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I guess the question is what are you playing? Home crew? And AP? Doesn't sound like any of the AP but I can't say I've read them all. Sounds to me like a GM who is deliberately trying to make your life difficult not like a purchased adventure.
A few suggestions for new players/ group:
The game is quite complex at 8th level and trying to learn the game at that point is very tough. It's massive option overload and you don't really understand the basics.
the first thing I would do, is not go anywhere he is trying to lead/lure your party.
Keep dying in his dungeons? Don't even go in. Spend session after session role playing in town, trying to find mundane jobs (like baker and stable boy) and turn things around and frustrate the DM. Tell him you have all decided leaving tow is just too dangerous. See how he likes it.
Going somewhere, unexpected and finding out it is too hard and running away is one thing. But everywhere? that's another.
For the record, I use diehard feat often.
If you are playing Pathfinder, your cleric should be able to blow spells on buffing, channelling should deal with party healing effectively enough. Your bard should also be buffing the party, making saves more effective and boosting your attacks.
What sort of character generation have you used?
What sort of Wealth By Level do you have?
If you are new to the game, start at 1st level, always. It just gets too complex otherwise, there is too much to learn.
Party comp is as follows all 8th currently except for the bard
Dwarf priest of Desna
Human Ranger, archery specialized
Half elf fighter, 2h
Elf wizard, took evocation as opposed
7th level npc bardWe are getting destroyed every other session or so. Is this normal? So far we've seen encounters like a band of ogres and assorted other monsters with a goblin ranger riding a black dragon in a ball of darkness.
Some sort of grappling monster who was also in a ball of darkness, but who had a swallow whole attack in addition to 8ish melee attacks which all hit on anyone it grappled.
A series of monsters encountered in a lair, which was partly composed of members who had blind sense and kept an obscuring mist up while casting some manner of lightning spell through the mist at party members.
This is in addition to many encounters using the time honored tradition of invisible casters using summoning.
These encounters are... tedious. They seem to be crafted to frustrate players and ensure that everyone power games (mix/maxes everything for DPR) next re roll to ensure this situation isn't as frustrating. I haven't played in a D&D campaign for some years but I just don't remember it being this frustrating. Attempts to strategise seem to fall into failure and disarray, the general feeling of the campaign is pretty well hopeless. Players (including me) have adopted the "I really don't care all that much" attitude about their character. Everyone is dropped to under 0HP pretty routinely, but the DM swaps off attacks as soon as someone drops so as not to kill us. I'm not sure if this is mercy, or a lack of it. The poor cleric is only a jogging bandaid, since the amount of damage we take in outstrips his healing (and our hit points) very quickly.
An average encounter seems to ensure at least one character is dropped under 0. We run a lot. I know a portion of the adventure is converted from either 3 or 3.5, but really?
Is this really how it's supposed to roll in campaigns? I mean is this sort of thing pretty...
Wow, seems pretty harsh...
Addressing your points individually:
- party composition: You got pretty much everything covered. I see no reason as to why you should not be able to survive with this setup.
- dying part: Though PF games (as D&D) can be quite lethal, it should not be THIS lethal.
- You run. That is good. So I assume the GM is not trying to teach you that there are some overwhelming monsters you are not yet ready to face and do not get the message.
- Grappling all of you on a successful hit: Sounds a bit fishy. Though monsters get a grab attack and can grapple you on a hit, to actually keep you grappled they are assumed to use all their appendages. Once they only use a single one, their checks get a lot harder. But it's not an easy rule, so that might have been overlooked - or there is no issue in the first place :-)
- blindsense monsters + obscuring mist + lightning: Did you try to dispel the fog? Throw up resistances? Lure them out? Separate them somehow? Summoned aid? Tough scenario though...
- Invisible casters: Let your wizard memorize see invisibility and scribe some scrolls. Summon monsters with scent. Globes of invulnerability. Use swarms. Glitterdust by the bard is golden. Dispel the summoned monsters. Use magic circles and protection from evil - and these summoned minions won't be a problem anymore.
- Buy equipment! A wand of fireballs may well be worth it, your wizard can use it without problems even though he banned evocation.
- Battlefield control spells: Did you try solid fog? black tentacles? Entangle by the ranger? Also spells like grease on someone who was grappled or dimension door...
- Confuse, command etc. the opponents! The more there are, the more will fail!
Those are the first things that come to mind. I would need more information on wealth, feats, spells, equipment etc.
This really seems like a case of the GM just really trying to mess up the party intentionally. Does your GM have power issues? It might help if you and the other players pull him aside and let him know that he is being rather unreasonable.
Beyond that, if your GM is going out of the way to screw you over, there is little you can do about it in-character.
Tell your DM to roll out in the open, and ask to see the encounters after they've been run. It sounds like he is just cheating and has adopted a me vs. the players attitude. He wins by showing his superiority and then being merciful, but really it's a power play by him. A DM rolling in the open is dangerous as he can't fudge the rolls to HELP the party, but if monsters always save vs. everything, then he is probably fudging the rolls anyways against you.
Sounds like he is just stroking himself with these encounters. Call him on it, tell him the current playstyle isn't fun. Have someone else DM or run an Adventure Path if he doesn't alter his style so that it's fun for the whole group.
sounds like that grapple on attacks monster in the darkness giving sickened and nausea out is a Hezrou demon.
Well I am not sure, if the DM is "cheating", I guess there are a couple questions to ask.
Who is the first one in? No one looks like an AC beast, this looks like a major PARTY weakness. I hate the term tank, if you are at a city, ask your dm if you can get a fighter, tower shield type, kick that bard. A high AC fighter with combat expertise, would help tremondously hold creatures off choke corridors.
Not having a high AC character looks like your main weakness, Here is what I see 2 Ranged you and the caster, 2 support the cleric and bard and a skirmisher the fighter, hopefully he wears full plate.
Second when does a DM repeat tactics and do you learn from your encounters. A invisibility summoning caster is defeated easily if you have potions or scrolls.
Combat manuevers are a great tactic for casters and ranged. Even high AC targets.
I think the main thing is not having a high AC companion. Which person is defense built. Who is going to take all the Full Attacks from monsters. If you can't replace the Bard, ask the Cleric if he can take a couple levels of Holy Vindicator. At your level you should have someone in perhaps lower 30's ac unbuffed.
Around level 5 the game starts ramping up, mosters become more intelligent. This is a good thing, if the game didn't get harder more complicated it would be like WoW.
Yeah, we're getting there. This is a case of many of the party members rolling characters for a normal campaign and being taken for a ride on the end of a spear. The cleric probably would have tried for selective channel and not gone dwarf had he known. The buffs do go out, but it's too little too late. In the most recent encounter where we dimension doored back into a dungeon encounter we had previously failed (two guys under 0) I was able to have lead blades, enlarge, haste, bloodhound, longstrider and two forms of energy resist on my ranger. I lived, but not by a ton. The key encounter villain escaped however.
You are basically being hampered by 'beginners mistakes' at high level, by the look of things. Had you started at first level, you would have found out what feats and gear you needed very early on and gone for them as you levelled.
We used 25 point, with max HP. I tallied my items and they came to 30k. It's mostly in misc magic items, I'm still using a +1 composite bow and not much chance of finding another, he's seen that archery works well. I did at one time get my hands on 7 ice arrows, it was the best 7 shots I've had.
Again, if you are the ranger, the biggest expense should be your bow, then ammo, then protective gear. Are you selling gear you find to buy the stuff you need? Or is the DM playing the 'what you find is what you get' card? Magic ammo is remarkably cheap (160gp for a +2 equivelant magic arrow, for example - all archers should stock up on a few bane arrows for different monsters).
I agree here, we started at 4. Next campaign will start at 1, but the whole issue will be moot by that point since we will be using a store bought module.
Good! My own suggestion is, scrap this game and start again at level 1 with an Adventure Path right now, as this existing game is an exercise in frustration. A few hints for the future:
1) make sure you have all your bases covered - characters should have the following concepts covered (often several in one character, I'll add):
Heavy hitter - one of you should be able to deal really decent damage.
Tank - one of you should have high AC and decent hit points.
Healer - one of you should be able to heal the others.
Caster - one of you should be able to cast a wide variety of spells
Buffer - one of you should be able to enhance the others.
Bombardier - one of you should be able to hit the enemy at a distance.
Skills Monkey - one of you should be good at sneaking around, looking for things and generally doing all that stuff that sneaky people do.
Loremaster - one of you should 'know stuff'
Crafter - one of you should be able to make stuff
A couple of example parties - I am running two RL games as DM right now, these are the party combos:
Party 1 - all inexperienced players, I helped design the PCs
Jal - gold dragon bloodline sorcerer, he's the caster and crafter.
Emyla - paladin, using sword & board, she's the tank and sometimes the hitter and healer.
George - fighter, two-handed, he's the hitter and sometimes the tank.
Anson - half-orc rogue, he's the skills monkey and something of a hitter.
Laleth - half-elf bard, she's the loremaster, healer and buffer.
Esyn - elf druid, he's Bombardier, caster and healer.
So even without a cleric, they have sufficient healing between them to get by. With two front-line fighters and a rogue they can deal out a lot of damage. With a bard, sorcerer and druid they have ample spell-power.
Party 2 - more experienced players, if slightly deranged:
Mirard - Ranger, he's Bombardier and sometime skills monkey.
Aerylwyth - Rogue, he's skills monkey and sometimes hitter.
Tim - brass dragon bloodline sorcerer, he's the buffer, hitter and the tank.
Pirath - Cleric, he's the tank, buffer, healer and caster.
You see two very different parties that hinge on different character abilities. With the numbers you have, you can afford to specialise.
2) Pick equipment carefully. Play to your strengths, cover your weaknesses. Don't be afraid to sell 'neat' gear in favour of more useful gear.
3) It's not a game of player vs DM. The DM's job is to challenge you, not prove how awesome he is. The best encounters are the ones where everyone was a hair's breadth from going down ... but didn't! If the players come up with a way of avoiding an encounter, or defusing it, or beating it easily, they DM should let them have the win. Likewise if the PCs do stupid things and take risks, the DM should reward them for their lack of caution ... but he shouldn't nerf their tactics just to make things tougher.
In this case it was intended to land all the melee hits automatically on any player it grappled. It ended up just using the swallow whole action and killed the wizard (really dead).
Er ... that sounds pretty suspect. Was it automatic as in 'no need to roll' or automatic as in 'rolling is a formality, it hits on a 2-20'? If the former, then no, I'm pretty sure that's wrong.
I actually have 14 hours of scent/day with bloodhound and my extend rod (can't believe he let me purchase that rod). It's only a +8ish to find them, but it's good enough. All that is good advice. I'm not sure he'd allow dispel to cancel a summoned monster.
Again, I am fairly certain that by RAW you can dispel a summoned monster.
We have solid fog now, the monsters always seem to make saves to the point that glitterdust and grease were probably 10% effective. I've not seen (or am not able to recall) black tentacles successfully grappling anyone but our own fighter (again, monster saves). I haven't even bothered dropping entagle as the ranger since the 22ish int wizard is pretty much dominated by enemy saves.
Glitterdust to highlight invisible foes does not have a save, and that's your main use of it. If you have decent casting stats those spells should be more effective than that. Entangle is worth it for the difficult terrain it creates - even if they save, they are cut to half speed, and it's a huge area so it can tie foes down for a round or two even if they make their saves.
Frankly, it really does sound like your DM is playing a game of DM vs Players.
One possible explanation for the lethality could be that your DM is used to running campaigns for experienced players with access to all the 3.0/3.5 books. In which case encounters at CR+2 could be equivalent to a regular group's CR+0.
If that is the case, he may simply not yet have figured out how to reduce the lethality to a proper level. Or he figures that you'll learn the tricks eventually and just keeps at the heightened power level. It's also possible that he has developed a case of "DM vs players".
Talking to him is probably a good idea. Tell him you're not having much fun, and that you want to have more survivable encounters.
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I can say the hardest group I have ever ran a game for. Was back when I was in the Army. The group concested of 7 people all in the army. All with random characters. The problem I hade as a DM was they where all in the military and reverted to tatical traning after the first few games and they found out what there characters did. After that it was a stream of monsters 5 to 6 CR above there level or they wold just treat them like a speed bump. To me from the looks of it thats what your realy lacking in the group tatical awarness. That can be tough to teach any one. And some people are natural good at it and well others are not. Tatical awarness is not somthing leard over night. Alot of the deaths in games I run are, becous of a lack of this important skill set.
But it's important to find out as a DM whether players want that kind of tactical challenge.
So, concerning the OP, eventually telling your DM that you don't want to have such a hard time, that you want to have fun and roleplay and have your chars feel like actual heroes might be a wise move.