Well basically I'm thinking about making a Arcane Duelist and i read this.
"At 5th level, an arcane duelist gains the arcane bond ability as a wizard, using a weapon as his bonded item. He may not choose a familiar or other type of bonded item. He may use the hand holding his bonded weapon for somatic components."
So I can preform somatic component with any weapon I have bonded to.
But what about focus and material components. Do I need a free hand for them? Can I cast spells with F or C if I have a bonded Great Sword for example?
Yes, you can cast.
I would say yes, you can still cast spells that require components. The main reason for this, is the fact that only holding a two handed sword, dosnt require two hands, attacking with it does. So basicly u can use one hand to hold the sword and one hand for components to cast a spell, then when you want to attack use two hands on the weapon. This would make it function like a paladin using lay on hands and wielding a two handed weapon, he has a free hand when he needs it to cast. Do notice that you cant cast and attack at the same time anyway.
How the skill would function for a arcane duelist bard with a large shield and a longsword as bonded item, is a bit of a gray area imo, as the bard cant really use components while casting.
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This was discussed at some length a while back. The devs had said no on this, as per this entry:
Weapons acquired at 1st level are not made of any special material. If the object is an amulet or ring, it must be worn to have effect, while staves, wands, and weapons must be wielded. If a wizard attempts to cast a spell without his bonded object worn or in hand, he must make a concentration check or lose the spell. The DC for this check is equal to 20 + the spell's level. If the object is a ring or amulet, it occupies the ring or neck slot accordingly.
Wielding a two handed weapon requires two hands. Holding it requires 1 hand. It specifically states weapons must be wielded. By definition, to wield is to handle effectively. The DMs are free to house-rule it to be able to.
EDIT: Located the relevant post.
generally speaking you can cast spells with a 2h weapon no problem.
Howe er if a bonded weapon requires you wield it not just hold it this might be an issue. though I don't know the relevant rule.
I would say yes, you can still cast spells that require components. The main reason for this, is the fact that only holding a two handed sword, dosnt require two hands, attacking with it does. So basicly u can use one hand to hold the sword and one hand for components to cast a spell, then when you want to attack use two hands on the weapon. This would make it function like a paladin using lay on hands and wielding a two handed weapon, he has a free hand when he needs it to cast. Do notice that you cant cast and attack at the same time anyway.
How the skill would function for a arcane duelist bard with a large shield and a longsword as bonded item, is a bit of a gray area imo, as the bard cant really use components while casting.
Well the problem with that conclusion is that
If the object is an amulet or ring, it must be worn to have effect, while staves, wands, and weapons must be wielded.
Q: If you have a two-handed bonded weapon as a wizard can you let go of it with one had to cast spells and still be considered wielding it?
A: (James Jacobs 3/8/10) An arcane bonded weapon must be wielded in order for it to have effect. This, unfortunately, does mean that two-handed weapons make for relatively poor bonded objects, since they'd limit your spellcasting to things without somatic components. Carrying a two-handed weapon in one hand isn't "wielding" it... you're just carrying it. You have to have both hands to cast spells with a two-handed weapon bonded object.
So I can't hold the weapon I one hand to cast the spell, but I don't need to. Because of this this exception "He may use the hand holding his bonded weapon for somatic components." that Arcane Duelist's has.
What I'm asking about is whether I need a free hand to hold/prepare material and/or focus components and thus won't be able to wield my two-handed bonded weapon.
Maybe I should have been clearer about this I my first post.
From the PRD
"Somatic (S): A somatic component is a measured and precise movement of the hand. You must have at least one hand free to provide a somatic component.
Material (M): A material component consists of one or more physical substances or objects that are annihilated by the spell energies in the casting process. Unless a cost is given for a material component, the cost is negligible. Don't bother to keep track of material components with negligible cost. Assume you have all you need as long as you have your spell component pouch.
Focus (F): A focus component is a prop of some sort. Unlike a material component, a focus is not consumed when the spell is cast and can be reused. As with material components, the cost for a focus is negligible unless a price is given. Assume that focus components of negligible cost are in your spell component pouch."
It specifically states you need a free hand for somatic components (which the special rule for arcane duelist over-rules) but material components and foci just mentione you having to have them, not hold them. By raw I dont think you need a free hand for material components or foci.
From the PRD
"Somatic (S): A somatic component is a measured and precise movement of the hand. You must have at least one hand free to provide a somatic component.Material (M): A material component consists of one or more physical substances or objects that are annihilated by the spell energies in the casting process. Unless a cost is given for a material component, the cost is negligible. Don't bother to keep track of material components with negligible cost. Assume you have all you need as long as you have your spell component pouch.
Focus (F): A focus component is a prop of some sort. Unlike a material component, a focus is not consumed when the spell is cast and can be reused. As with material components, the cost for a focus is negligible unless a price is given. Assume that focus components of negligible cost are in your spell component pouch."
It specifically states you need a free hand for somatic components (which the special rule for arcane duelist over-rules) but material components and foci just mentione you having to have them, not hold them. By raw I dont think you need a free hand for material components or foci.
Well, you have come to the same conclusion as myself.
I'm not so sure that this was Paizo's intent, but it's not like this is the weirdest thing in PF. ^_^
Well basically I'm thinking about making a Arcane Duelist and i read this.
"At 5th level, an arcane duelist gains the arcane bond ability as a wizard, using a weapon as his bonded item. He may not choose a familiar or other type of bonded item. He may use the hand holding his bonded weapon for somatic components."
So I can preform somatic component with any weapon I have bonded to.
Exactly, you can do so. Interesting that a bard may do that whilst a wzízard may not :-)
But what about focus and material components. Do I need a free hand for them? Can I cast spells with F or C if I have a bonded Great Sword for example?
I think that foci must be present somewhere on the body where you can see them, like a holy symbol. So you cannot hide them into your pockets or such, but you do not necessarily have to hold them in a hand.
Material components is another story, you require a free hand for that IMO. But all it requires is that you take the feat Eschew Materials and you are fine.
Well basically I'm thinking about making a Arcane Duelist and i read this.
"At 5th level, an arcane duelist gains the arcane bond ability as a wizard, using a weapon as his bonded item. He may not choose a familiar or other type of bonded item. He may use the hand holding his bonded weapon for somatic components."
So I can preform somatic component with any weapon I have bonded to.
Exactly, you can do so. Interesting that a bard may do that whilst a wzízard may not :-)
But what about focus and material components. Do I need a free hand for them? Can I cast spells with F or C if I have a bonded Great Sword for example?I think that foci must be present somewhere on the body where you can see them, like a holy symbol. So you cannot hide them into your pockets or such, but you do not necessarily have to hold them in a hand.
Material components is another story, you require a free hand for that IMO. But all it requires is that you take the feat Eschew Materials and you are fine.
Rationally you do need a free hand, but the whole point of the Re-worded arcane bond is to allow you to weild your weapon and cast spells at the same time, it really ought to cover components as well if you ask me. But then again I felt the whole distinction between weilding and holding was a little silly to begin with.
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Spell Component Text (spoiler tags added to quote):"Somatic (S): A somatic component is a measured and precise movement of the hand. You must have at least one hand free to provide a somatic component.Material (M): A material component consists of one or more physical substances or objects that are annihilated by the spell energies in the casting process. Unless a cost is given for a material component, the cost is negligible. Don't bother to keep track of material components with negligible cost. Assume you have all you need as long as you have your spell component pouch.
Focus (F): A focus component is a prop of some sort. Unlike a material component, a focus is not consumed when the spell is cast and can be reused. As with material components, the cost for a focus is negligible unless a price is given. Assume that focus components of negligible cost are in your spell component pouch."
It specifically states you need a free hand for somatic components (which the special rule for arcane duelist over-rules) but material components and foci just mentione you having to have them, not hold them. By raw I dont think you need a free hand for material components or foci.
While I appreciate the lack of text in the spell component descriptions regarding the need for a hand, there is also a free action listing for preparing spell components, such as materials or foci. I understand that preparation to require some manipulation, not merely mental action. I appreciate that this may come down to a RAW/RAI bit to some, but I also think it is a level of fine-reading that is beyond my comfort level to suggest that material components in spell component pouch are never taken out of that pouch to use.
It specifically states you need a free hand for somatic components (which the special rule for arcane duelist over-rules) but material components and foci just mentione you having to have them, not hold them. By raw I dont think you need a free hand for material components or foci.
I'm just getting into the Pathfinder novels, and in Prince of Wolves the main character makes a comment about how he needs to have material components 'on his person' just like a traditional spellcaster. And when casting spells later, specifically does NOT dig them out and use them...
I think that Pathfinder doesnt' feel like messing with material components the way 2E did.. If you bought them... you have them... your good.
Material components are kind of there becasue they are tradition... but they didn't want to deal with them.
I got around it primarily by using a longsword as my main weapon.
Since it can be used 1 handed or 2 handed I was always "wielding it" even in one hand, but could two-fer it for the extra damage as required.
-S
I got around it primarily by using a longsword as my main weapon.
Since it can be used 1 handed or 2 handed I was always "wielding it" even in one hand, but could two-fer it for the extra damage as required.
-S
Alternatively one can also use a feat to gain exotic weapon proficiency:bastard sword or a similar weapon, if base damage or using a big bad weapon was the aim :-)
I generally prefer non-two-handed weapons anyway as it allows for more options in gameplay (using wands, potions, extra weapon, shield etc.)
For AP's or any sort of pre-fab adventure you can't go wrong with the longsword and greatsword. They just seem to fall out of trees sometimes whereas other weapon types, especially ones from odd books, are never found without DM Fiat. (not that DM fiat is bad in this regard).
The character in question, before his demise, had something like 4 longswords on him for various reasons and metal DR's.. most of which had been haphazardly found on the adventure rather than purchased specifically by me.
-S
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I just noticed this thread is related to something I'm doing with a Cavalier/Arcane Duelist I'm developing. Now, it seems to me the Deulist's Arcane Bond is actually sort of a backward step for the bard.
Prior to gaining the Arcane Bond, the bard has no trouble casting spells without her weapon. After gaining the bond, it seems she suddenly has to make a DC20+CL check any time she doesn't have her weapon handy. What changes to make casting spells suddenly become so difficult? The Arcane Bond abilities are worth having but, aside from imagining the Duelist has to sacrifice her spellcasting freedom for the bond, I'm not making the connection.
I think our group is simply going to rule nothing changes. The bard can still cast spells as normal, but needs the weapon to cast the extra spell per day.
While I appreciate the lack of text in the spell component descriptions regarding the need for a hand, there is also a free action listing for preparing spell components, such as materials or foci. I understand that preparation to require some manipulation, not merely mental action. I appreciate that this may come down to a RAW/RAI bit to some, but I also think it is a level of fine-reading that is beyond my comfort level to suggest that material components in spell component pouch are never taken out of that pouch to use.
Right but does the free action then make it so you are not 'weilding the weapon. Even if they come out of the pouch, do they take up a 'hand'. It is a free action to retrieve them and put them back, so can you do the following:
1 - Hold Weapon in one hand
2 - Free action draw component/focus
3 - Return to holding weapon with 2 hands with the component also in your hand and thus both have the component in hand and be 'weilding' a twohanded weapon
4 - Actually cast the spell.
Based on both RAW and what is intended in the Arcane Bond description, I would say you can.