Under animated constructs in the Bestiary, it says you can make permanent animated constructs using the Craft Construct feat. Unfortunately, to use that feat, you have to know the price of needed materials and the price of the actual body for the golem.
So. I have a Huge Construct (a wagon) that I advanced from the sample Medium Construct in the stat-block for which I need to determine a price. Spending its construction points, I gave it "common metal" construction and two increased movement units. It is a size category larger than an Iron Golem, but has less than half the HD, so I'm kinda at a loss as to where to go with pricing it.
(I argue with a 15'x15' wagon - I used to have a living room that size and the wagons I'm familiar with were much smaller - but for sake of the calculations, we'll go with it.)
12 hours and not a nibble? Dang...
Yeah, I had body-cost "guessed in" at "~400gp." It's that missing info on *how* to apply the Craft Construct feat to an object to create an animated object - explicitly stated as the proper approach in the bestiary entry - that is throwing a wrench in my plans to dominate caravan routes!
Assuming I followed the monster advancement rules right, the wagon ends up with a strength of 30, giving it a *light* encumbrance of 3192# - assuming the animated wagon counts as a quadruped for purposes of determining loads. And it doesn't get tired. Can you see a merchant caravan of half a dozen of these?
Then some joker starts hanging armor off one, cutting firing slits in the sides for crossbowmen...
(I'm trying to systemize this, so if anyone sees the pattern behind the design of golems, please let me know! Otherwise, I'll have to take a different tack and animate object and its Craft Construct sidekick end up being an aberration.)
corrected the feat name
Golems in the Bestiaries have construction costs and requirements in their descriptions.
Yes, that's the problem. The entry for animated object states a caster can make a permanent animated object by using the Craft Construct feat. The Craft Construct feat mechanic requires the caster to have the market and basic body costs of the construct at hand. However, we have no costs listed under the animated object entry. Thus, the problem arises when I try to make a permanent Animated Wagon using the feat as referenced in the entry.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
|
The rules for using Craft Construct to make a permanently animated object got chopped off by accident in the Bestiary, IIRC. They included the rule for that in Pathfinder #43, where they added some new animated object rules (new stuff to spend CP on).
Add the animated object's HD to it's CP, and mutliply that number by 1,000. Add that to the cost of the wagon itself, and that's the cost to craft your construct.
EDIT: You also need a caster level equal to or higher than the animated object's HD.
|
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
|
Another, serious, option could be to just homerule that Permanancy can be cast on an animated object. Peranacy does have a cost component and I honestly don't see why an animated object should require Craft Construct as your are not really crafting anything.
Not actually a house rule.
Animate objects is a valid target for permanency, it's listed on the third chart with a material cost of 15,000 gp.
|
|
Another, serious, option could be to just homerule that Permanancy can be cast on an animated object. Peranacy does have a cost component and I honestly don't see why an animated object should require Craft Construct as your are not really crafting anything.Not actually a house rule.
Animate objects is a valid target for permanency, it's listed on the third chart with a material cost of 15,000 gp.
Sorry, my mistake.
At work and didn't have the complete list handy. Thanks for the heads up :-)
Creative Director
|
Rules for animated object prices built via "Craft Construct" didn't appear in the Bestiary due to space constraints (and because using animate objects, optionally with permanency, is the assumed method of creating these constructs). Those rules WILL appear in "Ultimate Magic," which has more info about building constructs as well.
Y'know - I fixed lunch right after my last post and was intending to look into using permanency as a work-around once I finished eating. And so I refresh the thread before doing so! Lo and behold! Answers appeared! That, and the need to buy a product. Sheesh. ;)
ETA:
Okay, then. Mr. Jacobs ninja'd me. So - given I was going to buy AP#43 specifically for the animated objects addenda - should I wait for UM to arrive, instead? Will UM reprint the material contained in AP#43?
|
Creative Director
|
Y'know - I fixed lunch right after my last post and was intending to look into using permanency as a work-around once I finished eating. And so I refresh the thread before doing so! Lo and behold! Answers appeared! That, and the need to buy a product. Sheesh. ;)
ETA:
Okay, then. Mr. Jacobs ninja'd me. So - given I was going to buy AP#43 specifically for the animated objects addenda - should I wait for UM to arrive, instead? Will UM reprint the material contained in AP#43?
The information about animated objects in Pathfinder #43 is not duplicated in Ultimate Magic. Nor is the vice-versa the case.
|
Creative Director
|
Rules for animated object prices built via "Craft Construct" didn't appear in the Bestiary due to space constraints (and because using animate objects, optionally with permanency, is the assumed method of creating these constructs). Those rules WILL appear in "Ultimate Magic," which has more info about building constructs as well.Will there be extra constructs to make, and will there be any construct templates (like clockwork)?
We'll just have to wait and see! :-)
In the meantime I found something that could serve as a handy rule of thumb for determining the value of anything with a CR.
I noticed that the numbers given for the constructs that are priced out very generally jibe with the numbers given in the player character wealth by level chart. True one's an apple one's an orange (one is the price for a creature of a given CR that can be a posession, and the other is appropriate value of a PCs' gear for a given level), but above the lower levels the price progression of both more or less match. Difference is while all the priced out constructs just give you an example gp/CR value here and there and imply a progression of value from low CR to high, the chart goes from low to high with no gaps. So to the degree the two progressions parallel each other, you should be able to use the one to fill in the blanks on the gaps of the other.
It doesn't work well for the very low CRs (for example an CR2 Iron cobra cost 4k, and a CR1 homonculous costs 1k, which is very different than a PC's gear vlaue for 2nd and 1st level), but a CR7 flesh golem costs 20k which is about the gear value of a 7th level PC, and a CR13 iron golem is 150K which is about the gear value of a 13th level PC. However, considering the impact of owning a construct as opposed to some other sorts of low CR creatures at low level, the wealth by level numbers could maybe still be reasonable as prices for more ordinary creatures bought as guard animals (or even humanoid slaves).
So, if you want to have SOME kind of guide for how much a creature is worth based on it's CR, rather than pulling a number out of thin air, a value equal to the gear value of a PC of the same level as the creature's CR could be a good place to start.
The information about animated objects in Pathfinder #43 is not duplicated in Ultimate Magic. Nor is the vice-versa the case.
Thus giving me another excellent reason to buy #43 later this evening. (the first (of many) being it just *sounds* like a great adventure!) Thank you, sir!
So, if you want to have SOME kind of guide for how much a creature is worth based on it's CR, rather than pulling a number out of thin air, a value equal to the gear value of a PC of the same level as the creature's CR could be a good place to start.
And *you* just made my life amazingly simpler! This just opens up all *kinds* of toys with which to play!
Have you ever looked at a golem of a given cr to see how closely it compares to a PC of the same level? That could be an interesting exercise, now...
The rules for using Craft Construct to make a permanently animated object got chopped off by accident in the Bestiary, IIRC. They included the rule for that in Pathfinder #43, where they added some new animated object rules (new stuff to spend CP on).
It has been made mine. There shall be Good TimesTM ahead for all!
I've asked this question myself to no avail. I'm happy to see it finally answered! :D
I like what was done with the animated objects in AP#43. I have so far glanced through the rest of the bestiary section and so far like what I have seen. In fact, the *first* entry is one I want to use in a really foul, twisted, long-remembered way (much like my phalanx-fighting kobolds). Whoever dreamed those up is in serious need of regular visits to a shrink - hopefully, s/he never gets them, because who knows what ELSE might be developed for us evil, mean, rotten, and nasty DMs???
Oh, my, yes...
Mr. Jacobs, :thumbsup: Everyone else here, :thumbsup: This place rocks.