I am a huge fan of the Hero System. Been playing it for years. I love it's flexability. Once you are used to it the math really is fairly easy--but-- it's getting used to it first.
The Hero System has a "basic game" that is a stripped down version. The rues are the same, just a little thinned out...
Try it first:
https://www.herogames.com/viewItem.htm?itemID=242420
I don't think you know what generic means.
And I do not think you know who I am. :)
I do not mean that I am someone important who you should know. It is just that around here I am known as a bit of a Hero System pusher. I am a big fan of the system and I completely agree with all of your counter arguments. Still, I think they are legitimate flaws from a D&D perspective.
Hero does quite well with setting and rule books, but Mr. Long firmly believes that "adventures don't sell." (This ignores the truth that adventures do drive the sale of your core products.)I have to admit that I can't think of too many "classic" superhero adventures. I think that D&D adventures are more memorable because you have a large palette of weird and wonderful monsters to choose from, whereas superhero games try to limit the number of supervillains somewhat.
I did like "Bad Medicine For Dr. Drugs", though.
Unless you go for something like the X-men/Heroes/Push approach
Unless you go for something like the X-men/Heroes/Push approachHero does quite well with setting and rule books, but Mr. Long firmly believes that "adventures don't sell." (This ignores the truth that adventures do drive the sale of your core products.)I have to admit that I can't think of too many "classic" superhero adventures. I think that D&D adventures are more memorable because you have a large palette of weird and wonderful monsters to choose from, whereas superhero games try to limit the number of supervillains somewhat.
I did like "Bad Medicine For Dr. Drugs", though.
Though If you d like my opinion(and why not)
albeit loving superhero comics I could never be interested in a superhero rpg for more than a session.Psions...well thats another thing completely
I noticed a post about lack of quality adventures and not recalling any/many fondly.
I have fond memories of Sharper than a Serpent's Tooth, and the Superhero Battlegrounds and Fantasy Battlegrounds. Also, most of the organization sourcebooks included more then just plot seeds, but actual adventure frameworks that only need moderate fleshing out. Watchers of the Dragon i think is my all time favorite of those.
I have to admit that I can't think of too many "classic" superhero adventures. I think that D&D adventures are more memorable because you have a large palette of weird and wonderful monsters to choose from, whereas superhero games try to limit the number of supervillains somewhat.I did like "Bad Medicine For Dr. Drugs", though.
I loved the ME series of Marvel Super Hero adventures (Cosmos Cubed, Ragnarok and Roll, and the Left Hand of Eternity). It was a fun "epic" level set of adventures for characters like Thor and Silver Surfer, and gave you a nice tour of Marvel's high end magical and cosmic powers.
I ran all of these, and had a lot of fun with them, but I don't think I ever did much with any other adventures in any other super system.
I do recall some positive buzz over some of the DC Heroes adventures that came out back in the day.
Champions had a lot of adventures for 1st-3rd ed.(remember 1st-3rd was just the first three books) 4th also had adventures. As far as I know, Hero has not released in book form any adventures for 5th or 6th ed.
Sorry to further drag this off topic, but I'd be remiss in not mentioning that Green Ronin is actually releasing an "adventure path" to go along with Mutants and Masterminds 3rd Edition, in PDF form, and the first adventure is available for free, and the next installment is already out. The first "non free" adventure even has hero lab files for the bad guys in the adventure.
GR also has released a few adventures of Mutants and Masterminds, including Time of Crisis and Time of Vengence, both of which looked pretty good, but neither of which I actually played or ran.
Champions had a lot of adventures for 1st-3rd ed.(remember 1st-3rd was just the first three books) 4th also had adventures. As far as I know, Hero has not released in book form any adventures for 5th or 6th ed.
Blackwyrm Games is a 3pp who does Champions adventures.
memories of a few of the better modules my group liked.
The Coriolis Effect(adventure) was very well received by my group, they loved that one. Atlas Unleashed(Adventure/sourcebook) worked well for them also. Wrath of the Seven Horsemen(Adventure) had a nice superheroes/cthuhlu throwdown in it. And they loved/feared Day of the Destroyer(adventure featuring the world setting's boogeyman/BBEG)
Champions had a lot of adventures for 1st-3rd ed.(remember 1st-3rd was just the first three books) 4th also had adventures. As far as I know, Hero has not released in book form any adventures for 5th or 6th ed.
5th had several adventures in book form. Not tons and tons, but there were some.
I would certainly disagree. After all, I have a vehicle; my vehicles I bought with money; but in Hero, they are bought with development points so cash is worthless in this respect.
Everyday items, gear, and money…This misconception really needs to die. Hero has its flaws, but this simply is not one of them.
Lorm is correct; I could give you a bunch of titles as I have several
for example:
Blood and Mcquark; a goodsized book of adventures and characters
C.L.O.W.N.; a bunch of wacky scenarios and a new villian team
to name a couple off top of my head.
Champions had a lot of adventures for 1st-3rd ed.(remember 1st-3rd was just the first three books) 4th also had adventures. As far as I know, Hero has not released in book form any adventures for 5th or 6th ed.
I like Mutants and Masterminds; played it in pbp a little bit and have the book; is a well thought out system.
Lorm is correct; I could give you a bunch of titles as I have several
for example:
Blood and Mcquark; a goodsized book of adventures and characters
C.L.O.W.N.; a bunch of wacky scenarios and a new villian team
to name a couple off top of my head.
Oh, I liked quite a few of the organization books and villain books (Circle & METE, Blood & Dr. McQuark, Primus and Demon), but I wouldn't count those as modules. Maybe I'm just nitpicking. :-)
I would certainly disagree. After all, I have a vehicle; my vehicles I bought with money; but in Hero, they are bought with development points so cash is worthless in this respect.
Are they "Heroic" Vehicles in the game? Do they have combat values? Are they useful, say, in a fight against the Ever Lovin' Four Armed Green Skinned Grond? Would Crusader be able to pull a lever and have rockets pop out of the back? Would Foxbat have ping-pong ball launchers in the headlights?
Would for instance, these vehicles be the Batmobile? Or The Batplane? The Invisible Jet? Joker's Roadster? The... dare I say... Popemobile?
No?
Then they're not purchased with points. They may have a "Point Cost" for purposes of determining what they can do, but they do not need to be purchased with points unless your GM is being particularly rules-lawyerish and I might go so far as to say purposely jerking the players of the game around to keep them from exerting some form of common-sense purchasing over the game.
I speak from experience on this last part. If you check the "Last Straw" thread, you'll find I played in a prolonged Fantasy HERO game. The GM in that game made us purchase our horses with points. When you're in a 150 point game, that means no transportation other than foot-traffic for a good long while.
Champions had a lot of adventures for 1st-3rd ed.(remember 1st-3rd was just the first three books) 4th also had adventures. As far as I know, Hero has not released in book form any adventures for 5th or 6th ed.
There is "Foxbat for President"
https://www.herogames.com/viewItem.htm?itemID=240867and
Shades of Black
https://www.herogames.com/viewItem.htm?itemID=234618
both in Book and PDF form. But they are both for 5th Ed. Still easy to convert.
I would certainly disagree.
For Heroic campaigns, mundane equipment does not cost Character Points. I do not have my book with me, so I do not remember the exact verbiage concerning Super Heroic campaigns, but I am pretty sure most mundane equipment does not cost Character Points. You do not have to pay points to have silverware. On the other hand, a utility belt of mundane equipment would cost you so that the Gadgeteer does not get stuff for free.
You might want to review your Mutants & Masterminds rule book too, while you are at it. Equipment cost points there too…for the same reason.
Yes they are; you can build a really awesome vehicle and mount any power on it; then just buy appropriate driving skills, Ai's or whatever; is actually a way to get better bang for you buck than characteristics; just build a spaceship and fly around blasting things; is practical; in the rules; but I wouldnt say very heroic; you could even shrink it down to be the size of a pie plate and interact with everyone. The whole point of HERO is if you can dream it up; you can make it. A vehicle does not have to be a car, a bike; or and airplane; it can literally be any vehicle you can imagine.
They have defenses; speed; movement adn anything else you want them to have.
Still dont think so; take a look at the CLOWN car; its pretty much like Speed Buggy.
I would certainly disagree. After all, I have a vehicle; my vehicles I bought with money; but in Hero, they are bought with development points so cash is worthless in this respect.Are they "Heroic" Vehicles in the game? Do they have combat values? Are they useful, say, in a fight against the Ever Lovin' Four Armed Green Skinned Grond? Would Crusader be able to pull a lever and have rockets pop out of the back? Would Foxbat have ping-pong ball launchers in the headlights?
Would for instance, these vehicles be the Batmobile? Or The Batplane? The Invisible Jet? Joker's Roadster? The... dare I say... Popemobile?
No?
Then they're not purchased with points. They may have a "Point Cost" for purposes of determining what they can do, but they do not need to be purchased with points unless your GM is being particularly rules-lawyerish and I might go so far as to say purposely jerking the players of the game around to keep them from exerting some form of common-sense purchasing over the game.
I speak from experience on this last part. If you check the "Last Straw" thread, you'll find I played in a prolonged Fantasy HERO game. The GM in that game made us purchase our horses with points. When you're in a 150 point game, that means no transportation other than foot-traffic for a good long while.
very true; I havent done much with heroic campaigns or Heroes version Ninja's and Superspies; but I think they have different rules for equiptment and limitation on how powerful a weapon is due to Real Life physics or some such
I would certainly disagree.For Heroic campaigns, mundane equipment does not cost Character Points. I do not have my book with me, so I do not remember the exact verbiage concerning Super Heroic campaigns, but I am pretty sure most mundane equipment does not cost Character Points. You do not have to pay points to have silverware. On the other hand, a utility belt of mundane equipment would cost you so that the Gadgeteer does not get stuff for free.
You might want to review your Mutants & Masterminds rule book too, while you are at it. Equipment cost points there too…for the same reason.
I think with any system, whether it is HERO, GURPS, or 4E in comparison with previous versions of D&D, you need to start with a clean slate. The most important thing about any of these systems is having a DM that is willing to run a campaign. Without a DM to champion it (no pun intended) the rest is mute. I was the single force that introduced GURPS 3E when the rest of my group was playing D&D 3E and transitioning into 3.5, and we never looked back for almost 3 years.
I never buy the arguments of one fantasy system is better than the other, unless you have a specific mechanic to discuss.
But based on what I know about GURPS, which is similar to HERO, there is a steeper curve in regards to character development, but once you get past that, the rest is gravy.
However, there is a steep curve for a DM to develop creatures, NPCs, etc. because they follow the same rules. That is what eventually made me go back to D&D. But after playing 4E and pathfinder, I am ready to go back.
To much of one thing, and you eventually loose interest. It is always good to get a different perspective.
To much of one thing, and you eventually loose interest. It is always good to get a different perspective.
Well put.