Tin Golem

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Kolokotroni wrote:

From the PRD

"Somatic (S): A somatic component is a measured and precise movement of the hand. You must have at least one hand free to provide a somatic component.

Material (M): A material component consists of one or more physical substances or objects that are annihilated by the spell energies in the casting process. Unless a cost is given for a material component, the cost is negligible. Don't bother to keep track of material components with negligible cost. Assume you have all you need as long as you have your spell component pouch.

Focus (F): A focus component is a prop of some sort. Unlike a material component, a focus is not consumed when the spell is cast and can be reused. As with material components, the cost for a focus is negligible unless a price is given. Assume that focus components of negligible cost are in your spell component pouch."

It specifically states you need a free hand for somatic components (which the special rule for arcane duelist over-rules) but material components and foci just mentione you having to have them, not hold them. By raw I dont think you need a free hand for material components or foci.

Well, you have come to the same conclusion as myself.

I'm not so sure that this was Paizo's intent, but it's not like this is the weirdest thing in PF. ^_^

nicklas Læssøe wrote:

I would say yes, you can still cast spells that require components. The main reason for this, is the fact that only holding a two handed sword, dosnt require two hands, attacking with it does. So basicly u can use one hand to hold the sword and one hand for components to cast a spell, then when you want to attack use two hands on the weapon. This would make it function like a paladin using lay on hands and wielding a two handed weapon, he has a free hand when he needs it to cast. Do notice that you cant cast and attack at the same time anyway.

How the skill would function for a arcane duelist bard with a large shield and a longsword as bonded item, is a bit of a gray area imo, as the bard cant really use components while casting.

Well the problem with that conclusion is that

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard#TOC-Arcane-Bond-Ex-or-S p- wrote:
If the object is an amulet or ring, it must be worn to have effect, while staves, wands, and weapons must be wielded.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/pathfinder-faq#TOC-Arcane-Bond wrote:

Q: If you have a two-handed bonded weapon as a wizard can you let go of it with one had to cast spells and still be considered wielding it?

A: (James Jacobs 3/8/10) An arcane bonded weapon must be wielded in order for it to have effect. This, unfortunately, does mean that two-handed weapons make for relatively poor bonded objects, since they'd limit your spellcasting to things without somatic components. Carrying a two-handed weapon in one hand isn't "wielding" it... you're just carrying it. You have to have both hands to cast spells with a two-handed weapon bonded object.

So I can't hold the weapon I one hand to cast the spell, but I don't need to. Because of this this exception "He may use the hand holding his bonded weapon for somatic components." that Arcane Duelist's has.

What I'm asking about is whether I need a free hand to hold/prepare material and/or focus components and thus won't be able to wield my two-handed bonded weapon.

Maybe I should have been clearer about this I my first post.

Well basically I'm thinking about making a Arcane Duelist and i read this.

"At 5th level, an arcane duelist gains the arcane bond ability as a wizard, using a weapon as his bonded item. He may not choose a familiar or other type of bonded item. He may use the hand holding his bonded weapon for somatic components."

So I can preform somatic component with any weapon I have bonded to.

But what about focus and material components. Do I need a free hand for them? Can I cast spells with F or C if I have a bonded Great Sword for example?

Abraham spalding wrote:

Kobolds offer their own unique problems when it comes to raising children. Kobolds need society and meaningful work almost as much as they need food and warmth. Due to their quick aging processes the children are typically capable of much more earlier than many humanoids realize. Dwarves have perhaps the easiest time with raising kobolds due to a similar cultural work ethic and communal attitude.

The biggest dangers to raising kobolds come from the outside and basic kobold psychology. Kobolds never do completely lose their paranoid tendencies and if one of the children are hurt outside of the rules of what their society allows they tend to take it as a slight to all the kobolds present. Kobolds still recognize themselves as 'different' than their adopted parents and if many kobolds are present will start having 'secret meetings' regardless of what is done to prevent this. If the kobolds feel they are being misused (either through exploitation, or not being worked enough) they start turning inward for new leadership. This can be partially prevented by regular honest discussions with the kobold children about how they feel about their environment, working conditions, and the outcome of their efforts.

Good stuff all in all. But in classic monsters revisited it says that kobolds can live for 120 to 130 years, and if you wanna get old school ADnD 1 kobolds can live for 900, well unless a lvl 1 fighter gets their hands on them.

I have an idea for the orphanage where the kobolds/goblins would grow up. Make sure that the staff is a mix of small, medium, and if possible lager people that treat the children and each other with respect. Hopefully that will curb some if the tendency that kobolds and goblins have to resent larger folk.

Wow, this was thread was a really good read, funny, interesting and thought-provoking.

I think I'll have a crack at kobolds when I have done some more reading on them, especially any Golarion Kobold fluff there is.

Hippygriff wrote:
PRD wrote:
Rage Powers (Ex): The following new rage powers can be taken by any barbarian that meets the prerequisites. Totem rage powers grant powers in a theme. A barbarian cannot select from more than one group of totem rage powers. For example, a barbarian that selects a beast totem rage power cannot later chose to gain any of the spirit totem rage powers.

Hmm, never noticed that, well thanks for pointing it out to me. :)

Looking quite good so far, you did miss somethings, like dwarfs and half-orcs being abel to pick an extra turn of rage as there favored class bonus. One more think about half-orcs, they can get a bite attack as a alternative racial traits or feat.

But I have one question

Elewan's Pathfinder Barbarian Guide wrote:
Lesser Fiend Totem You grow horns and get a gore attack. This would be awesome if you could have this and the Beast Totem, but you can't.

Why can't you pick this and beast totem? Are you saying that there are better picks or that there is a legal reasion for this?

Last but not least, I know that you havn't goten to det gear yet but I think that you should mention the Fauchard: 1d10 dmg 18-20/x2 ctir and is has reach and trip. It's an exotic weapon from Classic Horrors Revisited so it's made by Paizo but I guess that some DM won't aloe it.

wraithstrike wrote:

Everyone can just take a move action to move out of the the darkened area. It is only a 20 ft radius. Pound the darkened area with AoE's.

The spell is not good enough to make a CR 6 fight into a CR 9 one. He will still get his butt kicked one way or another.

The assassin will use Deeper Darkness, radius 60. Also this fight won't take place on a open field but on the tight streets of a medieval town. Still I see what you are getting at.

So what should I do about it, lower the assassins level by one and add another one?

Thanks for all the feedback.

Fist of, I made a big mistake in my fist post. I forgot to mention the ex-Gnome Tengu word-caster sorcerer lvl 7. I was bit tierd when I made the post I guess. Sorry about that.

I had a look at the players character sheets and nobody in the party even know dispel magic (except the druid, and he hasn't got it prepared). So I guess that the Deeper Darkness getting dispelled won't happen. Not that the assassin knows that.

From what you all have said it is obvious that the assassin needs to strike at night. My plan was for the party to meet up with the new witch in a seedy part of town, looks like that meeting will take place at night.

So with this in mind, do I need to make some changes?

PS This isn't about revenge as DM. The party pissed of a crazy cult and they wan't some payback

Hi I'm gonna run a session on Sunday with my group of players and I'll more or less start it with them attacked by an assassin.

The problem is that this is the first assassination that I have ever made and I don't want it to be too easy/hard.

The party:
Conjuration Wizard lvl 7
Wild-Shaping Druid (with animal companion) lvl 7
Witch lvl 7, this is a play that is new to pathfinder and playing caster.
Paladin lvl 7, is supposed to be the tank.

The Assassin:
Is a Dark Stalker with 2 levels in rogue.
His basic tactics will be to cast Deeper Darkness on himself when the party in a secluded part of "the town". He will then use the darkness to inflict as many doses of poison on the frailer party members as he can using Swift Poison to "reload" faster. The poison I'm thinking about using using is Black Smear—injury; save Fort DC 15; frequency 1/round for 6 rounds; effect 1d2 Str cure 1 save. If that doesn't work he'll just go to stabby-town on em.

Right now I'm working on the exact stats, I can post them tomorrow if you want em.

Brambleman wrote:
The Rules: Swift Actions pg 188 Core Rules wrote:
You can take a swift action anytime you would normally be allowed to take a free action.
The Rules: Free Actions pg 181 wrote:
You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally.
RAW supports your assertion. It seems your tactic is legal.

Thanks for the help man! :D

Hi I was trying to tweak a two-handed ranger for a gaming session tomorrow when I got an idea. Could I use a Dorn-Dergar with Darting Viper in the middle of a Great Cleave to change my reach and thus hit more people with my ball of hunting?

tl:dr Can I take a swift action in a standard action?

Rule citations would be really helpful as I haven't been able to find anything clear cut on this point.

xXxTheBeastxXx wrote:
Pendagast wrote:

you have to apply the modifiers in the side bar when you shift into a different era.

no one who would pay more for an antique firearm would use it combat or even fire it anyway.

Exactly the point I was making above. In the "Guns Everywhere" era, early firearms are antiques. It says so right in the description. Nobody would use a flintlock pistol in combat unless they were desperate when revolvers, rifles and shotguns are up-and-running.

By the way, quick side-note. Should shotguns, with two barrels, be able to pull the same trick as the double-barrel pistol, by firing both at once? It makes sense to me, but what about the rest of you folks?

-The Beast

Ye, I would but I'd add a bigger penalty to the shoot maybe like minus 6 or 7 to account for the bigger knock-back.

How would you do it if someone would load pellets in one barrel, a slug in the other and then pulls the trigger? I don't think that anyone would do that in real life but players tend to do some crazy things.

Abraham spalding wrote:

I can see the sneak attack to an extent -- about the same way I can see the arcane trickster's surprise spell happening. The Head shot with scattering I'll agree with is a bit odd -- but consider that the scatter gun could be a "wide" scatter instead of a "round" scatter by shaping the barrel. Then you aim at head level -- with that many pellets going at head level your bound to hit several heads.

I see the sneak attack being about the same way -- when you are flat footed you aren't ducking and weaving like you should -- and if everyone in a room is in that shape then you simply aim at head level when you pull the trigger -- those pellets are going to hurt people more catching them at head level instead of chest level.

I'm not saying that if you simply look at it as a "cone" attack that it isn't a little odd, but if you look at it as a cone simulating the area attack of a scattering blast -- one that is shaped and can be guided then it starts to make a bit more sense.

Well, now that you go into a bit more detail I guess that I could see sneaky shotgun attacks happening.

Abraham spalding wrote:
I mean heck at this point you might as well complain that you can critical different people with the scatter since you can't "aim" it to do so.

I have all ways seen crits as having a big luck component so I really don't mind criting a bucket load of people with a blunderbuss burst. ^_^

So I guess I'm a-okay with blunderbuss sneak attacks, but all the rogue are going to have to use silly duck looking guns!

Starglim wrote:


Maybe a better solution could be to standardise some weapon properties for ranged weapons (in general), listed in the same way as reach, disarm, trip, monk etc.:
  • light
  • two-handed (if neither light nor two-handed, it requires one hand to use)
  • thrown
  • load free (still requires two hands)
  • load move
  • load standard
  • load full
  • load special (if no load action stated, the weapon doesn't require loading and can be fired continuously with one hand)

You my good sir/madam is talking some good scenes, and thus I approve!

The deves should have probably have gone for something like this from the start but hindsight is +20 perception right? ;)

Abraham spalding wrote:

I would argue that hitting someone in a weak spot with scatter shot is going to hurt just as much if not more than hitting them with a sword --

Have you seen a human head after a 00 goes in one side and out the other?

Not Pretty.

Look now I'm not saying that you couldn't shove a scattergun up someones nose and pull of a sneak attack somehow. What I think is weird is being able to hit a maximum of four people in weak spots on their armors. It's not like you can remote control the pellets to his one guy's eye and another one's kidney. I guess that your explanation that you would go for head-shot could make scenes, but why wouldn't you be going for that all the time? Especially when you're shooting at someone 10 feet away.

I will freely admit that I have NO real experience shooting guns, it just feels wrong for someone to hit multiple weak spots with an inaccurate weapon like a blunderbuss.

What about Bleeding Wound.... no! Me complying about that is stupid, I misread the deed. However is it logical to use Targeting on several enemies? Head-shoots could make scenes but what about shooting everyone just in the arm, Lucky Luke couldn't pull that off.
Edited typos

I think that Paizo should clarify if you can or can't deal precision damage with a scatter attack. I would rule against it. Sneak attacks, atleast as I understand them, rely on some serious precision to work and I don't see that happening with a blunderbuss firing nails and sporks. ;)
I havn't seen any thing from the devs on this and I guess that it's okey by RAW but still.

But what about Bleeding Wounds or Targeting, getting every one in a 15 feet cone with one of those effects would be pretty crazy, especially because they don't rely on direct damage to mess things up. It's all in need of some clarification I think.

Edit: typos

First of i think that some clarification of what this feat lest you do would be good, and it's good of you to try and bring this to the developers attention. I can see a lot of people arguing about what exactly you can avoid using this feat, entangle and stone call comes to mind.

But I think that the intent of this feat was to let you go all John Woo, and if that means jumping 60 feat pits guns blasting away then I just have one thing to say: AWESOME!!!! =)

Ravingdork wrote:
I'm sure any properties you put on the weapon apply to both shooting and axing--provided it is legal of course (a ranged property won't help you if you are axing someone in melee, for example).

That isn't clearly stated in playtest document.

Ultimate Combat Playtest Round 2 Gunslinger PDF wrote:

This musket eatures an axe blade at the top of its barrel. It can also be used as a battleaxe. If this firearm gains the broken condition because of a misfire, it suffers from that condition both when used as a gun and

when used as a battleaxe.

I guess you could interpret the bit about the broken condition to mean that the gun bit and the axe bit are linked in a special way so that they would both be affected by the same weapon enchantment.

I however would just say that this is the blur haired stepchildren of the double weapon family, so you would need to enchant both "ends" separate.

I for one like the ability to master several weapons, it's useful to be good (not optimal just good) with several weapons right?

Some sort of +x to damage every y level would be motivated only IF we start seeing playtest and number crunching that shows that a fighter/gunslinger would blow a pure gunslinger out of the damage barrel.

If a damage boosting class feature is needed, then what about an ability that let's the gunslinger improve his gunpowder. It could boost the damage of all the gunslingers guns. I guess that the main advantage of this would be a way to differ this fluff from a Fighter.

Ye, seems you and me (and I think the rest of this board) interpreters the reloading rules the same way. ^^

Pendagast wrote:
Talynonyx wrote:
Pendagast wrote:

good suggestion.

I also suggest that the drop n plop not COST grit and only be if you have at least 1 grit left.
You are effectively tripping yourself, which sucks already, why spend resources to do it, for a single one time +4 to AC?

Because it can save your life. I did a playtest where the only point of Grit my gunslinger used was to drop prone, avoiding the killing shot from an archer fighter, then nailing him from the prone position. Prone is great when you are fighting at range. I'd never use it around melee enemies, but especially against a bow user, it's good. They can't do the same and continue fighting.

That said, the idea of using an AoO for something is awesome. Perhaps a covering shot deed, as long as you have Grit, you can make a ranged AoO at an appropriate penalty, but only provoked by ranged attacks and spellcasting? Perhaps one that only does half damage, but forces a concentration check? Spend a Grit point to completely stop the action? For one feat, you can turn your gunslinger into a pretty nice battlefield controller, one who doesn't have to be right in the enemy's face.

problem is, in normal game play, its soo soo rare to be outside of anyones movement rate in a combat, dropping prone means they are on you.

Well "normal game play" can be really different in different campaigns, if you're playing King Maker there will be plenty for random encounters the you spot from far away. Oh sure most people will be fighting in dungeons and similar terrain but I would have a guess and say the droping prone deed will see enough use to justify the two lines of text that it adds to the deed.

So i'm just done reading though the new playtest document and I got some questions.

#1 How come that the Axemusket deals 1d10 of damage compared to a regular Muskets 1d12, when the Axemusket cost 100 more gp?

Fluff wise this don't really makes any scenes. Would the presence of an Axe-bayonet thingy slow down the muzzle velocity of the gun or demand another modification like smaller diameter of the gun barrel?

Is there a game balance reason for this, would the ability to threaten the squares next to you be super duper imba? If you want there to be a trade off for the Battleaxe add-on what about shorter increments to simulate the aiming issues that a dead killy piece of iron at the muzzle a gun would cause.

#2 Can I combine Vital Strike with scatter weapons and what would happen?

There is no mention of this in the Scatter Special Quality text that I can see. Vital Strike says nothing about Vital Strike only targeting one creature. Dead Shot however do state that it can only target one thing.

So is "super blunderbust attack of vitality" legit and would it deal extra damage to every that gets hit in the cone?

Jadeite wrote:

Okay, I checked the average damage a 7th level musketeer would deal with Dead Shot under the following circumstances:

  • Target touch attack
  • 1.5 times Dexterity modifier
  • 3 points of damage per penalty with Deadly Aim
  • Only attacks he gains through BAB

The damage was about 55 which is quite good for the level but not utterly gamebreaking. It might be better, though, to keep Deadly Aim as it is.
The original pickle version of Dead Shot targeted normal AC which would drastically reduce the damage. Targeting Touch AC should be okay if other limitations are applied.
A grit cost would make a terrible balancing factor since it could be removed by level 11. Allowing additional attacks through Haste and Rapid Shot would be unbalancing. This version of Dead Shot should be limited to one critical hit, similar to Manyshot.
How about adding the option to spend a point of Grit to reload your weapon as part of the full round action? It would only be of use till 11th level, but it would allow a musketeer to use Dead Shot a bit more often. The normal grit cost should be removed, though.

Well fist of, if you remove the grit cost wouldn't you have to add a "you can use this deed as long as you have one point of grit." to keep it a deed? Minor detail but i feel that it should be pointed out.

All in all that actually looks pretty cool and I think that adding the "one crit per Dead Shot" makes a bucket-load more scenes then the way it's worded now. Good work! :)

Now that Jadeite has fixed Musketeers let's move on to the Axemusket and it's silly damage :P.

No problems man ^^.

I guess that it's beyond the scope of playtest material we have right now, but couldn't Paizo add a Pepperbox style rifle, call it a Peppercoffin or something silly like that, now that would let you get some Dakka going. But in the end I guess that a Peppercoffin would just delay the reloading headache a round or two.

Another thing that could be added is deeds that you only can preform if you use a musket. Things like sundering armors or creating a smoke screen with the black powder smoke from a shot would sort of make sense wouldn't it?

I'm pretty much brain storming right now, if you couldn't tell :).

Borthos Brewhammer wrote:
Moofire wrote:

I'm with ye Borthos, more musket love for the people!

The way I see it pistol builds are all about the dakka(aka shooting a lot) and that is something that muskets just can't deliver.

What I think that muskets should be doing better then pistols is range and precision, with their longer barrels and what not. It would be nice to see more deeds, feats or gear to support this.

If I where to make a musket using gunslinger I'd pick up Vital Strike, Rapid Reload and some Alch Cartridges. That way I would get the biggest bang for my action bucks. Come level 11 Lightning Reload would free up that move action for tactical movement.

I know that Dead Shot and Vital Strike are a lot alike, but Dead Shot costs grit and is a full-round action, not really something that you could base a build on until level 11 when you could get Signature Deed (Dead Shot). Although now that I look at it, a Dead Shoting musketslinger could be pretty nifty.

On a side note, what is up with the difference in damage that a Musket and Axemusket deals? I just can't see any real explanation for this, I could see how the Axemusket would be harder to aim and thus have shorter range increments but not how axe no musket = slower moving musket ball.

My opening post shows that even if you have Alch Cartridges, you still can't get over the one shot per round thing. Rapid Shot doesn't work with muskets

Ye, that why I said "fan ta det" to Rapid Shot and when for Vital Strike instead, Alch-Carts+Rapid Reload=reload as a move action and then you Vital Stike for your Standard action.

I'm with ye Borthos, more musket love for the people!

The way I see it pistol builds are all about the dakka(aka shooting a lot) and that is something that muskets just can't deliver.

What I think that muskets should be doing better then pistols is range and precision, with their longer barrels and what not. It would be nice to see more deeds, feats or gear to support this.

If I where to make a musket using gunslinger I'd pick up Vital Strike, Rapid Reload and some Alch Cartridges. That way I would get the biggest bang for my action bucks. Come level 11 Lightning Reload would free up that move action for tactical movement.

I know that Dead Shot and Vital Strike are a lot alike, but Dead Shot costs grit and is a full-round action, not really something that you could base a build on until level 11 when you could get Signature Deed (Dead Shot). Although now that I look at it, a Dead Shoting musketslinger could be pretty nifty.

On a side note, what is up with the difference in damage that a Musket and Axemusket deals? I just can't see any real explanation for this, I could see how the Axemusket would be harder to aim and thus have shorter range increments but not how axe no musket = slower moving musket ball.

Edit: Whow, when I started typing my reply there wasn't a single reply on this thread, guess I'm slow on the draw ^^.
Also damn you Jadeite for stealing my Vital Musketeer idea before I posted it ;P.

Hi this is my first attempt at a playtest for .. well anything, so be gentle with me ;).

!!!WARNING!!! This Playtest may contains spoilers for the Stolen Land adventure.

Extra warning, I'm dyslectic and english isn't my native language so there may be some spelling mistakes or weird expression. Hope they don't bug you to much.

The champaign that I'm playing in is started with the Stolen Land adventure but now it's branching of into a new brand of strangeness. Two game sessions ago my previous character got killed so I rolled up a Ninja because they looked to have some nifty abilitys and I wanted to contribute to the playtest.

Now that all the "backstory" stuff is deal with let's move on to...

My Ninja:
"Sven" aka "that ninja"
Male half-orc ninja 4
NG Medium humanoid (Orc)
Init +4 Senses Dark-Vision 60ft. Perception +7
AC 19, touch 14, flat-footed 15
hp (4d8+6) 35
Fort +3, Ref +9, Will +2
Spd 30ft.
Melee +1 Scimitar +9 (1d6+5)
Special Attacks sneak attack +2d6, ki pool: 5
Str 11, Dex 18, Con 13, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 16
Base Atk +3; CMB +3; CMD 17
Feats Weapon Finesse, Dervish Dance
Traits Herlom Weapon (Scimitar), Rostlander
Skills Acrobatics +11, Climb +7, Escape Artist +11, Knowledge: Local +7, Preform (Dance) +9, Perception +7, Stealth +11, Use Magic Device +10
Languages Common, Orcish
Gear +1 mithral chain shirt, +1 Scimitar, +1 Cloak of Resistance
Special Abilities vanishing trick (4r), shadow clone (1d4+1)

About the character generation of Sven: Firstly the people I play with use "roll 4d6 drop the lowest" method of ability score generation and I rolled 17,14,13,11,10,10. I put my Half-orc bouns in to Cha and my level 4 increase in Dex. (I guess that Half-Orcs from "Vague-Middle-East-Place" are real charmers =P.) Secondly, the gaming group decided that I could take the Dervish Dance because I have the Heirloom Weapon (Scimitar) trait, I don't if that is legal by RAW or RAI.

Svens "backstory": "Sven" come from the far of land known as "Vague-Middle-East-Place" where he learned the way of Assassin. Now he as come to the Stolen Lands kill do some killing. The name Sven is just a cover, too bad he has forgotten his real name =/.

The Party

Elyas, lvl 4 Human Druid and Ormen, his constrictor snake animal companion. Elyas is focused on Wild Shaping so his spellcasting is a bit weaker that it could have been. His go-to combat spell is Stone Call thanks to the big Aoe, no-save and difficult terrain that the spell brings. Ormen just slithers up to things and bites them in the head.

Hulungalom aka Lom, lvl 4 Gnome Wordcaster Sorcerer with the Red Dragon Bloodline. Lom is a dedicated blaster that can switch from a single target to a group on a round-to-round basis. He can inflict the Staggered condition on enemies quite easy.

I will split up the encounters into Combat and Social/Environment. Fist of the combat encounters.

All except one of the combat encounters where random encounters

All fights happened on different days so our HP spells and Ki where reset. I never use more then 3 Ki in one fight "just in case".

Combat encounter #1.
4 Standard Goblins and 1 Barghest

Start: The party spots a group of Goblins about 400ft. away, we walk closer to them to see if they have some cheese to sell (yes really), we don't see that the Barghest has cast Blink on itself. At about 150ft. the goblins spot us and shouts "Your gold and your life!". In the first round of combat the Barghest uses Dimension Door to get into melee with Lom. Elyas lest lose with a Stone Call that kills all the normal Goblins.

Middle: The rest of the combat consist of Lom 5ft.-steeping away from the Barghest and around Ormen, with the Barghest in hot pursuit trying to awods falnkings as best it can. Elyas, me and Ormen try to hit the Barghest but the Blink cause many misses and deny me sneak-attack damage. I rolled poorly on both attack and miss chance rolls.

End: The Berghest is killed after giving Lom a beating.

Damage dealt
Me Melee = 15 (all from one crit.)
Elyas Melee = 10 Spells = 32
-Ormen Melee = 11
Lom Melee = 0 Spells = 11

Combat encounter #2.
Baloden the robber wizard (lvl 5 human wizard) and 1 Nightmare.
(This was the only encounter the DM had prepared ahead of time.)

Start: As the party walks down a narrow woodland road we spots a man riding a Nightmare. We hide. The man on the Nightmare fly closer and shouts "I am Baloden the robber wizard and I'm gonna rob you". I'm the only one that managed to stay hidden as Baloden starts to sling spells.

Middle: Baloden fly around and cast Aqueous Orb/Stinking Cloud on poor Elyas, Ormen and Lom. I stay hidden and wait for Baloden to land so I can stab him (I didn't buy a bow because I was silly). When they aren't trapped in watery balls or coughing up bits of stinking could Lom and Elyas bombard Baloden with spells.

End: After getting hit with a 12 damage Stone Call Balodens Nightmare uses Plane Shift to get the heck out of dodge.

Damage dealt
Me Melee = 0(Yep =/)
Elyas Melee = 0 Spells = 38
-Ormen Melee = 0
Lom Melee = 0 Spells = 7

Combat encounter #3.
1 Chimera

Start: We spot the Chimera at 1100 ft. away and spread out in a triage with about 60ft. between us. The Chimera starts to dive and the caster ready there spells, I "cast" Shadow Clones.

Middle: As it descends the Chimera is hammered by Elyas and Loms spells. Thanks to the placement of a Stone Call the beast lands next to me. I take only 5 point of damage from the Chimeras full attack thanks to my Shadow Clones. Me and Ormen go head-to-head with the Chimera when it's on the ground.

End: Ormens biting and one criting sneak attack from me finishes the beast.

Damage dealt
Me Melee = 21
Elyas Melee = 0 Spells = 13
-Ormen Melee = 24
Lom Melee = 0 Spells = 32

Combat encounter #4.
12 Standard Orcs

Star: the Party is just about to make camp when we spot 12 orcs coming matching and singing.

Middle: Elyas cast Entangle.

End: Elyas cast Stone Call.

Damage Dealt
me Melee = 0
Elyas Melee = 0 Spells = 108
-Ormen Melee = 0
Lom Melee = 0 Spells = 0

Combat encounter #5.
1 Dire Lion

Star: The party is riding on a wagon. A Dire Lion pounces Lom.

Middle: Lom and Ormen pound the Lion.

End I manages to land the killing blow. (this was all over in two rounds)

Damage dealt
Me Melee = 15
Elyas Melee = 0 Spells = 0
-Ormen Melee = 23
Lom Melee = 0 Spells = 23

Total Damage Dealt
Me Melee = 51
Elyas Melee = 10 Spells = 83/191 (without/with the one round orc slaughter)
-Ormen Melee = 58
Lom Melee = 0 Spells = 73

My observations on the fights. Well two flying opponents didn't do wonder for my damage dealt, nor did that Blinking Barghest. Shadow Clones and Vanishing Trick where great survival tools. Shadow Clones gave me the stones to go into riskier situations then I would have if Sven was a Rogue. Extra-Ki-attack was a useful for making to most of my opportunity to deal sneak attack damage, I fell that my medium BaB kept the ability from going nuts. All in all the Ki poll is a really cool ability that gave me more things to do in fights.

The next game sessions will be a dungeon crawl so I look forward to see how I can do in can kind of environment as opposed to the open plan of random encounter that this game sessions was dominate by.

I'll post the Social/Environment encounters in a separate post later coss I'm hella sleepy right now.

Odentin wrote:

Gun upgrades:

Honestly, I love this idea too much to let it die. A gunslinger should be able to upgrade his gun, to make it better. Make it viable. Make it so that ONLY gunslingers can upgrade guns. Make it so that once a gun is upgraded, only a gunslinger can use it. Make it so that certain upgrades require a minimum level to take (or use).

This would remove the issue of having guns that were rare even in the real world available to everyone, while still giving the gunslinger a viable weapon. Give options for rifling, repeating (whether revolver or internal magazine), breech loading (which should increase misfire rate), double-barrel, blunderbuss, maybe even one for making the gun more reliable.

If Paizo where to implement a system like this I think that they need to make sure that Gunslingers have more options then just getting a cylinder magazine for their gun.

What about a larger caliber barrel that makes every shoot deal more damage but makes firing multiple shoots in a round impossible, or a scop that increases that damage you deal if you use Vital Strike?

The gun upgrades could also be added to the ammo or black powder. Things like exploding rounds, blessed black powder or the ability to shoot under water sounds quite nifty right?

All of this is probably really unrealistic but hey, if they add a upgrade that you hate, just ban it. =)

Dissinger wrote:
Or, I challenge all of you to actually create a valid argument for why your standard shop keep should buy ammo for a weapon that they may not carry, or ever find someone to buy for.

The shop keeper could simply melt the bulets for lead and barrels of black pouder is useful for all sorts of things like mining.

I would grant you that the slinger wouldn't get full price, but that's not a real problem when you can make all you want.

Personally I am more weary of a lvl 11 slinger making a couple millions and buy crazy gear/derail a campain setting, then he/she "just" retiring.

First of I just wanted to say that this was a really good read.

The idea of a gunslinger tinker with is gun is nifty, but being abel to pomp other guns might get out of hand. What's the point of playing a gunslinger if you can just buy his/her gun? What if upgrading added to a guns missfire value and every x level in Gunlinger lowered it? That would keep the Gunslinger as the prime gun-user class and still hold the door open for working on non-slinger guns.

Here are my two Ören.

1 I think that the addition of martial arts should add something more then a flat bonus to a certain combat maneuver or weapon. Is should be new, interesting, useful and fun to play, like pulling of an awesome throw, preforming deadly counter attacks or growing a new pair of claws.

2 When you work on designing martial arts for PF at least consider using two systems. For the more down-to-earth styles a do-it-yourself systemt seems like a good way to go and from this thread is sounds like something allot of people want. For the more unearthly and inhuman styles, like the awesome idea about fighting styles that match the eight schools of magic, a feat-chain system would allow for a more focused and controlled system.

3 Don't forget about the armed martial arts! I have practised Aikido, and during the training sesion we have gone through the same techniques unarmed and with a Jo or Bokken. Pleas don't make martial arts exclusively for unarmed combatants.

Hope this post makes some sense and that my dyslexia and not being a native English speaker don't inflict to much pain on a read. =)