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Don't have time for the underwater stuff right now, sorry.
Fireballs and other area effect spells... So fighting in close quarters against large (tall) creatures.. Nowhere does it state if the effect is "ball" shaped or "disk" shaped. If anything, it sounds like more like the latter.. So the party started throwing fireballs in the tall creatures face, and thus above the party members themselves..
Has anyone run into this as well as a sort of loophole? How do you handle it? Just by making area spells work as an "infinite pillar" in a game technical perspective?.
The spell has an area of a 20' radius spread from an intersection point. While I suspect that the original SRD rules kinda assumed actions at ground level, discussions regarding 3-D activity over the last 10 years or so have established an understanding that the grid isn't just at ground level. The result is that it is reasonable to select a grid point above ground level, such that the radius doesn't do anything at ground level or has a smaller area of effect for the "disk" at ground level.
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Don't have time for the underwater stuff right now, sorry.
Fireballs and other area effect spells... So fighting in close quarters against large (tall) creatures.. Nowhere does it state if the effect is "ball" shaped or "disk" shaped. If anything, it sounds like more like the latter.. So the party started throwing fireballs in the tall creatures face, and thus above the party members themselves..
Has anyone run into this as well as a sort of loophole? How do you handle it? Just by making area spells work as an "infinite pillar" in a game technical perspective?.The spell has an area of a 20' radius spread from an intersection point. While I suspect that the original SRD rules kinda assumed actions at ground level, discussions regarding 3-D activity over the last 10 years or so have established an understanding that the grid isn't just at ground level. The result is that it is reasonable to select a grid point above ground level, such that the radius doesn't do anything at ground level or has a smaller area of effect for the "disk" at ground level.
The easiest part is this:
Burst, Emanation, or Spread: Most spells that affect an area function as a burst, an emanation, or a spread. In each case, you select the spell's point of origin and measure its effect from that point.
A burst spell affects whatever it catches in its area, including creatures that you can't see. It can't affect creatures with total cover from its point of origin (in other words, its effects don't extend around corners). The default shape for a burst effect is a sphere, but some burst spells are specifically described as cone-shaped. A burst's area defines how far from the point of origin the spell's effect extends.
An emanation spell functions like a burst spell, except that the effect continues to radiate from the point of origin for the duration of the spell. Most emanations are cones or spheres.
A spread spell extends out like a burst but can turn corners. You select the point of origin, and the spell spreads out a given distance in all directions. Figure the area the spell effect fills by taking into account any turns the spell effect takes.
Since Spreads and emanations are both versions of a burst, and unless specified otherwise in the spell, all bursts are a sphere...
To not be effected by the fireball, you would have to target at least 20' up.
I've run a couple of underwater adventures lately myself. It can make melee combat a chore without the right weapons.
Holding your breath for a normal combat (4-6 rounds) is quite doable in PF, you're right. But underwater combat also involves a fair number of other mechanics...swim checks to not start sinking or be swept away for one (and don't forget armor check penalties!). Even with successful swim checks, movement is generally poor for armored characters underwater (5' with a move action).
Fighting underwater with melee weapons is done at -2 to attack and only half damage unless they are using piercing weapons. Ranged weapons are generally very difficult to use underwater, and you flat out can't use thrown weapons. Spellcasters don't really have it much easier, since they have to roll concentration checks in order to cast spells (assuming they are holding their breath, anyway).
I recently had a pair of melee types fight a water elemental underwater. Let me tell you, that was one heckuva battle! Water elementals in their element are not to be taken lightly (akin to air elementals in their element). /salute!
First up is fighting in water.. We had an encounter where a player was dragged into a deep water pool by a amphibious creature.. We looked up the rules to continue the fight, and they looked really odd.. What we came away with that the players could hold their breath for more than enough rounds, and could easily use their weapons in water. It was only some concealment to take care of when using melee weapons under water. It was basically just like on land except for LOS and LOE for spellcasters and ranged damage- and that didn't make sense to me at all. What did I miss..
3D. Underwater combat is sort of like a more restrictive aerial combat. Important things to remember about 3D combat is that a small or medium sized creature exists in a 5-foot cube (5x5x5) and large creatures exist in a 10-foot cube (10x10x10). Movement requires swim checks and water currents are important to remember.
You seem to understand the weapon rules and how spells work. Just remember that fire spells create steam instead, but otherwise work the same.
Dosgamer got the rest.
Can someone point me to the rules for this? I had no idea about the -2 on everything but piercing for one..
And the spellrules are confusing.. I read the steam part of a fireball, but it also states that fireballs need line of effect and that water block it.. So you could really only cast the fireball just above the water, and get the steam effect "below" it..
The surface blocks line of effect for fire spells, but you can certainly cast a fire spell while underwater (if you make the CL check), in which case the surface doesn't come into play (unless it was directed towards an area out of the water).
Can someone point me to the rules for this? I had no idea about the -2 on everything but piercing for one..
Don't forget the half damage! One of my other underwater combats pitted the PCs against some scrags (river trolls) and only doing half damage made the trolls much more difficult to defeat. That is, until they lured the trolls out of the water.