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The spell description is not very clear at all on this, does it just help against magical impediments, it does specifically call out under water, would is work on normal non- magical rough terrain?
Well, it doesn't allow you to bypass walls, or anything like that, it just lets you move free of restriction. The rules are silent on difficult terrain, because it doesn't help with uneven ground. I rule that it would help against a character moving through brambles, or heavy undergrowth because of how the spell references grappling. However, if the terrain was considered difficult due to the need of climbing, or balancing of any kind, i.e. uneven cave floor, wooden fence being clambered over, then no, freedom of movement would not help in this case.
Well, it doesn't allow you to bypass walls, or anything like that, it just lets you move free of restriction. The rules are silent on difficult terrain, because it doesn't help with uneven ground. I rule that it would help against a character moving through brambles, or heavy undergrowth because of how the spell references grappling. However, if the terrain was considered difficult due to the need of climbing, or balancing of any kind, i.e. uneven cave floor, wooden fence being clambered over, then no, freedom of movement would not help in this case.
I guess that makes a certain sense, though the spell feather step is first level and helps with all non-magical difficult terrain-
For the duration of this spell, the subject ignores the adverse movement effects of difficult terrain, and can even take 5-foot steps in difficult terrain.
If freedom of Movement only does Magical, do I need booth? As a 4th level spell it seems to me Freedom of Movement should do both
it does exactly what the spell description says it does. don't read more not the spell gets silly.
it does exactly what the spell description says it does. don't read more not the spell gets silly.
That's a useless response its not clear in what it says it does, or I would not have posted. The spell says-
"This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web. All combat maneuver checks made to grapple the target automatically fail. The subject automatically succeeds on any combat maneuver checks and Escape Artist checks made to escape a grapple or a pin.
The spell also allows the subject to move and attack normally while underwater, even with slashing weapons such as axes and swords or with bludgeoning weapons such as flails, hammers, and maces, provided that the weapon is wielded in the hand rather than hurled. The freedom of movement spell does not, however, grant water breathing."
What does move and attack normally for the duration of the spell mean? Does it mean the normal movement rate for the character? Or the normal movement rate in the given terrain? It goes on to say "even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement", the word even implies to me that its in addition to normal difficult terrain, but its really not clear, further more it says "The spell also allows the subject to move and attack normally while underwater". Underwater is not magical at all, so from that I would infer that it works on non-magical difficult terrain, but it does not say it does, its nebulous.
When you begin expanding beyond what the text says, which is exactly what you begin doing when you began assuming that it works on nonmagical terrain, then following the same line of thought one begins asking questions like these:
"Is my buoyancy negated? Do I automatically sink to the bottom? Can I cast Freedom of Movement on an enemy in the ocean and drown them?"
"Can I be unaffected by wind? Am I unaffected by lift? Can I cast Freedom of Movement on a flying enemy and have them drop to the ground like a stone?"
"Can I walk through walls? They can't impede my movement, so ..."
"Can I cause my movement not to be affected by gravity? Can I just cast it, then 'push off' in the direction I want to fly?"
"If my movement is not impeded, can I ignore Arcane Spell Failure and Armor Check Penalties, as well as move full speed in full platemail?"
All in all, it is best to look at the movement penalties under Swim, and the combat penalties under Underwater Combat, and ignore both while retaining buoyancy.
And beyond that, not assume any other benefits than the ones it specifically details.
Normal movement over difficult terrain follows the rules for difficult terrain. Magic that impedes movement impedes your movement no matter what type of terrain you're on (although it can get worse on top of already difficult terrain), and so you return to normal movement while under a FoM spell. The only grey areas are tanglefoot bags and spells that create permanent difficult terrain.
"This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web.
What does move and attack normally for the duration of the spell mean?
As a GM I would rule that your 'normal' move is your base speed. So I would rule that a character under the influence of the spell would be able to move at their base speed. Being able to move at your 'normal' base speed does not keep you from incurring penalties on your movement due to rough terrain so NO it wouldn't help with normal rough terrain.
I would also rule that encumbrance and armor would still limit that movement as the spell has nothing to do with that.
When you begin expanding beyond what the text says, which is exactly what you begin doing when you began assuming that it works on nonmagical terrain, then following the same line of thought one begins asking questions like these:
"Is my buoyancy negated? Do I automatically sink to the bottom? Can I cast Freedom of Movement on an enemy in the ocean and drown them?"
"Can I be unaffected by wind? Am I unaffected by lift? Can I cast Freedom of Movement on a flying enemy and have them drop to the ground like a stone?"
"Can I walk through walls? They can't impede my movement, so ..."
"Can I cause my movement not to be affected by gravity? Can I just cast it, then 'push off' in the direction I want to fly?"
"If my movement is not impeded, can I ignore Arcane Spell Failure and Armor Check Penalties, as well as move full speed in full platemail?"All in all, it is best to look at the movement penalties under Swim, and the combat penalties under Underwater Combat, and ignore both while retaining buoyancy.
And beyond that, not assume any other benefits than the ones it specifically details.
Whoa man, he may have read into it, but your sticking in words that aren't there.
Moving normally in water includes buoyancy. Its effects on water travel are spelled out.
It's possible that freedom of movement would cause you to be unaffected by wind, if it IMPEDES movement. Flying is quite the opposite.
Walls and gravity are also not impedances to movement, they affect travel. And people are normally affected by gravity.
Your point about ASF and ACPs is an interesting one though. I'd have to say they aren't impediments, atleast not to movement as defined by the rules, but rather to motion, except the reduced speed of armor.
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The point is, the spell begins with the wording (as previously stated)
"...to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic..."
So the question is, how is that read. "It allows you to move normally even under magical effects." OR "It allows you to move normally, even under the effects of magic."
The first implies it only works on magic effects, the second implies it works on all effects, even magic ones. The comma makes the difference, and the spell does feature the comma, but is still hard to find the correct meaning of.