so i know that vital strike takes a standard action (RAI, not RAW) to use, and you cannot use it on a full attack action. But could you use the vital strike if you were hasted, or had "speed" on armour or weapon, using vital strike on the last attack?
i know the answer to this, but im looking for anyone who as encountered this before in game, and what was the result?
When making a full attack action, a hasted creature may make one extra attack with any weapon he is holding. The attack is made using the creature's full base attack bonus, plus any modifiers appropriate to the situation. (This effect is not cumulative with similar effects, such as that provided by a speed weapon, nor does it actually grant an extra action, so you can't use it to cast a second spell or otherwise take an extra action in the round.)
If you know the answer then why are you asking? Haste doesn't grant you another action to use it, it just adds another hit onto your iterative attacks.
When making a full attack action, a hasted creature may make one extra attack with any weapon he is holding. The attack is made using the creature's full base attack bonus, plus any modifiers appropriate to the situation. (This effect is not cumulative with similar effects, such as that provided by a speed weapon, nor does it actually grant an extra action, so you can't use it to cast a second spell or otherwise take an extra action in the round.)If you know the answer then why are you asking? Haste doesn't grant you another action to use it, it just adds another hit onto your iterative attacks.
This.
Hasn't come up because the guys I play with know better. I would imagine there may be a shaming involved at the table if someone tried to argue to allow this.
Go be the slow time monk for the 3 standard actions.
so i know that vital strike takes a standard action (RAI, not RAW) to use, and you cannot use it on a full attack action. But could you use the vital strike if you were hasted, or had "speed" on armour or weapon, using vital strike on the last attack?
i know the answer to this, but im looking for anyone who as encountered this before in game, and what was the result?
err by RAW it takes a standard action also. but haste doesn't give you more standard actions.
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Go be the slow time monk for the 3 standard actions.
Mmmmm.... delicious four winds living forever, and then slowing down time while living forever. It's like playing Jade Empire every day for eternity!
Honestly it's my favorite flavor of Monk precisely for the immortality. It's just fun background stuff.
Go be the slow time monk for the 3 standard actions.Mmmmm.... delicious four winds living forever, and then slowing down time while living forever. It's like playing Jade Empire every day for eternity!
Honestly it's my favorite flavor of Monk precisely for the immortality. It's just fun background stuff.
Yes it really is just an elegantly built archetype.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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1) vital strike takes a standard action (RAI, not RAW) to use
2) you cannot use it on a full attack action.
3) But could you use the vital strike if you were hasted, or had "speed" on armour or weapon, using vital strike on the last attack?
1) Some (like me) wonder why people keep thinking it isn't a standard since it says "as an attack action" and there is only one attack action in the game, and it is a standard action to perform. But I'm getting off topic.
2) No, you can't since it is a standard.
3) Clearly not, since to gain the benefit of the haste or speed you must be making a full attack action which is explicitly incompatible with a Standard action Vital Strike.
1) Some (like me) wonder why people keep thinking it isn't a standard since it says "as an attack action" and there is only one attack action in the game, and it is a standard action to perform. But I'm getting off topic.1) vital strike takes a standard action (RAI, not RAW) to use
2) you cannot use it on a full attack action.
3) But could you use the vital strike if you were hasted, or had "speed" on armour or weapon, using vital strike on the last attack?
It really is poorly worded and a simple change: "as a standard action..." would fix the problem. "Attack action" isn't defined anywhere and that is what causes the problem.
I have a question though, would it be reasonable to assume that you can use vital strike when you use fly-by attack?
Yes, and there is unofficial approval of using it with Spring Attack also. But with haste? Nope.
It really is poorly worded and a simple change: "as a standard action..." would fix the problem. "Attack action" isn't defined anywhere and that is what causes the problem.Attack is defined as a standard action. Being too lazy to pull out my book and look up the exact page number, here is a direct quote from the SRD:
Standard Actions
Most of the common actions characters take, aside from movement, fall into the realm of standard actions.Attack
Making an attack is a standard action....
Multiple Attacks
A character who can make more than one attack per round must use the full-attack action (see Full-Round Actions) in order to get more than one attack.I think that pretty much defines an attack as a standard action.
As the GM, I would definitely allow vital strike with a flyby attack, since you are making a single attack as a standard action.
I think that's why there is confusion. You can have multiple attacks and even though you need to use a full-attack action, it is still easily seen as an attack action because it's right in the name. It's the only thing I can see listed that way. Like I said, a simple changing of the wording would eliminate all but the most hard-headed players.
My players are going to cry when they start fighting dragons that have vital strike and flyby attack. I had already come to the conclusion that it was legit, I was just looking to see if anyone read it differently. I would hate to make a poor ruling that cost a character his life.
Re: Flyby Attack + Vital Strike
Don't think you can combine the two by RAW, as you cannot combine Spring Attack + Vital Strike.
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I am sorry to ask but my group says that hast and vital strike stack. I say they don't. Could you give me the links to show them. I am sorry to ask?
Here:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/pathfinder-faq#TOC-Vital-Strike-8-20-10-
With links to where all that was actually said. It's a Standard Action. Unless they allow Haste to grant a Wizard an additional Spell (also a Standard Action) per round, it shouldn't work with Vital Strike.
Re: Flyby Attack + Vital Strike
Don't think you can combine the two by RAW, as you cannot combine Spring Attack + Vital Strike.
fly by attack is worded differently than spring attack. it allows a standard action.
I am sorry to ask but my group says that hast and vital strike stack. I say they don't. Could you give me the links to show them. I am sorry to ask?
look up the lists of standard actions. you will see attack listed.
Re: Flyby Attack + Vital Strike
Don't think you can combine the two by RAW, as you cannot combine Spring Attack + Vital Strike.
Flyby specifically states that you can take a standard action in the middle of a move action.
"When flying, the creature can take a move action and another standard action at any point during the move. The creature cannot take a second move action during a round when it makes a flyby attack."
I think it's interesting that it is very similar to spring attack in concept but different in how it works. Makes sense since it is a different feat, otherwise the game would only need spring attack.
Re: Flyby Attack + Vital Strike
Don't think you can combine the two by RAW, as you cannot combine Spring Attack + Vital Strike.
Flyby specifically states that you can take a standard action in the middle of a move action.
"When flying, the creature can take a move action and another standard action at any point during the move. The creature cannot take a second move action during a round when it makes a flyby attack."
I think it's interesting that it is very similar to spring attack in concept but different in how it works. Makes sense since it is a different feat, otherwise the game would only need spring attack.
It's been explained somewhere (3.5 dev?) that the intent of it is to allow a dragon to do a strafing run - fly over, breathe (standard action), then fly away. Since they can't do that with spring attack, they needed a new feat.
It's been explained somewhere (3.5 dev?) that the intent of it is to allow a dragon to do a strafing run - fly over, breathe (standard action), then fly away. Since they can't do that with spring attack, they needed a new feat.Re: Flyby Attack + Vital Strike
Don't think you can combine the two by RAW, as you cannot combine Spring Attack + Vital Strike.
Flyby specifically states that you can take a standard action in the middle of a move action.
"When flying, the creature can take a move action and another standard action at any point during the move. The creature cannot take a second move action during a round when it makes a flyby attack."
I think it's interesting that it is very similar to spring attack in concept but different in how it works. Makes sense since it is a different feat, otherwise the game would only need spring attack.
That makes perfect sense my son. It's interesting how a simple idea ends up being used in unintended ways.
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sorry, not trying to be snarky, but I just wanted the source of this decision; is this the PRPG third printing errata?why can't you vital strike as part of a spring attack?It was Errata'ed that using Spring Attack was a special type of Full Action.
it was changed in the 8/20 errata as it says here
Re: Flyby Attack + Vital Strike
Don't think you can combine the two by RAW, as you cannot combine Spring Attack + Vital Strike.
By RAW, but James Jacobs remarked in a thread that it was a bit silly that you couldn't and basically said if it wasn't broken go for it. I houserule it as valid in my games.
My group rules that if your hasted and you vital strike you get another dice to the damage. An extra dice isn't alot of damage and the hasted attack would be at max to hit anyway so we all think its pretty balanced that way.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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you can use vital strike when you use fly-by attack?
Yes of course, as it allows a standard action.
Yes, and there is unofficial approval of using it with Spring Attack also. But with haste? Nope.
More like "I'd probably allow it in my game but that isn't how it works" and less like unofficial approval.
a simple changing of the wording would eliminate all but the most hard-headed players.
My players are going to cry when they start fighting dragons that have vital strike and flyby attack.
There are a few things that say "when using an attack action" (Overhand Chop/Slow Time) and if you changed VS to be "as a standard action" those would no longer work. The use of "attack action" is a deliberate effort to allow it to be combined with some things.
I've used dragons with VS and Flyby a lot. This weekend, I used a Gargantuan dragon with 16d6 Bite via Vital Strike with fly-by attack and quickened spells via Rod of Quicken. No players complained.
why can't you vital strike as part of a spring attack?
Because it explicitly say they couldn't be used together. But was so often confused, they pushed out errata to block it more explicitly.
I've used dragons with VS and Flyby a lot. This weekend, I used a Gargantuan dragon with 16d6 Bite via Vital Strike with fly-by attack and quickened spells via Rod of Quicken. No players complained.
When I said "cry," I didn't mean they were going to complain. I meant that they were going to be very worried that the dragon's attack is going to be 24d6+66 19-20/x2 and that is before she buffs herself.
I've used dragons with VS and Flyby a lot. This weekend, I used a Gargantuan dragon with 16d6 Bite via Vital Strike with fly-by attack and quickened spells via Rod of Quicken. No players complained.When I said "cry," I didn't mean they were going to complain. I meant that they were going to be very worried that the dragon's attack is going to be 24d6+66 19-20/x2 and that is before she buffs herself.
Well, if a gargantuan dragon flies over you and bites you... I expect you to die, mr Bond ;)