I want to create a lilend with several bard levels, but how do I reconcile the fact that lillends are essentially 7th-level bards? If I add bard levels to a lilend, does this mean the lilend will have two bard spell lists to keep track of along wiht similar bard abilities? I sure would appreicate any help on this matter.
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Monster Advancement, Adding Class Levels, Step 2: Add Class Levels, 2nd paragraph:
If the creature possesses class features (such as spellcasting or sneak attack) for the class that is being added, these abilities stack.
A Lilend with 1 Bard Level would have the spellcasting and Bardic Performance abilities of an 8th-Level Bard.
Creative Director
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Yup. Levels of bard you add to a lillend increase her spellcasting power on a 1 for 1 basis.
Thus, a lillend with 10 levels of bard would have the spellcasting power of a 17th level bard, but only the powers of a 10th level bard when it came to the bard's other powers (performance, etc.).
Yup. Levels of bard you add to a lillend increase her spellcasting power on a 1 for 1 basis.
Thus, a lillend with 10 levels of bard would have the spellcasting power of a 17th level bard, but only the powers of a 10th level bard when it came to the bard's other powers (performance, etc.).
Wouldn't they other class features the Lillend has for bard stack up too? The line Arazyr quoted above makes me think so since sneak attack would be increased.
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Creative Director
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Wouldn't they other class features the Lillend has for bard stack up too? The line Arazyr quoted above makes me think so since sneak attack would be increased.Yup. Levels of bard you add to a lillend increase her spellcasting power on a 1 for 1 basis.
Thus, a lillend with 10 levels of bard would have the spellcasting power of a 17th level bard, but only the powers of a 10th level bard when it came to the bard's other powers (performance, etc.).
Actually, yeah. Bardic performance would also be improved by more bard levels (I totally forgot that azatas get bardic performance as a monster ability).
It's actually VERY unusual for a spellcasting monster to gain additional class abilities associated with that spellcasting class. In fact, I can't think of many other examples other than the lillend where this occurs.
But yes. A lillend with 10 levels of bard would have the spellcasting power AND the bardic performance power of a 17th level bard.
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Wouldn't they other class features the Lillend has for bard stack up too? The line Arazyr quoted above makes me think so since sneak attack would be increased.Yup. Levels of bard you add to a lillend increase her spellcasting power on a 1 for 1 basis.
Thus, a lillend with 10 levels of bard would have the spellcasting power of a 17th level bard, but only the powers of a 10th level bard when it came to the bard's other powers (performance, etc.).
Actually, yeah. Bardic performance would also be improved by more bard levels (I totally forgot that azatas get bardic performance as a monster ability).
It's actually VERY unusual for a spellcasting monster to gain additional class abilities associated with that spellcasting class. In fact, I can't think of many other examples other than the lillend where this occurs.
But yes. A lillend with 10 levels of bard would have the spellcasting power AND the bardic performance power of a 17th level bard.
What if the Lillend adds levels of a bard archetype, like magician? I assume the spell advancement stacks, but are the performance types added separately or does the lillend's innate performance change to that of the archetype?
Bump
Bump
I think the last post is FAQ worthy since I don't think the rules cover it.
BumpI think the last post is FAQ worthy since I don't think the rules cover it.
Seconded.
If I had to decide, I'd be torn between 'don't do that' or 'switch the whole bard abilities to the archetype'... anything else would result in a mixture of archetype abilities, and I don't want to open that can of worms...
Midnight Angel wrote:
If I had to decide, I'd be torn between 'don't do that' or 'switch the whole bard abilities to the archetype'... anything else would result in a mixture of archetype abilities, and I don't want to open that can of worms...
Yeah that makes my head hurt.
On a related note, I never understood why all creatures weren't just given class levels to begin with. You can game fiat that beasts/monsters might gain levels very slowly, or that most outsiders don't level at all, and list stat blocks for the 'commonest' of their type.
Yes, it's simpler to just list stat blocks, but then you run into the above problem. A Lillend is most of a 7th level Bard. Why not just make the average Lillend a 7th level Bard?
On a related note, I never understood why all creatures weren't just given class levels to begin with. You can game fiat that beasts/monsters might gain levels very slowly, or that most outsiders don't level at all, and list stat blocks for the 'commonest' of their type.
Yes, it's simpler to just list stat blocks, but then you run into the above problem. A Lillend is most of a 7th level Bard. Why not just make the average Lillend a 7th level Bard?
Because then you would have to add a monster class for monsters that use their innate abilities and not those of a defined class. A lillend happens to be very bard-y and a rakshasa very soecerer-y, but many monsters don't fit neatly into a class.
What if the Lillend adds levels of a bard archetype, like magician? I assume the spell advancement stacks, but are the performance types added separately or does the lillend's innate performance change to that of the archetype?...
But yes. A lillend with 10 levels of bard would have the spellcasting power AND the bardic performance power of a 17th level bard.
Perhaps there could be a table with archetypes; somehow I imagine a lillend songhealer would be more likely than a lillend dirgesinger.
By the way, can someone try to pitch the idea of "lillend geisha" to the artists? I am curious what they'll make out of it :) .