natural attacks.
An eidelon's strength is it's diversity.
Let's say you take Bipedal, and give it a slam and two claws. You can define the two claws as spikes on the armor's arms, and the slam as a greatsword. If it uses the spikes, it's not using the sword. If it uses the sword, it's not using it's claws. If it also has a 'tail' and 'tail whip' then define that as a long chain hanging from the helmet that it whips around to attack enemies.
I can hear someone say now "But what if it's weapon is sundered or disarmed". It's an Eidelon, sundering the weapon just does damage to the Eidelon. Disarming it can be that the sward flies away and dissapates, reappearing in the eidelon's hand instantly.
I like that better than an actual sword, honestly! Thanks for the suggestion.
Side note on the same topic, can multiple primaries be used in one attack? IE a slam then a bite? (I understand the latter "primary" attrack would be at half strength I was just curious if it could be done, or if only the main attack could be a primary )
I hate the way they balanced the Eidelon. Rather than limit the number of attacks correctly (total natural + manufactured) and leaving it as staying around when the summoner is unconscious/asleep, they got rid of it if the summoner is not awake, and let it keep doing buckets and buckets of attacks by mixing natural and weapon attacks (And there's no limit on 'arms' with weapons in them other than the points you have in your pool). Blech.
I disagree, I find that the idea of infinite arms w/ weapons as quite limiting, you would be better off maxing just a few attacks. All those arms cost a lot of evolution points, plus you then have to actually buy all of the equipment for the eidolon to use. On top of that, even with Multiweapon fighting you still get a -2 for main hand and -6 for all off hand attacks. Unless you are dumping massive amounts of evolution points into Sta increases you're not going to hit with most off-hand attacks.
For four limbs wielding swords, I need (assuming biped base) 6 EV points, plus a feat and I'm attacking at -2/-6/-6/-6 and only wielding light weapons, i.e. 1d6 damage at best and only 1/2 sta for all attacks after the first. Conversely I can spend the same EV points have 4 arms with 4 claw attacks at full BAB doing 1d6+full Sta and have a point left over for reach or push or magic attacks etc.
Side note on the same topic, can multiple primaries be used in one attack? IE a slam then a bite? (I understand the latter "primary" attrack would be at half strength I was just curious if it could be done, or if only the main attack could be a primary )
All primary attacks are always at BAB + Full Sta unless using manufactured weapons. So bite/claw/slam/pincher/sting combo is 5 attacks at full BAB. Secondary attack are always secondary unless it's all you got. Not applicable to Eidolon, but a monster w/ just tail slap does tail slap at full BAB, but if it has another attack, say bite, then tail slap is at -5 (-2 w/ multiattack) and 1/2sta.
Using the example above, if you have bite/claw/slam/pincher/tail slap and your BAB was say +5 (just a random number) you would attack at +5/+5/+5/+5/+0. If you have a sword instead of your slam attack you would attack at +5/+0/+0/+0/+0 and with multiattack feat, +5/+3/+3/+3/+3
I like that better than an actual sword, honestly! Thanks for the suggestion.I would suggest the following :
Make all his 'weapon' attacks actually just natural attacks.
An eidelon's strength is it's diversity.
Let's say you take Bipedal, and give it a slam and two claws. You can define the two claws as spikes on the armor's arms, and the slam as a greatsword. If it uses the spikes, it's not using the sword. If it uses the sword, it's not using it's claws. If it also has a 'tail' and 'tail whip' then define that as a long chain hanging from the helmet that it whips around to attack enemies.
I can hear someone say now "But what if it's weapon is sundered or disarmed". It's an Eidelon, sundering the weapon just does damage to the Eidelon. Disarming it can be that the sward flies away and dissapates, reappearing in the eidelon's hand instantly.
I do like this idea, but you need to be careful with it. You still can't have more natural attacks than the limbs you have would support, you still need a tail to have a tail slam, you still need to use the appropriate damage type and dice size for what it actually is rather than what it appears to be, and you still don't get iterative attacks (but conversely, you don't take the penalties to your natural attacks you would if you had actual weapons). I do like both the flavor and mechanics of this idea, though.