Haven't had a chance to do more than look at the first couple pages, but thank you for your work getting this up! I'll make sure to read through and let you know what I think later.
Ok, whew - I was afraid we were all starting out a Commoners!!!
Yea we went back and forth on the table, but thought it was already a lot to print. IDK. Maybe we should post the table rate on the website.
Thank you all for the comments!!!
Where's Cherokee on the languages list? In fact, I don;t see any of the "five civilized tribes" listed. Harumph! ;) (dangers of trying to stat up the real world)
You are right, sorry we didn't get everything, but there is a space in Hero Labs to put in any language, (just in case we over looked something). I hope that helps.
Okay, I skimmed the book, and there are two things I want to mention...
1) What is a Medium saving throw progression? I'm sure I could figure it out myself (eventually) but I didn't see it listed anywhere in the book.
2) How many backgrounds can you have? It doesn't say that I can see.
But otherwise, I'm very impressed at your work. ^_^
Yep looks like we also over looked the number of background, (it's in Hero Labs data set). You are allowed to have 1 background.
We need to post the progressions on the website. We didn't add them for room on the pdf.
I'd say it looks like a solid effort so far. :thumbsup: to your editor(s); from what I have seen, this product is very well edited. (I have issues with some publishers and their, shall we say, "loose" editing of product. It makes my teeth ache.) I have a great number of questions related to layout and overall design choices made (some of the design questions can be found here),but the sheer number of them would look like I were being hypercritical/nit-picky were I to post them all in an open forum. Honestly, most of them are really just me trying to understand why designers/developers took a given path - either because "that's not how I'd'a done it" or the chosen approach isn't one I would have thought to take. You know, no offence intended, not trying to argue a point or grind an axe - I'm just genuinely curious as to the "whys."
The character-creation system has piqued my interest. A couple of us are going to sit down and play with them to see how easily they work for us.
(One thing I wishwishwish for is a border-free file. The graded blue on every page is gonna kill my toner cartridge. A layered pdf with the border as a selectable option would be lovely. That said, I can copy text over to my word-processor of choice and print it out.)
We can put up a "printer friendly" pdf Sunday.
The format is because we do not do this professionally and don’t really have training in this field.
Believe me, I understand that completely! If/when I were to turn any of my ideas into products, I would be looking for a good layout artist at the same time I started looking for an editor.
Look forward to seeing a printer-friendly version!
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OK, the system looks interesting. There are a few things that I felt seemed out of place or unneeded, but nothing major. The only thing that I really felt that I didn't like was layout and editing.
I really do not like the layout of the page and how there is no clear distinction between different sections and such. It took me forever to tell when I was changing archetypes and such at a quick glance and the same with a lot of the early stuff.
Now editing is really a big thing for me. When you create a product, be consistent in your language. Reading this I felt like the product was written by many different people and then just put together with no one actually taking the time to ask how the others were doing it. Examples include the craft skills, some have it listed like this:
CRAFT: ELECTRONIC: (INT, TRAINED ONLY)
While others have it listed like:
Craft: Explosives (INT, TRAINED ONLY)
And again others have it listed like this:
Craft (Mechanical) (INT) Trained Only
Why don't they all look the same?
Another thing is font and font size. Really you guys should have taken the time to put it together consistently. All of this really made it difficult for me to read, but once I did get through it I do feel that it is a system that can work and has potential. And don't get me wrong, I do like the rules you have and I do like that you have taken the time to do the rules for me, but that would have all been wasted if I had really given up trying to read the text when I kept getting lost and there was almost no consistent editing.
We do agree on separation of sections and font size, but we ended up with a 200+ page pdf and that is very expensive to send to a printer. We ended up cutting a lot of material and making the most use of page space as we could. Again, hoping to keep the cost down if someone wanted to send this off to a printer where the number of pages is a cost. We want to make this a least as expensive as we could for everyone.
Editing, I know, there always seems to be something we missed, kind of like software there is always a bug somewhere that you over looked.
Thank you again to everyone for their input! It’s great and we do hope everyone enjoys the material and can use it in their game.
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Yeah, I don't mean to be so harsh it is just a thing I have noticed that has become so much more apparent these days. Grammar, spelling, and consistent writing has taken a back seat to quick typing, acronyms, and low to no grammar and punctuation. I guess it has just gotten to the point were I feel that if a person can't take the time to correctly type something then I shouldn't take the time to read it.
But I really wanted modern rules and I felt they were a interesting and well done set of rules. I will try them out at some point and let you guys know how they play. Till then, good luck.
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Also I just noticed that you guys don't have a character sheet. That may be something to consider since you do utilize a few new skills, different system for armor class, reputation, wealth, etc.
If you guys are not considering it I may be able to create something and give it to you guys to use. I can't promise anything but I am willing and able, and will need one anyways if I plan on using the system.
Sg, ya gotta admit their *spelling* editing is a heckuva lot better than some products we've had to *pay* for!
Yeah, a char-sheet would be good to have...
Sg, ya gotta admit their *spelling* editing is a heckuva lot better than some products we've had to *pay* for!
Yeah, a char-sheet would be good to have...
+1 to both here.
Char Sheet and printer friendly will go up tonight!
:thumbsup:
Excellent! Can hardly wait - I think a few of us will be up *laaaaate* tonight. I mentioned the system to a couple of my gaming group (who moved off - they live 2+ hrs away) so I'll get the url sent their way since they espoused interest.
great job, cant wiat for a magical hero supplement :)
Oh the comment wasn't about this material, these guy's spelling is fine. It was more of a general comment on people in general, especially the new generation. Language has been spiraling downward into a mass of slang and acronyms.
Your context wasn't misunderstood. We got what you meant. ;)
When I went to http://www.gameroomcreations.com/pdf/Modern_Hero_Core_Rules.pdf it is not cooperating. I am using firefox 4. Do I need to use a specific browser?
IDK, we had problems with IE9, firefox seems to work ok, but clear your history and see if it works.
When I went to http://www.gameroomcreations.com/pdf/Modern_Hero_Core_Rules.pdf it is not cooperating. I am using firefox 4. Do I need to use a specific browser?
I got it to work in I.E.
With that out of the way:
Anything I bolded is asking for rules clarification.
First I applaud the effort and time you have saved me. I will be listing things I do and don't like for any GM's who are considering using the rules as written. This is just me skimming so I may miss some things.
I don't like backup plan. Rerolling should be limited to a number of times per day and to higher level characters.
Aware and similar skills should increase to +4 just like the pathfinder skills do IMO. Even little things like this keep crossing over easier.
I really like bonus class skill, but I would allow it to add 2 skills. I may be getting greedy though.
Cool Under Pressure is nice.
Defensive Roll seems really strong too, but at this point I have not gotten to the game's healing mechanic so it may be needed.
I don't like Discern Lie. As written it seems like an auto-succeed.
Extra Feat-Are you saying I have to take a feat in order to take a feat. Do I have to take this feat once, or do I have I do take it once per feat?
I like the Faith feat. It does take away the action point which I will assume allow you to roll 1d6. At this point I have not read the action point rules yet so ignore this if I am incorrect.
For the favor feat I would not have a 30 cap on it. It should be entirely up to the GM, and before anyone says it is up to the GM, I am sure you know what I mean. I am not here to argue semantics.
I like fast stealth. It allows me to continue my ninja infatuation.
I think Heroic Surge should have prereq's
Hindering Attack seems to abusable. It should be limited to a round or at the most a certain number of rounds. As written I would have all the entire party stack this against a boss guy. Since the penalty is uptyped it should work that way as written.
Why is BAB a prereq for Jack of all Trades? Wouldn't character level be a better prereq?
Opportunist is really nice. I don't know if it is too easy to get though.
I am stopping on page 14 so that leaves 107 more pages.
PS:I am not saying I expect you(the designers) to go back and change anything. This is mostly for other GM's to look at.
When I went to http://www.gameroomcreations.com/pdf/Modern_Hero_Core_Rules.pdf it is not cooperating. I am using firefox 4. Do I need to use a specific browser?Extra Feat-Are you saying I have to take a feat in order to take a feat. Do I have to take this feat once, or do I have I do take it once per feat?
i think extra feat is something you can buy with a talent or a training but not sure... thats the way i read it i dont got hero lab though.
i think extra feat is something you can buy with a talent or a training but not sure... thats the way i read it i dont got hero lab though.When I went to http://www.gameroomcreations.com/pdf/Modern_Hero_Core_Rules.pdf it is not cooperating. I am using firefox 4. Do I need to use a specific browser?Extra Feat-Are you saying I have to take a feat in order to take a feat. Do I have to take this feat once, or do I have I do take it once per feat?
I thought about also, but in that case they could have just said you can take feat in place of a talent. I am sure he will be in here later to clear it up.
Well we do understand everyone has their own tweaks to every system. I’m sure not everything is to everyone’s liking, and there is some tweaking we can also do to the rules also.
Sneaky Sneaky is correct: A Talent and/or Training can buy an extra feat. We did write the rules along with writing the Hero Lab dataset, so a few things in the pdf may not have translated well.
Discern Lie is an auto-success.
Character sheet and printer friendly up!
Character sheet and printer friendly up!
I don't see a link to a character sheet on the download page or the main page.
How is a character with low BAB supposed to be able to hit monsters? I am assuming DM's are supposed to be able to bring pathfinder monsters over. I have not created a character yet so I guess I am asking has the math been verfied.
Clear out your history in the browser, that should do the trick.
The class is customizable and you can increase your base attack with Talents and also with various Archetypes. It is the same attack rate as many other Pathfinder classes, it just begins on the low end so you can build up the character as you see fit. If a GM want to let the players take more Talents and/or Training abilities, that is also cool. Feel free to use the rules as you wish.
Clear out your history in the browser, that should do the trick.
The class is customizable and you can increase your base attack with Talents and also with various Archetypes. It is the same attack rate as many other Pathfinder classes, it just begins on the low end so you can build up the character as you see fit. If a GM want to let the players take more Talents and/or Training abilities, that is also cool. Feel free to use the rules as you wish.
I will clear the history. Thanks for responding so quickly.
Got 'em downloaded, Kevin - many thanks! Let me reiterate how much I appreciate you guys' efforts at keeping the spelling errors down.
is there a way of getting it in another format the current one i cannot seem to download and get to come up with inteligible words
is there a way of getting it in another format the current one i cannot seem to download and get to come up with inteligible words
You need a pdf reader. When it comes up in Internet Explorer save it, and it should save to your PC as a pdf file that works as opposed to a web file. If that is not working for you I can upload it to google docs along with the character sheet and post a link assuming the OP does not mind. I think a direct download is easier than getting it from the website.
What is attack bonus: Fast, and does if it is the same as the the best BAB in Pathfinder. If so does it override the BAB of the modern hero?
The attack bonus just give you a +1 to you attack. Your Archetype will give your attack, hit dice and save rates. The rates are the same as the Pathfinder Role Playing Game rates. I will see if I can find a link on the prd of the rates and post them.
We are looking a posting the rules on RPGNow and others, Google docs is a great idea.
I think on of our editors wants to go through the rules one more time, and fix a few things.
The attack bonus just give you a +1 to you attack. Your Archetype will give your attack, hit dice and save rates. The rates are the same as the Pathfinder Role Playing Game rates. I will see if I can find a link on the prd of the rates and post them.
We are looking a posting the rules on RPGNow and others, Google docs is a great idea.
I think on of our editors wants to go through the rules one more time, and fix a few things.
Sorry I was not clear. When I asked about the attack bonus I was talking about from the Archetypes.
As an example
DAREDEVIL
Skill Points per Level: 5
Hit Dice per Level: 8
Attack Bonus: Medium
Fortitude Save: Medium
Reflex Save: Fast
Edit: The issue is that the Modern Hero class uses the term BAB, while the archeypes use attack bonus which are two different terms in Pathfinder.
From what I understand of your explanation the attack bonus replaces the BAB, but I did not see that stated in your guide.
Yep, add that to the edit list.
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Having had a chance to look through this, let me first say, "Good Job" and "Thanks!"
This will be a GREAT resource from which to start my PostApocalyptic game..
I would second the suggestion for a Google Docs upload.
You seem to be up on the slight errors here and there (mostly with formatting and style), and the "repeat" text of the feats seems more geared towards Hero Lab than a book, and those are the only issues that struck me on my first read-through.
I can't wait to see the system in action.
"Since Adamant seems to never want to actually release their Warlords of the Apocalypse, that is"
lol, the same reason we did Modern Heroes, there was alot of buzz about doing a Modern setting, but nobody seemed to be able to get it off the ground and I don't know why. We wish you good luck with the PostApocalyptic game, sounds cool.
On google docs:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&src id=0Bx9kZp-Xn3sFNzFhZjIyYzctOTUzYi00NmJmLWI4NDMtMjVhNTU5ZGQyMDlm&hl=en
Funding, most likely. Some freelancers do this as their primary source of income and it would be harder for them to allocate their time when they have to focus more on the revenue stream that pays their bills. And when you're dealing with some people's money up-front, there's a certain expectation of quality and/or time of delivery of the product.
I reckon you were quite aware of that and only decided to make your announcement when you were close to completion. And if anyone had any issues, it was easy to reply that one can agree to disagree, but at least you're sharing the fruits of your labor for free. If someone wants to use it and publish, at least give credit where credit is due.
If anything, this will also give you the necessary solicited feedback you might be looking for to polish your product further if you have any intentions of going to the next stage and provide content to purchase. Especially since you're a newly formed 3PP entity without any prior track record. :)
On google docs:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&src id=0Bx9kZp-Xn3sFNzFhZjIyYzctOTUzYi00NmJmLWI4NDMtMjVhNTU5ZGQyMDlm&hl=en
Bad link.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&src id=0Bx9kZp-Xn3sFNzFhZjIyYzctOTUzYi00NmJmLWI4NDMtMjVhNTU5ZGQyMDlm&hl=en
Maybe that link will work better, IDK.
I do think funding is the main issue and “time is money”. We are happy to provide this product for free and it is our way of “sticking our toe in the water” and if works great, if not, that’s cool too.
After starting to write the rule system, we realized it wasn’t as easy as we first thought. A lot of time is involved and it can get frustrating very quickly.
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https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&src id=0Bx9kZp-Xn3sFNzFhZjIyYzctOTUzYi00NmJmLWI4NDMtMjVhNTU5ZGQyMDlm&hl=en
Maybe that link will work better, IDK.
I do think funding is the main issue and “time is money”. We are happy to provide this product for free and it is our way of “sticking our toe in the water” and if works great, if not, that’s cool too.After starting to write the rule system, we realized it wasn’t as easy as we first thought. A lot of time is involved and it can get frustrating very quickly.
both links get me Error 400; Bad Request.
Using Chrome 10.0.648.204 if that helps out.
I would suggest checking the privacy settings on the Google Docs document. If not "Public" try that, I have had some issues with "Anyone with the link" setting before.
Looks like we are going to post on RPGNow and DriveTruRPG, but before we do, I think we will edit it one more time for formating and balance.
I'll let yall know when it's up!
Thanks.
No, we want to keep the core rules free and no adds. Thank you though, that is cool, but it just seems the right thing to do.
BTW - We have a Facebook page now, not much there, but it's there!