Would you allow Aasimar as a PC in this AP? And if so, which level adjustment?


Carrion Crown

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Hello everybody,

our group has half newbies and half experienced players. One of the experience players immidiatly said he wants to play a Aasimar Cleric of Saraenre (good / sun) and also immidiatly maxed it out with feats and traits.

I am wondering if I (as an inexperienced DM) should let him use that race and such a maxed out built. Also i heard about level adjustment for this particular race.

What do you guys think?

Thank you
Markus


divby0 wrote:

Hello everybody,

our group has half newbies and half experienced players. One of the experience players immidiatly said he wants to play a Aasimar Cleric of Saraenre (good / sun) and also immidiatly maxed it out with feats and traits.

I am wondering if I (as an inexperienced DM) should let him use that race and such a maxed out built. Also i heard about level adjustment for this particular race.

What do you guys think?

Thank you
Markus

I don't think the race deserves a level adjustment. I say this because I played a teifling, and it did not make a difference. It does not look impressive to me on paper either.

If he is going to break the game stopping him from having the Aasimar won't be a factor.


Hi Markus,
could you be a bit more specific about how this Aasimar is maxed out?
is there something wrong with His choice of Feats & Traits?

this could be a great character for the AP (would want to fight evil - and a lot of bad guys, might be a little harder om him than at the rest of the party).

but, it's hard to say if there's anything wrong, unless we get his stats...

GRU

Sovereign Court

An Aasimar is a tad better than a Tiefling in my opinion, but it won't be a huge problem for him to play one.


GRU wrote:

Hi Markus,

could you be a bit more specific about how this Aasimar is maxed out?
is there something wrong with His choice of Feats & Traits?

this could be a great character for the AP (would want to fight evil - and a lot of bad guys, might be a little harder om him than at the rest of the party).

but, it's hard to say if there's anything wrong, unless we get his stats...

GRU

I am assuming the Aasimar's bonus to charisma and wisdom, but I may be wrong.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I allow Tiefling/Aasimars without any LA. PF core races were buffed across the board, so they pretty much are close to old LA+1 races anyway.


Gorbacz wrote:
I allow Tiefling/Aasimars without any LA.

Likewise. They're good, but not as good as to warrant a higher starting level.


how would an Aasimar be treated in Ustalav? They are not common in Golarion are they?

How would people react to him, should I as the GM make any adjustment if he chooses to take this non-core race?

Markus

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
divby0 wrote:

how would an Aasimar be treated in Ustalav? They are not common in Golarion are they?

How would people react to him, should I as the GM make any adjustment if he chooses to take this non-core race?

Markus

Burnt Offerings, the first adventure of RotRL contains an absolutely masterful description on how ordinary, smalltown folk might react to a being of absolute, pure celestial beauty who lives among them.

James Jacobs, you are a wicked person.


Are there male and female aasimar? (sorry for the question but the bestiary says something about "woman")

Liberty's Edge

Yes. The example aasimar is a female cleric, but aasimars can be male or female, and any class.


Remember that an aasimar is not even a half celestial. They are really not that much more "powerful" than a sorceror with the celestial bloodline, and in fact have the same thing in common, that manifests in a different way (someone in their ancestry mated with a celestial).

So this guy isn't going around "glowing" like Tolkien elves, he just has a different lineage, like the men of neumenor or some such thing. Why would anyone suspect he is anything but human?


Pendagast wrote:
So this guy isn't going around "glowing" like Tolkien elves, he just has a different lineage, like the men of neumenor or some such thing. Why would anyone suspect he is anything but human?

Actually:

SRD wrote:
Typical aasimar features are hair that shines like metal, unusual eye or skin color, or even glowing golden halos.

I toned down some of the more powerful races a bit. In case of aasimars, it was Light instead of Daylight as spell-like ability, if I remember correctly.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Pendagast wrote:

Remember that an aasimar is not even a half celestial. They are really not that much more "powerful" than a sorceror with the celestial bloodline, and in fact have the same thing in common, that manifests in a different way (someone in their ancestry mated with a celestial).

So this guy isn't going around "glowing" like Tolkien elves, he just has a different lineage, like the men of neumenor or some such thing. Why would anyone suspect he is anything but human?

Because all aasimars have at least one feature that marks them as something MORE than human. Most can hide this feature if they want, I suspect, with a Disguise check... but just as tieflings have features like tails or horns, aasimars have features that mark them as not human.

In the case of the aasimar from "Burnt Offerings," she was unnaturally beautiful with strangely colored eyes, but as described in the Bestiary, the feature that marks them as an aasimar can vary. Specifically depending on their lineage. They might have a halo, or feathers for hair, or green skin, or unnatural voices, or whatever. It's really left up to the GM and/or player to come up with a cool trait.


I've got an aasimar in my CC game right now. No level adjustment. No issues.


Samnell wrote:
I've got an aasimar in my CC game right now. No level adjustment. No issues.

what class is he and how tall?


divby0 wrote:
Samnell wrote:
I've got an aasimar in my CC game right now. No level adjustment. No issues.
what class is he and how tall?

They are generally within the human size range. If that was not the indirect query then I apologize for butting in.


James Jacobs wrote:
Pendagast wrote:

Remember that an aasimar is not even a half celestial. They are really not that much more "powerful" than a sorceror with the celestial bloodline, and in fact have the same thing in common, that manifests in a different way (someone in their ancestry mated with a celestial).

So this guy isn't going around "glowing" like Tolkien elves, he just has a different lineage, like the men of neumenor or some such thing. Why would anyone suspect he is anything but human?

Because all aasimars have at least one feature that marks them as something MORE than human. Most can hide this feature if they want, I suspect, with a Disguise check... but just as tieflings have features like tails or horns, aasimars have features that mark them as not human.

In the case of the aasimar from "Burnt Offerings," she was unnaturally beautiful with strangely colored eyes, but as described in the Bestiary, the feature that marks them as an aasimar can vary. Specifically depending on their lineage. They might have a halo, or feathers for hair, or green skin, or unnatural voices, or whatever. It's really left up to the GM and/or player to come up with a cool trait.

Well obviously if you choose halo, that might be difficult to disguise. Weird color eyes would be pretty hard to notice casually. Voice issues only if one speaks. Green Skin? Could be half orc or related to the wicked witch of the west!

With all the weird looking people bouncing around Golarion like they got fashion tips from a cantina in mos isely, I hardly think the aasimar is going to be that noticeable (although the halo guy may take the cake)


divby0 wrote:
Samnell wrote:
I've got an aasimar in my CC game right now. No level adjustment. No issues.
what class is he and how tall?

Cavalier, but he's set to take as many levels of the 15-level version of the hellknight PrC as soon as he's able. He's six foot four and he likes Reckonings, wearing a cilice, and long walks on the beach.


Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I would normally say an aasimar is fine with the normal races ~ but then I read this:

divby0 wrote:
I (as an inexperienced DM)

Which would make me say no. If you are really inexperienced a tweaked out character with an unusual race, it can be a real headache.

One change that I have made for my games that have made both the aasimar and tiefling more balanced is having them considered humanoid for the purposes of spells. [Or as others say having outsider (native) -> humanoid (planetouched) for outsider (native)s with no racial HD]

Sovereign Court

divby0 wrote:

Hello everybody,

our group has half newbies and half experienced players. One of the experience players immidiatly said he wants to play a Aasimar Cleric of Saraenre (good / sun) and also immidiatly maxed it out with feats and traits.

I am wondering if I (as an inexperienced DM) should let him use that race and such a maxed out built. Also i heard about level adjustment for this particular race.

What do you guys think?

Thank you
Markus

If I was GMing for a mixed-experience group and one of the experienced guys made a top-notch cleric I would think: "It's really cool that he's making a character that can support the inexperienced players' characters."

Aasimars are fun and should contribute to the roleplaying, Sarenrae should be an interesting faith to spread in Ustalav and if the player starts to dominate preceedings then you need to talk to him about his play style, not his build.


You are right!

But also he immidatly said he does not want to be the "healer-b&~@!". Which made mie think that he is over excited of blasting skeleteons and haunts away instead of focusing on group support and balanced play!

well we will see and I will of course talk to him!


divby0 wrote:

You are right!

But also he immidatly said he does not want to be the "healer-b+&!&". Which made mie think that he is over excited of blasting skeleteons and haunts away instead of focusing on group support and balanced play!

well we will see and I will of course talk to him!

"Why" should have been the first thing you said, but you don't have to be the heal-bot in order to support the group. I plan on straddling the line between medic and solder the next time I play one.

Will I take spells like restoration, remove curse, and so on? Of course I will. Will I spend the entire fight running around the room trying to make sure you don't die because you insist on not using tactics? Nope.

Sovereign Court

wraithstrike wrote:
divby0 wrote:

You are right!

But also he immidatly said he does not want to be the "healer-b+&!&". Which made mie think that he is over excited of blasting skeleteons and haunts away instead of focusing on group support and balanced play!

well we will see and I will of course talk to him!

"Why" should have been the first thing you said, but you don't have to be the heal-bot in order to support the group. I plan on straddling the line between medic and solder the next time I play one.

Will I take spells like restoration, remove curse, and so on? Of course I will. Will I spend the entire fight running around the room trying to make sure you don't die because you insist on not using tactics? Nope.

Yep, I'm with wraithstrike on this.

I play clerics almost every time I play and I never get dragged into healbot territory because I do two things:
1: Make it clear that I can do much more useful things during the action, healing is for afterwards.
2: Getting the party to pool funds to buy wands of CLWs (and other healing spells).

This doesn't mean I'm not carrying restore spells or willing to drop a channel / convert a spell if needs be, it just means that I'm playing a well-rounded cleric.

Silver Crusade

+1 to GE and Wraithstrike.

Liberty's Edge

I allowed it in my current Carrion Crown Campaign,(player is also playing a Cleric of Sarenrae) but phased the powers of the Aasimar in over time per level, much as a sorceror's bloodline or clerical sub-domain would operate, as follows:

Aasimar PC Race - Carrion Crown

-2 Con, +2 Cha, +2 Wis; +2 Dip + 2 Perc; +2 Performance (singing); Golden Hair and a surreal, unearthly singing voice; entire body can be made to glow with a surreal golden light, shedding light as per the cantrip, 1/day

Re -2 Con: We'll say that your health has always been delicate and that this was one of the reasons/justifications that the church gave for removing you from your family at a young age. The truth is, your body has difficulty digesting almost all earthly food -- or at least a very large number of such foodstuffs - such that you are plagued with health problems, cramps and aches and a somewhat pale palor. Eventually, you can ultimately overcome this at 9th level.

Much of the balance of the Aasimar bloodlines powers, would phase in as your ties to the Celestial strengthen over time. So call those "Celestial bloodline powers" which take effect and phase in like sub-domain powers, as follows:

Sub-Domain (Celestial/Aasimar)

Celestial Sight: At 3rd Level, the Aasimar bloodline grants you the power of Darkvision, 60 feet.
Celestial Resistance: At 5th level, the Aasimar bloodline grants you the following resistances: acid resistance 5,
cold resistance 5, and electricity resistance 5;
Celestial Light: At 7th level, the Aasimar bloodline strengthens your ability to glow with the powers of Angels. Replace the ability to glow shedding light (as per the cantrip) to shedding Daylight, as per the third level spell, with the CL equivalent to your current level.
Celestial Health: At 9th level, the Aasimar bloodline finally acclimatizes to the material plane, and the -2 Con penalty is overcome and permanently removed from having any further in-game effect.


let me do a rough breakdown of the Aasimaar

+2 to 2 mental stats that are only snergistic with a single class without penalty, big deal, especially when these 2 mental stats are a trap together.

+2 diplomacy, the half elf gets this too

+2 perception, just about almost any non human race gets this.

Darkvision 60 feet. yay a long duration 2nd level spell that's always on. instead of blowing resources on darkvision, why doesn't every caster invest in the 'light' spell. close enough. yeah it gives away your position, but it helps you get the XP faster and that also means, less foes guard your precious loot. you may call yourself an adventurer, but you are nothing more than a glorified bandit. even without the torch, in the places where darkvision matters, your position would have been revealed anyway. for most underground foes have this same ability, but with a lot more range. lots of nonhuman races get this.

daylight spell. highly situational. best used against vampires, but how often do you face them?

energy resistances. resist 5 to 3 energy types that don't come into play anywhere near as much as fire. still, at least they are more common than sonic. a 2nd level spell can provide anywhere from double to 6 times the benefits of these resistances, and neither stack with one another.

outsider type. the spell immunities are basically a wash, in theory. but how often do people use charm person, hold person, or anything like that? expect thier higher level counterparts to be used more than they. but you cannot be enlarged/reduced. these spells are theoretically used more by PCs and other adventurers than any other humanoid only spell. so i see it as a disadvantage. but i'll just call it a wash.

other arguable benefits of the outsider type.

proficiency in all simple and martial weapons.

this benefit isn't even that overpowering.

you just get more variety on what weapon you wish to wield. you only ever wield one weapon at a time, 2 at most. in best case scenarios, you get one of those fancy weapons that no cleric god offers, that you want for fluff. especially when the top 3 martial weapons for theoretical DPR are the Falchion, Kukri and Composite longbow. and the better 2 of which, you could have gotten by playing other races. than martial weapon proficiency doesn't really matter. it's just there to reduce the feat tax for variety. and i hate the idea that we have to feat tax the guy who wants to be 'different'. the special snowflake is not something to be discouraged, we should embrace and praise this artistic deviation.

really, even if you give the 0HD outsiders thier martial weapon proficiency back. they will be at best, slightly under the core races. the core races will forever grow stronger with each new tome of support.


Shuriken Nekogami wrote:

let me do a rough breakdown of the Aasimaar

+2 to 2 mental stats that are only snergistic with a single class without penalty, big deal, especially when these 2 mental stats are a trap together.

+2 diplomacy, the half elf gets this too

+2 perception, just about almost any non human race gets this.

Darkvision 60 feet. yay a long duration 2nd level spell that's always on. instead of blowing resources on darkvision, why doesn't every caster invest in the 'light' spell. close enough. yeah it gives away your position, but it helps you get the XP faster and that also means, less foes guard your precious loot. you may call yourself an adventurer, but you are nothing more than a glorified bandit. even without the torch, in the places where darkvision matters, your position would have been revealed anyway. for most underground foes have this same ability, but with a lot more range. lots of nonhuman races get this.

daylight spell. highly situational. best used against vampires, but how often do you face them?

energy resistances. resist 5 to 3 energy types that don't come into play anywhere near as much as fire. still, at least they are more common than sonic. a 2nd level spell can provide anywhere from double to 6 times the benefits of these resistances, and neither stack with one another.

outsider type. the spell immunities are basically a wash, in theory. but how often do people use charm person, hold person, or anything like that? expect thier higher level counterparts to be used more than they. but you cannot be enlarged/reduced. these spells are theoretically used more by PCs and other adventurers than any other humanoid only spell. so i see it as a disadvantage. but i'll just call it a wash.

other arguable benefits of the outsider type.

proficiency in all simple and martial weapons.

this benefit isn't even that overpowering.

you just get more variety on what weapon you wish to wield. you only ever wield one weapon at a time, 2 at most. in best case scenarios, you get one of those...

I generally allow any race without a LA that is at least feasible given the context of the campaign. Given the dark history of Ustalav, it would probably draw Aasimar seeking to redeem the land like moths to a flame.


divby0 wrote:

You are right!

But also he immidatly said he does not want to be the "healer-b++@@". Which made mie think that he is over excited of blasting skeleteons and haunts away instead of focusing on group support and balanced play!

well we will see and I will of course talk to him!

What would be the problem with this? Being really good at "blasting skeletons and haunts" is a great way to support the group (unless the group is made up of skeletons and haunts) and balances out quite well when facing things that are neither skeletons nor haunts.


Shuriken Nekogami wrote:

let me do a rough breakdown of the Aasimaar

+2 to 2 mental stats that are only snergistic with a single class without penalty, big deal, especially when these 2 mental stats are a trap together.

+2 diplomacy, the half elf gets this too

+2 perception, just about almost any non human race gets this.

Darkvision 60 feet. yay a long duration 2nd level spell that's always on. instead of blowing resources on darkvision, why doesn't every caster invest in the 'light' spell. close enough. yeah it gives away your position, but it helps you get the XP faster and that also means, less foes guard your precious loot. you may call yourself an adventurer, but you are nothing more than a glorified bandit. even without the torch, in the places where darkvision matters, your position would have been revealed anyway. for most underground foes have this same ability, but with a lot more range. lots of nonhuman races get this.

daylight spell. highly situational. best used against vampires, but how often do you face them?

energy resistances. resist 5 to 3 energy types that don't come into play anywhere near as much as fire. still, at least they are more common than sonic. a 2nd level spell can provide anywhere from double to 6 times the benefits of these resistances, and neither stack with one another.

outsider type. the spell immunities are basically a wash, in theory. but how often do people use charm person, hold person, or anything like that? expect thier higher level counterparts to be used more than they. but you cannot be enlarged/reduced. these spells are theoretically used more by PCs and other adventurers than any other humanoid only spell. so i see it as a disadvantage. but i'll just call it a wash.

other arguable benefits of the outsider type.

proficiency in all simple and martial weapons.

this benefit isn't even that overpowering.

you just get more variety on what weapon you wish to wield. you only ever wield one weapon at a time, 2 at most. in best case scenarios, you get one of those...

They are not immune to hold person. Even though they are outsiders they don't get all the outsider traits since they don't have racial HD. They should have put humanoid or beside native so this was more clear. Before James came online and explained things I was giving them all types of stuff they were not supposed to have. Well actually I was giving it to teifling, but they are just the other side of the coin.


wraithstrike wrote:
They are not immune to hold person. Even though they are outsiders they don't get all the outsider traits since they don't have racial HD. They should have put humanoid or beside native so this was more clear. Before James came online and explained things I was giving them all types of stuff they were not supposed to have. Well actually I was giving it to teifling, but they are just the other side of the coin.

That's a change in PF compared to 3.5 then. In 3.5, they were listed as having +1 LA as written, but there was an option which stated that if you took away the Outsider (native) type and instead gave them the Humanoid (planetouched) type, they would be +0 LA.

So, the Outsider type must have meant something then. Immunity to humanoid-specific spells is the only thing that could really warrant a +1 LA, when all the listed abilities were the same.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Shuriken Nekogami wrote:

\

proficiency in all simple and martial weapons.

Since aasimar don't have racial hit dice they don't get this.

Ross Byers wrote:
Tieflings don't have racial hit dice, they advance by character class. So they don't actually get the outsider proficiencies.
James Jacobs wrote:
Pathfinder tieflings and aasimars get weapon proficiencies based on their class; they have no racial Hit Dice, and thus don't gain the standard outsider proficiency with all weapons.


Lazaro wrote:
Ross Byers wrote:
Tieflings don't have racial hit dice, they advance by character class. So they don't actually get the outsider proficiencies.
James Jacobs wrote:
Pathfinder tieflings and aasimars get weapon proficiencies based on their class; they have no racial Hit Dice, and thus don't gain the standard outsider proficiency with all weapons.

It's pretty interesting that the 3.5 and PF rules text regarding Outsiders and the (native) type are the same, yet they apparently mean the opposite thing. The 3.5 FAQ states that Aasimar, Tiefling, and Genasi PCs all get the Outsider proficiencies regardless of their class.

I feel that Paizo should actually have changed the rules text if they wanted it to mean something else than what it used to mean. I love Paizo, but things like this makes me love them a little less :/


Are wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
They are not immune to hold person. Even though they are outsiders they don't get all the outsider traits since they don't have racial HD. They should have put humanoid or beside native so this was more clear. Before James came online and explained things I was giving them all types of stuff they were not supposed to have. Well actually I was giving it to teifling, but they are just the other side of the coin.

That's a change in PF compared to 3.5 then. In 3.5, they were listed as having +1 LA as written, but there was an option which stated that if you took away the Outsider (native) type and instead gave them the Humanoid (planetouched) type, they would be +0 LA.

So, the Outsider type must have meant something then. Immunity to humanoid-specific spells is the only thing that could really warrant a +1 LA, when all the listed abilities were the same.

That option never existed in any book I read. I remember the WoTC website breaking classes down so the got the powers across levels. I rememeber the drow on the website as a 0 LA option, if you did not take all the abilities, but I don't remember the aasimar being listed.


Are wrote:
Lazaro wrote:
Ross Byers wrote:
Tieflings don't have racial hit dice, they advance by character class. So they don't actually get the outsider proficiencies.
James Jacobs wrote:
Pathfinder tieflings and aasimars get weapon proficiencies based on their class; they have no racial Hit Dice, and thus don't gain the standard outsider proficiency with all weapons.

It's pretty interesting that the 3.5 and PF rules text regarding Outsiders and the (native) type are the same, yet they apparently mean the opposite thing. The 3.5 FAQ states that Aasimar, Tiefling, and Genasi PCs all get the Outsider proficiencies regardless of their class.

I feel that Paizo should actually have changed the rules text if they wanted it to mean something else than what it used to mean. I love Paizo, but things like this makes me love them a little less :/

Interesting(the 3.5 FAQ part). At least I know I was not wrong when I gave the teifling everything. Well I was, but it was not my fault.


wraithstrike wrote:
That option never existed in any book I read. I remember the WoTC website breaking classes down so the got the powers across levels. I rememeber the drow on the website as a 0 LA option, if you did not take all the abilities, but I don't remember the aasimar being listed.

The option was in Player's Guide to Faerûn, page 190-191.


If a Aasimar has the Celestial sorcerer bloodline, do the resistances stack?


Aasimar are less powerful than tieflings, who are about as powerful as elves.

Why?
+2 to Wis & Cha; these are arguably the two weakest stats in game. Only the cleric class has a mechanical use for both beyond will saves and skills. Compare this to the tiefling's +2 to Dex and Int, arguably two of the strongest stats in the game, and a -2 to Cha, which is indisputably the weakest stat. Elves take a Con hit, which is many times worse.

Resistance 5 to Electric, Cold and Acid. These are the rare elements. Instead of electricity, tieflings have fire, which is the single most common element. This makes his resistances very circumstantial, and likely not have it kick in more than once or twice per level at best. Suffice to say, an aasimar in Kingmaker could go through entire parts without having his resistances kick in.

Daylight: Sunrods do much the same. Only time this is relevant is if the enemy is using darkness spells or susceptible to bright light. The tiefling's darkness spell is selectively defensive and debilitating against most everything without darkvision.

Martial weapon proficiency: Not a big issue, as the race does not inherently excel at combat. Humans, Half-Orcs, Half-Elves and so forth do combat better with +2 to Str. A cleric or sorcerer with a longsword is not so much more dangerous than one with a morningstar.

Darkvision: This one is good, but any non-human race have some way to see with impaired visibility.

All in all, when applied, an aasimar does not stand above a human as any class except cleric, and then ONLY if he focuses on channeling. A combat cleric will prefer an extra feat any day of the week. Same with a support cleric, to get scribe scroll and other useful feats.

Liberty's Edge

I see a lot of people saying "aasimar get almost nothing".
My take is slightly different: they get the equivalent of at least 2 low power magic items for free at first level. And that is not worth a CL it is not "almost nothing".
If you use a point build and want to play any where wisdom or charisma is important (paladin, bard, sorcerer, oracle, druid) you get the 2 point in your primary characteristic and 2 "free" build point downgrading the other without negative effects.

The resistances: acid, cold, electricity 5. Acid is fairly common in mundane traps, cold protect you from cold environments. Not bad. Actually in the Kingmaker campaign it can be very handy, Kamelguru. It is a continental, cold terrain akin to Poland I think.

spoiler:
and as Will O'Wisp are a common wandering monster it electricity resistance will be very convenient

Sure, casting the appropriate spell will trump the resistance. But it will cost a spell, something that is not so abundant at low levels.

So there is a minor but real balance issue.
Maybe a Aasimar of Tiefling should get 1 less trait or start with a negative amount of XP so that that they will stay a bit behind for the first few levels (I mean something like 500 xp or similar, not a large number). With Pathfinder advancement track that kind of difference in XP will lose any meaningful game effect after level 3 or 4 and the starting advantages of the native outsider would have lost most of their effects too.


look at how few DMs actually use traps.

look at how few campaign settings actually change climates at a fast enough rate to prevent adaption.

look at how few DMs actually care about enviromental hazards, it's why you see these custom falling damage rolls and lava becoming instant death with no save.

look at how often those resistances will be neglected. because of how little they are used.

for it to be cold enough to inflict even 1d6 of damage, you have to be adventuring in the south pole. or at least some fantasy equivalent. and i don't beleive sledding with penguins and hunting seals sounds like a really interesting campaign base. and there, the rider effects are far worse than the damage. and resisting the damage does not reduce the rider effects, let alone negate them.

and in pathfinder, a difference of even 1XP can be major, especially since XP is now static and not relative. even 1PC who is merely a single level below the party can drastically alter the challenge of encounters. and even a difference in numbers of 1 PC can make similar drastic changes.


Shuriken Nekogami wrote:

look at how few DMs actually use traps.

Those of us who cut our teeth on Tomb of Horrors are a dying breed. :/


Diego Rossi wrote:

I see a lot of people saying "aasimar get almost nothing".

My take is slightly different: they get the equivalent of at least 2 low power magic items for free at first level. And that is not worth a CL it is not "almost nothing".
If you use a point build and want to play any where wisdom or charisma is important (paladin, bard, sorcerer, oracle, druid) you get the 2 point in your primary characteristic and 2 "free" build point downgrading the other without negative effects.

The resistances: acid, cold, electricity 5. Acid is fairly common in mundane traps, cold protect you from cold environments. Not bad. Actually in the Kingmaker campaign it can be very handy, Kamelguru. It is a continental, cold terrain akin to Poland I think. ** spoiler omitted **
Sure, casting the appropriate spell will trump the resistance. But it will cost a spell, something that is not so abundant at low levels.

So there is a minor but real balance issue.
Maybe a Aasimar of Tiefling should get 1 less trait or start with a negative amount of XP so that that they will stay a bit behind for the first few levels (I mean something like 500 xp or similar, not a large number). With Pathfinder advancement track that kind of difference in XP will lose any meaningful game effect after level 3 or 4 and the starting advantages of the native outsider would have lost most of their effects too.

Honestly, in my experience at least, the power difference between any race without a CLA is marginal over the course of a campaign. I try to err on the side of freedom and give my pc's the maximum amount of latitude to create the character they want to play. That being said, on the other hand, I do not allow any +CLA races at all unless its a one-off type thing. In my experience, allowing +CLA races varied by pc levels tends to open a pandora's box best untouched. I think allowing all normalized races is a fair compromise.

Liberty's Edge

Jon Kines wrote:


Honestly, in my experience at least, the power difference between any race without a CLA is marginal over the course of a campaign. I try to err on the side of freedom and give my pc's the maximum amount of latitude to create the character they want to play. That being said, on the other hand, I do not allow any +CLA races at all unless its a one-off type thing. In my experience, allowing +CLA races varied by pc levels tends to open a pandora's box best untouched. I think allowing all normalized races is a fair compromise.

That why I suggested a small initial XP penalty. -500 XP with the medium advancement speed mean that you get to 2nd level at 2.500 xp instead of 2.000 (noticeable but you have at least 2 extra BP to get your initial characteristics and the resistances). To get to 3rd level it become 5.500 vs 5.000, i.e. 1 CR monster. For the time when you get to level 5 the difference id 15.500 vs 15.000, 1/30 of the XP needed to reach that level, practically meaningless. From that point onward the probabilities that you will be left 1 level behind the other players when XP are given out are almost 0. If that happen giving out the XP immediately after the next encounter will "cure" the problem.

Shuriken Nekogami wrote:
no one use ...

Make it "Shuriken Nekogami don't use". I see several pages on traps, wilderness hazards, arrows with elemental damage and so on.

"look at how few campaign settings actually change climates at a fast enough rate to prevent adaption."
Rally? There is no need to rapid climatic changes. Climb a mountain, winter in the northern regions and so on and you will have problem with cold exposure.

Quote:


An unprotected character in cold weather (below 40° F)must make a Fortitude save each hour (DC 15, +1 per previous check) or take 1d6 points of nonlethal damage. A character who has the Survival skill may receive a bonus on this saving throw and might be able to apply this bonus to other characters as well (see the skill description).

In conditions of severe cold or exposure (below 0° F), an unprotected character must make a Fortitude save once every 10 minutes (DC 15, +1 per previous check), taking 1d6 points of nonlethal damage on each failed save. A character who has the Survival skill may receive a bonus on this saving throw and might be able to apply this bonus to other characters as well. Characters wearing a cold weather outfit only need check once per hour for cold and exposure damage.

"Unprotected" is horribly vague, but in cold weather (below 40° F [4° Celsius]) it will require a cold weather outfit.

"Severe cold or exposure (below 0° F [-18 C°])", is a common condition in high mountains even in mild climate zones or in winter in the north Europe and America. An adequate protection require bulk clothing and a metal armour don't give any protection.

A Aasimar will have almost no problem in those conditions. It is a circumstantial bonus but a good one.

Reduction by 5 point for free from 3 out of 4 of the elemental kinds of damage is meaningless for you?
No one use corrosive, frost or shock weapons in your campaign? my players feel that a shock weapon is generally better than a flaming weapon as there are a lot of critters with fire resistance.

It is not stuff worth a character level, but giving it out for free is to bee too lenient.

Dark Archive

My only thought, having dmed the adventure path is.. (and lets see if im posting a spoiler right.. but just incase.. SPOILER ALERT!)

Spoiler:
The Lopper, one of the Ghosts of Harrowstone has sunlight powerlessness, being a wraith variant. Although this doesnt ruin the dungeon, if you're hoping for extremely challenging fights, being an Aasimar ends this one pretty quick by using the spell "daylight".


I have a player using an Aasimar Cleric in our SD sidetrack adventure.

I had him roll on the Tiefling tables from Council of Thieves and just modified the results to reflect celstial instead of abyssal/diabolical influence.

Because this is an online game, we did some rolling and I allowed him to pick on of the following pairs of abilities:

Here are your options: Pick one of the five pairs.

1:
Your body is unnaturally warm. You gain Resist Cold/5.
Healing Energises you. The first time each day you are healed, you gain +1 to hit and damage for CHA turns

2:
Your eyes are supernaturally protected. You gain +2 Saves vs gaze attacks.
Your magical heritage lets you treats magic you cast (spells/day and DC) as if your main attribute was 2 points higher.

3:
Fighting outsiders is in your blood. You gain +1 to hit and damage when fighting outsiders of the opposing alignment.
You gain +2 Saveing throw vs Mind Effecting Magic

4:

You are healed by both positive and negative energy.
You have +2 saves vs Disease and Poisons

5:
You have celestial attunement to life. For WIS turns/ day, you can be at peace and cannot be flanked.
Once per day, you can convert energy from undead, your touch drains 1d6+1 HP from them and healing yourself the same amount.

All of these are variants we used from the COT book (Bastards of Erebus)

But for an inexperienced DM, I'd say make them stick with the races in the main rulebook. Most experienced players who try to max out a character race are doing so for a reason and it can quickly unbalance part of the game.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I'm not certain why everyone keeps attributing things to daylight that it does not actually do. Despite the name daylight does not actually create 'daylight' for the purposes of destroying Vampires or rendering Wraith's powerless. You need the much more powerful spell sunburst to do that. All daylight does is create an area of 'bright light.' This temporarily blinds and dazzles creatures with Light Blindness such as Drow. Arguably its ability to dispel darkness is more valuable, but rather irrelevant to Aasimars, who have darkvision.

A good argument could be made that daylight, as a third level spell should have some more concrete effects, such as some minor damage to undead or something. In generally its pretty underwhelming, but check out the spell as written. I doesn't do all the things many players think it does.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

This is for people who have said Daylight is good for Vampires or Wraiths or any other undead. Daylight is bright light, but not natural sunlight. It dings creatures with light sensitivity but does nothing special to undead or anything supernaturally opposed to sunlight.

Edit: Ninjaed by 8 seconds. Darn.


Gunner-Recall wrote:

My only thought, having dmed the adventure path is.. (and lets see if im posting a spoiler right.. but just incase.. SPOILER ALERT!)

** spoiler omitted **

reply to spoiler:
The daylight spell does not duplicate sunlight which is what the wraith is weak against. You would need sunburst and/or sunbeam which are very high level spells. Daylight only provides regular light.

Max Mahem wrote:

I'm not certain why everyone keeps attributing things to daylight that it does not actually do. Despite the name daylight does not actually create 'daylight' for the purposes of destroying Vampires or rendering Wraith's powerless. You need the much more powerful spell sunburst to do that. All daylight does is create an area of 'bright light.' This temporarily blinds and dazzles creatures with Light Blindness such as Drow. Arguably its ability to dispel darkness is more valuable, but rather irrelevant to Aasimars, who have darkvision.

A good argument could be made that daylight, as a third level spell should have some more concrete effects, such as some minor damage to undead or something. In generally its pretty underwhelming, but check out the spell as written. I doesn't do all the things many players think it does.

Darn I was ninja'd.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Max Mahem wrote:

blindness]Light Blindness[/url] such as Drow. Arguably its ability to dispel darkness is more valuable, but rather irrelevant to Aasimars, who have darkvision.

Unless the Aasimar has teammates who are elves, gnomes, half-elves, or humans. Then, it's a life-saver.

Just recently, I GM'd an encounter where a small gang of Tieflings almost took apart the party through coordinated use of Darkness.

Last year, the same thing almost happened with an encounter I ran with Dark Creepers.

Darkness is one heck of a low-level party smasher if the casters use it cleverly. In both cases, they'd have thanked their stars for an Aasimar compatriot.

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