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I am playing Kingmaker and I have lost a fair few characters so I thought I would go for an Elf fighter and really aim to kill things quickly.
We are 9th level using 20 point stats.
Str:22
Dex:16
Con:12
Int:12
Wis:10
Chr:10I have a belt of Giant Strength+4 and an Elven Curve Blade +3
My attacks are - +22/+17 1d10+16 Crit: 15-20 x2.
With Power Att +19/+14 1d10+25 Crit 15-20 x2.
With Haste I would have another attack so with vital strike my maximum damage output (3 crits +7d10)= 220
That seems like a stupid amount of damage, is it too much, will the character break the game or marginalise other PC's.
I really don't want to do that. I haven't played Pathfinder long enough to know if that is the damage output you should be getting from a fighter at this level but as I only used the core book and have no prestige classes in there I don't see how it can be broken.
Any advice much appreciated.
You cannot vital strike during a full attack. It requires you to take an action to do so.
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Vital strike is a standard action and as such can't be used as a full attack. It only allows for one attack.Ok so no vital strike but that only reduces the maximum damage output by 1d10.Though reading vital strike it just says as part of an attack one of your attacks does more damage. The wording could go either way. I will look at the rules forum see if that has been clarified by a developer.
Here is the current rule from the PRD:
===========================================================Vital Strike (Combat)
You make a single attack that deals significantly more damage than normal.
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage. Roll the weapon's damage dice for the attack twice and add the results together before adding bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities (such as flaming), precision based damage, and other damage bonuses. These extra weapon damage dice are not multiplied on a critical hit, but are added to the total.
===========================================================
It limits it to one attack, no matter how you do it since it requires an action and haste grants an attack not an attack action. Other than that your math look ok, crits aren't gauranteed and if you really wanted to get damage that way I would look at 2-handing a falcata or looking into the 2-handed fighter archtype.
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You make a single attack that deals significantly more damage than normal.
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage. Roll the weapon's damage dice for the attack twice and add the results together before adding bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities (such as flaming), precision based damage, and other damage bonuses. These extra weapon damage dice are not multiplied on a critical hit, but are added to the total.
Single Attack only
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Vital Strike has been clarified. Rather often. I wish they had used the common term of 'Standard Action' instead of the rather cryptic 'Attack Action' (to differentiate it from the 'Full Attack Action').
Still, the maximum damage is rather irrelevant since the character would need to roll three threats (a chance of 0.027 at best), confirm each of them (chance depending on the AC of the opponent) and roll six 10s on six d10 (1:1,000,000).
The average damage is much more important, I'd advise to take a look into the DPR olympics to get the formula.
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Everyone looks like they do a lot of damage with a crit on everything
Trying to break down what you have there. I think you are a little high on attack.
BAB: 9/4
Str Mod: 6
Weapon Training: 2
Enh Bns: 3
PA: -3/+9
1d10+16 (11*1.5)
+20/+15
PA:
1d10+25
+17/+12
Yes, it does a fair amount of damage, but this is using a lot of assumptions. The biggest being you roll 15 or higher on 6d20, then assuming that works, roll high on 6d10.
All I see is a fighter with 12 con, ie glass cannon. Sure you're murder on a stick, but maybe your high mortality rate has something to do with fixation on damage output instead of building a balanced character with a matching capacity to survive damage. How about dropping vital strike for toughness?
+1
If you keep dying why don't you look at ways in which you can decrease your chances of getting hit and increase the amount of damage you can take. I'm not suggesting you turtle up but I agree you need a bit more balance in your character.
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Switch DEX with CON. Dump CHA to bump WIS. I don't care how badass you are. 1 failed will save and it's GAME OVER.It's an elf. Switching Con and Dex would cost him 7 additional build points.
Then I recommend getting a stat boosting item to increase CON. Low HP also quickly leads to GAME OVER, especially if you're a frontliner. Dump favored class bonuses into HP and leave things outside of combat to your skill monkey.
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On a side note, how heavily invested are you in playing an elf? If not so invested, then I recommend switching to dwarf. You get:
- +2 to CON + WIS (exactly the 2 stats u need to survive)
- +2 racial will save against poison, spells & spell-like abilities (+4 if you get take the steel soul feat)
- +4 to CBD against bullrush and trip
- darkvision (need to see to survive)
Sure you're speed is reduced to 20 ft, but all the defensive bonuses you receive far outweighs a reduction of 10 ft in speed, especially if you expect to be hasted.
I am not sold on high DEX builds b/c I found that at high level, the BBEG can pretty much hit anything. Might as well sink ur ability points into stats that will always serve you (CON for HP and fort save, WIS for will save) instead of DEX. Unless you're a 2-weapon fighter, you'll get very little mileage out of high DEX (your hp will soak up any dmg you take from a failed ref save). The exception is initiative (mitigate with improved initiative) and maybe acrobatics. Personally, as a high dmg dealer, the most efficient thing to do is to slap on full plate and execute full attacks (instead of bouncing around with acrobatics). Failing that, your casters can either flush them out with magic or just take care of things on their own.
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I am not sold on high DEX builds b/c I found that at high level, the BBEG can pretty much hit anything.This is a bit of a misnomer. There are levels where enemy/party ACs are low with respect to corresponding hitrolls. But these pass.
It can lead to parties that are VERY easy to hit which if taken into account can really hose them.
-James
I should have clarified that I don't believe in high DEX builds for FIGHTER and instead think it's more practical to simply slap on full plate. Unless you retain armor training (or get mithril full plate), then the AC from armor + DEX will complement each other nicely. However, for a fighter, I would not retain DEX at the expense at CON or WIS.
Another clarification is that while you can raise your AC high enough so that the mooks will have a hard time, the BBEG most often than not can always hit you, at least in my experience, especially at high level. I did not mean to suggest DEX is unimportant, period.
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16 DEX is not "high DEX", especially for an Elf Fighter. 1`6 DEX merely allows him to use all of his DEX for AC with Armor Training 1 & 2, without the need of investing in Mithral Full Plate. Upgrade that Full plate up to +3 and you have a very solid AC.
This build is not overpowered, it's just good at what a 2H fighter build does well: dishing out respectable damage to a single target.
Furious Focus is very valuable to your DPS: +3 to hit on your primary attack (and only attack when not using a full round attack...) is very significant.
Watch your WILL and Reflex saves -- and look at spending some feats on improving them, as they are your primary weakness.
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I could swap out the belt of giant str+4 for one of +2 to str and con.
That might help a bit.
You could use the savings for a headband of inspired wisdom +2 and a ring of protection +1, both of which would also help your survivability.
More than anything else, your weak Will save is what would concern me. Even with bravery, your character only has a 50/50 chance of not freaking out and running away the moment a bone devil - a not-uncommon CR 9 opponent - shows up on the scene. Anything you can do to boost that save would be a good thing.
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+2 WIS headband, Iron Will and Improved Iron Will = +3 to your will save and a priceless daily Will save reroll.
Why Half Plate? With Fighter's Armor Training you should definitely be wearing Fullplate.
You want that +4STR belt at some point, but saves and AC (including that +1 Ring of Protection) should come first.
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I'd reconsider your allotment of points, with a little bit of shuffling you can get (after the +4 Belt of Giant Strength) something like:
Str 20 (base 15, +1 at level 8, +4 from the belt)
Dex 16 (base 14, +2 racial)
Con 14 (base 15, -2 racial, +1 at level 4)
Int 13 (base 11, +2 racial)
Wis 12
Cha 8
With this you lose a point of strength modifier, but the higher constitution and wisdom are more than worth it. Since you already have Toughness, go with Iron Will (and Improved if you can spare the feat). You'll still be a terror on the battlefield, but one that is considerably harder to put down.
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I'd reconsider your allotment of points, with a little bit of shuffling you can get (after the +4 Belt of Giant Strength) something like:
Str 20 (base 15, +1 at level 8, +4 from the belt)
Dex 16 (base 14, +2 racial)
Con 14 (base 15, -2 racial, +1 at level 4)
Int 13 (base 11, +2 racial)
Wis 12
Cha 8
These stats are much better, although WIS is still a bit lower than I would prefer. Maybe take 3 points away from INT and add that to WIS? You'll get an average INT of 10 (base 8, +2 racial) and a higher WIS. Is there a compelling reason to have 13 INT (like for feat qualification)?
Any advice much appreciated.
Here's how a I typically do wealth. Since we're dealing with a fighter, look at weapons and armor first -- then do everything else. The +4 Str is nice, but you can't ignore armor (as others have said).
You should be spending about half your wealth on a weapon or weapons. With 23k to spend, a +3 weapon is 18380. So you've got around 5k more to spend. One option is to get a MW alchemical silver blade (560), a MW cold iron blade (460), and an adamantine blade (3080). You also need a ranged weapon (MW Composite Longbow 1, 500). Throw in some mundane weapons (a longsword to use with a shield, and a dagger).
You've got 3 gold left over.
So now you need armor.
You have a +3 Dex modifier, but you have armor training 2, so there's really no serious drawback to get a +1 full plate. That will be 2650.
But is that the armor enhancement bonus you should get for your wealth? Here's how to determine your magic armor bonus versus your wealth. Start with a +1 bonus. It's cheaper to get a ring of protection +1 and amulet of natural armor +1 (2000gp per armor bonus increase versus 3000gp to go from +1 to +2). So now you're up to 6650.
If you add anything else, you won't be able to afford the +4 stat booster. If you forgo the +4 stat booster for a +2, you get 12000 more to spend on armor. If you do that, you'll get the next level of armor (+2 full plate, 3000 more) plus a dusty rose prism ioun stone (5000 more). You also can get a +2 cloak of resistance (4000) So a +2 AC bonus and +2 to saves versus a +2 to Str. I like Str, but +2 AC *AND* +2 saves is huge.
Now you've got 173 left over. I'd spend some bucks on 3 oils of magic weapon. The rest goes into mundane gear/spare cash.
So:
18380 +3 elven curved blade
5650 +2 full plate
5000 dusty rose prism ioun stone (+1 insight AC)
4000 +2 cloak of resistance
4000 +2 belt of strength
3080 adamantine curved blade
2000 +1 RoP
2000 +1 amulet of natural armor
560 MW alchemical silvered blade
500 MW Composite Longbow 1
460 MW cold iron blade
180 MW tower shield
150 3 oils of magic weapon
23 mundane gear/spare cash
15 longsword
2 dagger
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One option is to get a MW alchemical silver blade (560), a MW cold iron blade (460), and an adamantine blade (3080). You also need a ranged weapon (MW Composite Longbow 1, 500). Throw in some mundane weapons (a longsword to use with a shield, and a dagger).
I would make the +3 weapon adamantine and stick with silver sheen. As for mundane weapons, I would get a short sword and 2 daggers. If you see a range weapon as being very useful, combo it with the magic oil.
So:
18380 +3 elven curved blade
5650 +2 full plate
5000 dusty rose prism ioun stone (+1 insight AC)
4000 +2 cloak of resistance
4000 +2 belt of strength
2000 +1 RoP
2000 +1 amulet of natural armor
Everything else on this list make sense, minus the ioun stone. I think 5K for 1 AC is too expensive. I recommend getting gloves of dueling instead, which increases your weapon training bonus by +2. What is RoP?
+2 full plate is pretty good, but base on the campaign, you might get plenty of cool full plates from dead enemies (I got a +3 Celestial Full Plate one time). If that's the case, you might want to stick with regular full plate until you can snag a better one from your victim. Just a thought.
Also, if you're going ahead and buying an adamantine weapon, why not enchant the adamantine weapon? It's better all around, plus you don't need to swap out for it, and you KEEP all of those nice and expensive enchantments. Then you merely need to use Silversheen to make it overcome silver if it's not a +3 enhancement weapon, and carry a cold iron if you really think you need it. If it's a +3 enhancement, then you only need the one weapon since it will overcome adamantine, cold iron, and silver.
Sorry, I'm a bit paranoid from anti-magic field shenanigans (and I always forget about the PF rules for enhancement bonuses beating DR) :) Yes, that is the more cost efficient route. You'll end up saving 1400 gold that way. . .
Everything else on this list make sense, minus the ioun stone. I think 5K for 1 AC is too expensive. I recommend getting gloves of dueling instead, which increases your weapon training bonus by +2. What is RoP?
The cheapest alternative to boost AC is to boost the enhancement bonus of the armor to a +3 (+5000) or the ioun stone (5000). But the ioun stone gives a bonus to CMD and works while flat-footed. . . . for the same cost. It's superior to going from +1 to +2 on a natural armor amulet -- and it's 1000gp cheaper than going from +1 to +2 on a ring of protection (RoP).
That's definitely a tougher trade off between the 15k gloves (effective +2 hit/damage, some good miscellaneous features) and +2 saves and +2 AC. I think the gloves probably win there. . . but it's pretty close.
I guess I'd switch out the weapons for a single +3 adamantine elven curved blade (gain 1400), remove the ioun stone, lower the full plate to +1, add gloves of dueling, and lower the cloak of protection from +2 to +1. 400 gp left over for a potion of invisibility and maybe 2 potions of protection from evil. Sound good?