Hello all. I apologize if this post seems rushed and/or amateurish. I lurk in the forums quite a bit, but I rarely, if ever, post. Also, if this thread is in the wrong forum, I apologize.
Anyway, I was looking for some advice, pointers, and/or criticism about an idea I've been brewing for some time now. While lurking in the forums, I've noticed several very interesting debates regarding the Positive and Negative Energy Planes and alignment, namely, does the N.E.P. necessarily equal Evil and vice versa. I have noticed that some fiends tend to dip into the domain of negative energy, especially when it comes to Orcus [note: I am not above blatantly ripping off 4E lore or adventures if I/my players like them]. That led me to the question: are there any fiends that have such a link to the Positive Energy Plane?
For my next adventure (I'm the GM), I plan on running an alternate version of the 4E adventure "Keep on the Shadowfell." I'll basically be writing it from scratch, but I want to keep the concept of stopping a mad demonic (?) cult from opening up a portal to the Abyss (?) before it's too late. However, instead of a cliche' cult dedicated to Orcus, I want something that's a bit more...devious. I imagine a cult that, based on appearances, looks very similar to a typical good-aligned temple but, when the players delve into their beliefs and actions enough, they'll realize just how twisted and insane they truly are. This brings to the concept of the Malshapers and Ragnorra from the "Elder Evils" supplement (which is fantastic, imo). Ragnorra, to me, honestly loves all of creation and earnestly wants to bring the "flock" back to her fold (by corrupting them via the corrupted positive energy).
My question is, should I stick with Ragnorra and the Malshapers and, instead of opening a portal to the Abyss (as in the KotsF), they'd be opening a portal to where-ever Ragonna happens to be at the time? Or, should I substitute a positive energy wielding fiend of some sort instead? Or...should I just scrap the idea and run the adventure as written (well, converted to Pathfinder)?
Either way, if you know of any positive energy themed fiends, can you please point me in the right direction. I'd appreciate it. Any other ideas, advice, and the like is also very much appreciated.
Thanks!
One last thing and the second reason this whole concept came into being: I really love this mechanic:
"Despite the plane's life giving effects, living creatures entering the positive energy plane quickly become overloaded with life energy and may explode" (note: sorry, I can't find the official mechanic for the fluff at the moment)
This, to me, screams to be used by some extremely sadistic entity. I know that the healing energy is converted to temporary HP and most normal healing doesn't exceed a character's total HP...but, I have no problem house-ruling that away if my players are cool with it (they tend to enjoy most of my ideas). So, I'm at an impasse: have a sadistic fiend that uses positive energy to overcharge them to the point of annihilating them, or use positive energy to corrupt them into gibbering aberrations? Unless, of course, there is some way of merging the ideas without messing up the fluff too badly.
Sorry for the rant! Thanks again for the help!
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Almost all 'fiends' are living creatures, and thus infused with positive energy, and, by default, being healed by positive energy and damaged by negative energy (barring clerics who have learned Alignment Channel).
Still, the association between negative energy and evil is a powerful one, and the rules argue both sides of the controversy, claiming that negative energy is neutral, and then saying that good clerics can never channel negative energy and that various negative energy spells are [Evil] even in the case of spells like Deathwatch, which are primarily useful to *save lives.*
Since life includes such fun things as cancer, botflies and ebola, I'd see nothing wrong with a demon or, especially, qlippoth, that infused a corruptive charge of positive energy into those in it's clutches, causing them to shudder and transform, gaining freakish new bodily modifications. Slapping someone with a tentacle, infusing them with positive energy, a force of life and growth and change, and causing their body to sprout a similar tentacle *that then attacks them!* could be fun, in an Army of Darkness sort of way.
Other attacks could cause something to sprout an extra eyeball that the demon can see through, allowing it to spy on them until they cowboy up and burn the sucker out with a hot poker, or create a tiny mouth in their hairline near their ear that whispers foul promises to them or keeps them awake until sewn shut or removed via powerful healing magic. Those who willingly serve such a power might have such modifications, and 'witch hunts' to find the demon's cultists might involve stripping people and searching for these extra eyes or hidden mouths. A powerful curse from the cult might be to force someone to sprout a limb or tentacle or monster part that is under the control of the cult, not the recipient, while their powerful allies and warriors might have some extra beastly features, such as a crab-like coating of skin on their outer arms, chest, and back, giving them a little bit of natural armor, or some other positive-energy-infused growth.
[tangent] Alignment Channel itself is oddly designed, as once you choose it, you choose an alignment and can then choose when you channel whether to heal or harm outsiders of that type with it. An evil cleric could choose 'good outsiders' and choose to *heal angels* when he channels *negative energy,* and a good cleric could choose 'good outsiders' and likewise choose to use *positive energy* to *kill an angel.*
Granted, one has to contrive reasons why such a character would do this (a negative energy channeling Hellknight cleric of Asmodeus might find it useful to be able to heal a lawful good outsider who is a planar ally to one of his non-evil squadmates and is fighting the demons of the Worldwound, for instance), but it is a bit odd that the right feat can allow you to heal the living with evil life-hating negative energy and harm the living with holy life-affirming positive energy. [/tangent]
Set sums it all up nicely, but for my two cents, sounds like a fantastically devious idea - go for it!
Thank you for the support! It means a lot knowing my idea isn't half bad :P
This sounds like a really good idea, but I think you might have to make up some positive energy fiends.
That's what I figured. I just found out that one of my players is wanting to GM this next session, so creating some new monsters isn't as urgent as I had assumed. Whenever I get around to creating some, I will post them here. If you don't mind, can you fine folks take a look at them when I'm done? I've only created one unique monster before, and that was an incredibly simple one. I'd love for some criticism when I get around to making the new ones.
Maybe use the whole "fallen angel" thing, somehow a planetar was corrupted, and now uses its connection to the positive energy plane to overwhelm a person with positive energy. I like to think of it this way: When a cleric channels positive energy, it's like a gentle massage, it leaves you feeling better afterward. When this corrupted Planetary channels energy, it's like being elbow dropped by a gorilla. It's still pressure on your back, the second, however is not so relaxing.
That's a very interesting idea, and I had debated using a similar idea, but I'm steering more toward using a fiend or aberration. Specifically, I think I'm going to make them qlipphoth. In my homebrew setting, the qlipphoth are basically a race of Lovecraftian aberrations that began to dwell in the Abyss and, over time, the fell energies there changed them into their current forms. There are probably holes in that lore, but my players won't know :P
Since life includes such fun things as cancer, botflies and ebola, I'd see nothing wrong with a demon or, especially, qlippoth, that infused a corruptive charge of positive energy into those in it's clutches, causing them to shudder and transform, gaining freakish new bodily modifications. Slapping someone with a tentacle, infusing them with positive energy, a force of life and growth and change, and causing their body to sprout a similar tentacle *that then attacks them!* could be fun, in an Army of Darkness sort of way.
Other attacks could cause something to sprout an extra eyeball that the demon can see through, allowing it to spy on them until they cowboy up and burn the sucker out with a hot poker, or create a tiny mouth in their hairline near their ear that whispers foul promises to them or keeps them awake until sewn shut or removed via powerful healing magic. Those who willingly serve such a power might have such modifications, and 'witch hunts' to find the demon's cultists might involve stripping people and searching for these extra eyes or hidden mouths. A powerful curse from the cult might be to force someone to sprout a limb or tentacle or monster part that is under the control of the cult, not the recipient, while their powerful allies and warriors might have some extra beastly features, such as a crab-like coating of skin on their outer arms, chest, and back, giving them a little bit of natural armor, or some other positive-energy-infused growth.
I'm definitely going to use those ideas, if you don't mind. They're awesome!
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I've had a fascination with the idea of an evil fire oracle that channels the power of some sort of malignant, semi-intelligent sun set in the Dark Tapestry somewhere, "unholy light of the dark sun" or some such noise. Very Lovecraftian. Basically, I'm in the same boat.
A couple things I've found inspiring while mulling over the idea were the Shining Child (Bestiary 2, uses positive energy offensively to burn opponents, was originally in the Fortress of the Stone Giants bestiary as the Shining Child of Thassilon) and this piece by Keith Thompson: Apollonian Wight.
I get the feeling there's an H.P. Lovecraft story with similar themes, but I haven't had time to look for it. As for actual mechanics though... Aside from the Shining Child, I got nothin :/ I'll keep an eye on the thread in hopes that someone else comes along with some crunch.
Well, they aren't fiends, per se, but they're still pretty nasty. Check out the lurkers in light (CR 5 extraplanar fey) from Pathfinder Bestiary II. Little buggers are even fond of sacrificing people to bring allies into these realms.
If you wanted to reskin the origins of some monsters, the shining child (from Bestiary II), hellcat, and will-o-wisp could make good candidates, although I don't think they have any link in canon.
If you want to go back to 3.X, there was a few oddball monsters that, while not exactly evil, had agendas that could wreak havoc on the mortal plane. The Ravid (a N outsider) was kinda like your take on Ragnorra, so alien that it didn't understand the mortal world, and it just wanted to spread positive energy througout the world. The problem was was that its positive energy animated objects willy nilly. The other one the CN glimmerskin that bond with mortal hosts to give them "a heroic spirit" and encourage them to fight simply for the joy of mindless combat. The former was in the 3.5 MMI (and made it into the SRD) while the latter was in the 3.0 MM2. The Glimmerskin also had the "overload you with positive energy touch" thing going.
Other positive energy outsiders you might want to look at are the jyoti (from Pathfinder Bestiary II) and the lumi (from a 3.5 book the name of which I can't recall- maybe Fiend Folio?). Although, again, they're both neutral aligned, they have personalities with potential dark aspects. The former is paranoid and god-hating while the latter is highly militaristic and expansionistic.