I know, I know, I've made a thread about this before, but I just found something that explains what I had in mind better than I did before, so before you tell me to give it a rest, just give it a chance.
I ran into this article the other day for 4E (please don't murder me). It provides the 4E races that usually have fixed ability scores with an alternative to choose from, although they will always have a fixed ability score. So the halfling that usually gets +2 DEX +2 CHA can also have the option to have +2 DEX +2 CON. The dexterity bonus is fixed, but it can choose between the either charisma or constitution as his secondary score.
I personally think this is pretty cool, as it allows greater versatility for races that aren't human, half-elf or half-orc. Furthermore, since Pathfinder has negative ability modifiers for races as well, this could work for that as well.
You might be thinking that this all sounds a bit power-gamey, but I do think it has merits for fluff as well. I don't think every single group of a race should have the exact same modifiers to abilities. A little variety wouldn't hurt.
Would you like to see a similar option for Pathfinder races, and if so, what alternative options would you like to see? I'd like to see the following:
Dwarf: +2 Con +2 Wis -2 Dex
I'd love to play a dwarf that didn't get a penalty to charisma. Playing a dwarf paladin or an oracle with the stone revelation or a sorcerer with the earth bloodline would become a lot more appealing, and we'd get more use of those alternate racial bonuses the APG granted dwarves.
Gnome: +2 Con +2 Int -2 Str
Two words: Gnome illusionists. I would love for them to become popular again, as it's one of the most classic D&D archetype I know of. It might be a bit too good for wizards (and alchemists) though, so I'm kind of on the fence. The Int bonus might replace the Con bonus instead, if that'd be better.
Elf +2 Dex +2 Wis -2 Con
I think this is a lot more appropriate for elves that live in the wilderness than an intelligence bonus is. Elves would make (even more) kickass druids and rangers than they already are, and it'd be an attractive bonus for clerics as well.
4E (please don't murder me)
You're dealing with 4e. Killing you would be a mercy. Since I'm far too brave to show mercy, I'll let you live.
I might viciously torture you, though.
Anyway, I do something similar in my house rules. However, I don't let them choose a different bonus. Instead, they get to choose what ability is penalised.
Humans/Half-elves: No change.
Half-orcs: Either no change (if they take more after their human parent) or +2 Str +2 Wis -2 Int/Cha (if they're more orcish)
Elf: +2 Dex +2 Int -2 Str/Con
Halfling: +2 Dex +2 Cha -2 Str/Wis
Gnome: +2 Con +2 Cha -2 Str/Wis
Dwarf: +2 Cha +2 Wis -2 Dex/Cha
If I were to assess alternate bonuses to the races, I'd do this:
Elf: +2 Dex +2 Int/Cha -2 Con
Halfling: +2 Dex +2 Wis/Cha -2 Str
Gnome: +2 Con/Dex +2 Cha -2 Str
Dwarf: +2 Str/Con +2 Wis -2 Ch
You're dealing with 4e. Killing you would be a mercy. Since I'm far too brave to show mercy, I'll let you live.
I might viciously torture you, though.
Thank you kindly.
Halfling: +2 Dex +2 Wis/Cha -2 Str
Ooh, I like this one. It makes sense that since halflings in Golarion are a somewhat oppressed race that not all of them would be sociable but alert and wary instead.
Anyway, I do something similar in my house rules. However, I don't let them choose a different bonus. Instead, they get to choose what ability is penalised.
Awesome Idea! And a great way to do the dreaded 'sub-races'.
On a somewhat related note, I'd like for half-elves to be able to get two favored class bonuses for a single class instead of getting two favored classes. I don't think it would be imbalanced at all, and it would make them a more attractive option.
The problem with giving that to half elves is that it makes it crazy for them to multi-class. It gives them really good stuff for being specialists, which doesn't fit their racial flavour. That, and I really dislike anything that gives you the choice between a weak option and a powerful option. Getting two favoured class bonuses at every level is twice as good as the normal half-elf ability.
I've been planning to use a rule that gives halflings cha/wis, elves int/wis, dwarves -cha/-dex and gnomes int/cha for a while now. I think it should be great, but I'm not about to start a campaign.
EDIT: Oh, and what does everyone think about giving the humans +1 to any two scores instead of a single +2?
The problem with giving that to half elves is that it makes it crazy for them to multi-class. It gives them really good stuff for being specialists, which doesn't fit their racial flavour. That, and I really dislike anything that gives you the choice between a weak option and a powerful option. Getting two favoured class bonuses at every level is twice as good as the normal half-elf ability.
I've been planning to use a rule that gives halflings cha/wis, elves int/wis, dwarves -cha/-dex and gnomes int/cha for a while now. I think it should be great, but I'm not about to start a campaign.
EDIT: Oh, and what does everyone think about giving the humans +1 to any two scores instead of a single +2?
I guess you're right about the half-elves. I just dislike how one of their big racial traits forces them to multi-class to have any effect at all.
And I don't see any problems with giving humans +1 to any two scores. Seems alright in the right situations.
EDIT: Oh, and what does everyone think about giving the humans +1 to any two scores instead of a single +2?
I guess you're right about the half-elves. I just dislike how one of their big racial traits forces them to multi-class to have any effect at all.
And I don't see any problems with giving humans +1 to any two scores. Seems alright in the right situations.
I look it at is them having the option to multiclass without losing as much as another race.
It makes point buy easier for the player. Humans are good enough as. The advantage is not big, but I just consider them the best race and I don't like the idea of improving them.archer 20 point buy
str 14+2(16) worth 5 points of point buy
dex 16
con 14
int 10
wis 10
cha 10
new method
str 15+1(16) worth 6 points of point buy
dex 15+1(16)
con 14
int 11
wis 10
cha 10
... Dwarf: +2 Cha +2 Wis -2 Dex/Cha
If I were to assess alternate bonuses to the races, I'd do ...
Did you mean +2 Con, perhaps??
Just wondering...
Otherwise I like your take on alternate stat bonuses/ penalties.
-- C.
EDIT: Oh, and what does everyone think about giving the humans +1 to any two scores instead of a single +2?
The wrongness of this idea is staggering :P.
The +2 instead of +1 to everything is there for a reason. That way you always get the same out of the bonus (i.e. +1 to the modifier).
Did you mean +2 Con, perhaps??... Dwarf: +2 Cha +2 Wis -2 Dex/Cha
If I were to assess alternate bonuses to the races, I'd do ...
Of course! I was wondering when someone was going to notice this error, which I introduced intentionally.... <_<
The wrongness of this idea is staggering :P.
Hee. At first, +2 is always a modifier 1 higher, yes, but as soon as you increase your score it stops being consistent and could either raise your modifier or leave it the same. I'm not sure the consistency really matters if it's not going to last.
I can understand wraithstrike's power concerns too, but I wasn't talking about making it an option. I was talking about completely replacing their +2 bonus, So sometimes it will still be worth marginally more point-buy points, but very often it will be worth less, so since you'd be stuick with it, it would average out nicely.
The idea behind the suggestion is to make the other races genuinely better at the things they're supposed to be better at, so elves can be more graceful than the most graceful of humans, dwarves can be tougher etc etc. Obviously, the humans still need to be as good overall as the other races, so making them more rounded as opposed to variably specialised seemed like the obvious thing to do.