so i been wanting to run clerics and i ran couple and it been alright
so i was wondering that systems with multiple gods are clerics limited to one diety
in greek history there were many gods and ppl worshiped many so why cant a cleric have more than one with limits
worship gods with similar alignments or close to same such as for exsample
i have two gods
one NG other LG limit being that i worship law i side step chaos and if im good no evil
so is there rules against this and whats ppl opinions
|
Yes, there are rules against this, but that probably doesn't help you. A cleric is not like a normal polytheistic believer (or, to put it another way, the gods don't give normal polytheistic believers special powers). As an ordained divine servant, he has to dedicate himself to one church and, in rules terms, pick one set of options for channelling, domains, favoured weapon and so on.
Most often, one church means one god, but there are exceptions:
- Some worlds allow clerics of a pantheon, who serve a whole group of gods equally. They can't just pick two or three at random - it's a known form of worship defined by the setting.
- Some worlds allow clerics of an alignment. The core rulebook tells you what domains and favoured weapon a cleric of each alignment gets.
so i been wanting to run clerics and i ran couple and it been alright
so i was wondering that systems with multiple gods are clerics limited to one diety
in greek history there were many gods and ppl worshiped many so why cant a cleric have more than one with limits
worship gods with similar alignments or close to same such as for exsample
i have two gods
one NG other LG limit being that i worship law i side step chaos and if im good no evil
so is there rules against this and whats ppl opinions
By RAW, a cleric either has to choose a specific deity or a general philosophy. However, if your world has a deity of "The Twins" or "The Multitude" or something like that, that would work too. There's no game-breaking reason why worshiping multiple deities would be a problem, aside from the case where their interests conflict. If I had a player who wanted to worship two gods, I'd tell them to choose an aspect of similarity between them, worship that, and be limited to domains that relate to that aspect. In character, they could call on either or both of the gods as appropriate, but mechanically, they don't worship either.
|
It's setting dependent.
The core rules allow a cleric to worship a god, or an ideal.
Even the Golarion setting, which explicitly forbids choosing an 'ideal' as the source of one's divine power, still allows for a cleric to serve a pantheon of allied gods (like the worshippers of the Dwarven pantheon or the Elven gods as a whole, mentioned in Gods & Magic, p 47-48), or a smaller alliance of gods (like the five lawful dieties who back the Godclaw), or a syncretist fusion of two or more gods (like the Mwangi diety Shimye-Magalla, who is a mashup / slash pairing of Gozreh and Desna).
So long as there's a plausible reason why the gods would be working together in this fashion (relatives, racial dieties, allied against a common foe), there's plenty of precedent, even in Golarion, which is stricter about such matters than the core PF rules.
So it boils down to;
If the GM doesn't like it, it's right out, but otherwise, go for it.
The Greeks pretty much worshipped all the Gods of the Greek pantheon. In some settings, mostly generic, it is alright to worship a philosophy which I consider a pantheon priest a likely form of. Optionally you might consider making an Oracle instead to fill such a role.
If you are a cleric of multiple gods/goddesses will you be proficient in all of their weapons?It's setting dependent.
The core rules allow a cleric to worship a god, or an ideal.
Even the Golarion setting, which explicitly forbids choosing an 'ideal' as the source of one's divine power, still allows for a cleric to serve a pantheon of allied gods (like the worshippers of the Dwarven pantheon or the Elven gods as a whole, mentioned in Gods & Magic, p 47-48), or a smaller alliance of gods (like the five lawful dieties who back the Godclaw), or a syncretist fusion of two or more gods (like the Mwangi diety Shimye-Magalla, who is a mashup / slash pairing of Gozreh and Desna).
So long as there's a plausible reason why the gods would be working together in this fashion (relatives, racial dieties, allied against a common foe), there's plenty of precedent, even in Golarion, which is stricter about such matters than the core PF rules.
So it boils down to;
If the GM doesn't like it, it's right out, but otherwise, go for it.
No, at best you'd be proficient with your choice of their weapons, assuming there isn't a defined weapon for the group.
|
|
If you are a cleric of multiple gods/goddesses will you be proficient in all of their weapons?
SKR said that the bonus weapon proficiency in the weapon of your diety only applies to clerics who choose a specific diety. (I believe he was specifically asked what the favored weapon of a cleric of the Godclaw would be and he said 'none.')
Dilettantes need not apply.
The only possible exception would be those Dwarven clerics of Torag, who are considered clerics of Torag, but can pray for a couple of hours to lose access to their current domains, but gain access to a single domain from one of the other dwarven gods. That's a special case, I suspect. They're just Torag clerics, with Torag's favored weapon, who can monkey around with their domains through a special and temporary technique.
But the elven clerics of Calistra/Desna/Nethys/Findeladlara/Ketephys/Yuelral don't get a favored weapon, 'cause they couldn't make up their darn mind and the older clerics who teach favored weapon training told them to bugger off. :)
|
Yes, there are rules against this, but that probably doesn't help you. A cleric is not like a normal polytheistic believer (or, to put it another way, the gods don't give normal polytheistic believers special powers). As an ordained divine servant, he has to dedicate himself to one church and, in rules terms, pick one set of options for channelling, domains, favoured weapon and so on.
Most often, one church means one god, but there are exceptions:
- Some worlds allow clerics of a pantheon, who serve a whole group of gods equally. They can't just pick two or three at random - it's a known form of worship defined by the setting.
- Some worlds allow clerics of an alignment. The core rulebook tells you what domains and favoured weapon a cleric of each alignment gets.
Mystara: Church of Traladara (Immortal Patrons: HALAV, PETRRA, ZIRCHEV)
well thx guys
|
|
So if your cleric is a cleric of a church of several allied gods - it means you have access to a greater collection of Domains to chose from.
Maybe. I prefer to think you have access to domains that are appropriate for all gods in the group.
Alignment Domains: Only those that are granted by at least one of the deities and are within one step of all gods in the group. This means that a pantheon can grant, at most, two alignment domains and often does not grant any.
Other domains and subdomains: edit: First drop in any domains that seem absolutely integral to the group's reason for allying with each other, then add to the list in descending order of the number of deities in the group who grant each domain. Add appropriate subdomains until the pantheon offers the right number of domains and subdomains for a single true deity: 5 domains and 6 subdomains.
An example:
The Warders of Rovagug (Abadar, Apsu, Asmodeus, Calistria, Curchanus, Dahak, Desna, Dou-Bral, Erastil, Gozreh, Minderhal, Pharasma, Sarenrae, and Torag)
Domains: Artifice, Earth, Fire, Travel, Trickery
Subdomains: Ash, Caves, Deception, Metal, Toil, Trade
Favoured Weapon: Spiked chain
Generally speaking, being more generic is less interesting from a roleplaying perspective, and so should be less (or at least no more) rewarding from a mechanical perspective. Therefore, a cleric of two deities should have (if anything) less options, not more. In my opinion, and if it helps, and so on, et cetera.
Starglim gives a good example of how to be scrupulously fair; but your GM doesn't have to be like that, any more than you have to worship two gods.
I agree, except for the part that it is less interesting from a roleplaying perspective, a pantheon priest pays lip service to several deities depending on the circumstances and the deities dominon as such it might actually be quite interesting to see how you juggle those interests against your own.
|
|
I agree, except for the part that it is less interesting from a roleplaying perspective, a pantheon priest pays lip service to several deities depending on the circumstances and the deities dominon as such it might actually be quite interesting to see how you juggle those interests against your own.
Yeah, playing a pantheist, particularly when the pantheon is as diverse as the Olympians, or the Godclaw, is way more interesting than playing a cookie-cutter cleric of just a single diety, with a single specific pre-approved way of responding to a situation.
A priest of a pantheon that includes a merciful goddess of healing and community, and a dispassionate god of fate and death, could have what seems like whiplash reactions to a PC dropping to negative hit points, and one that expires. He'll might be rushing to save them, invoking the healing goddess to show mercy and preserve their life, but if they die before he can save them, he'll could shrug and mutter a prayer to the death-god to speed them on their way, seeming to change from 'oh, he's hurt, quick do something!' to 'eh, he's dead, Jim, move along'...
Depending on the pantheon, such a cleric could appear almost schizophrenic, as *everything* becomes sacred, to one of the gods he reveres, and he might have a sunny annoying disposition, since, to his perspective, he's *surrounded* with little miracles and observances, each pleasing to a different member of his pantheon of patron dieties.
Or he could be the glass half empty guy, who notes any incident that he feels is disrespectful to one of his half-dozen or dozen gods, leaving companions with the distinct impression that *everything* offends him and he's just looking for things to complain about...
The Greeks pretty much worshipped all the Gods of the Greek pantheon. In some settings, mostly generic, it is alright to worship a philosophy which I consider a pantheon priest a likely form of. Optionally you might consider making an Oracle instead to fill such a role.
Yes the Greek and Roman PEOPLE worshipped a pantheon but the PRIESTS of that pantheon served one deity of that pantheon.
They gave respect and acknowledged the other gods of course, especially in those deities area's of 'control' and would offer them worship where it was appropriate, but an actual dedicated Priest had ONE master/mistress: Their chosen God/Goddess.
A Priest of Apollo was not also a priest of Zeus simply because boh were in the same pantheon, he was a Priest of Apollo. He would defer to a priest of Zeus in matters related to rulership or civil authority for example, but the priest of Zeus would seek a priest of Apollo on matters related to the sun, healing or prophecy since those were all area's that Apollo was 'master' of.
Deities, especially ones in Pantheons, usually want exclusive service from a priest so they know that THEIR agenda's are being advanced and not compromised on. Just becaue a potential priest wants the power of multiple patrons in no way means that multiple patrons want to give that priest power, nor that doing so would advance their personal agenda's without cost. God's have an entire material plane of followers to use. There is nothing that says that multiple deities could or would invest power into one being, after all one guy can only do so much and if he is pursuning the causes of multiple deities it can be hard to get ANYTHING done, whereas mutliple dedicated priests can cover more ground and are sure to be only working towards their gods goals.
That all said, it is a fact that if you want to do something different in your game and none of your players or yourself see it as broken you should go ahead and do it if you find it fun.
The Greeks pretty much worshipped all the Gods of the Greek pantheon. In some settings, mostly generic, it is alright to worship a philosophy which I consider a pantheon priest a likely form of. Optionally you might consider making an Oracle instead to fill such a role.Yes the Greek and Roman PEOPLE worshipped a pantheon but the PRIESTS of that pantheon served one deity of that pantheon.
They gave respect and acknowledged the other gods of course, especially in those deities area's of 'control' and would offer them worship where it was appropriate, but an actual dedicated Priest had ONE master/mistress: Their chosen God/Goddess.
A Priest of Apollo was not also a priest of Zeus simply because boh were in the same pantheon, he was a Priest of Apollo. He would defer to a priest of Zeus in matters related to rulership or civil authority for example, but the priest of Zeus would seek a priest of Apollo on matters related to the sun, healing or prophecy since those were all area's that Apollo was 'master' of.
Deities, especially ones in Pantheons, usually want exclusive service from a priest so they know that THEIR agenda's are being advanced and not compromised on. Just becaue a potential priest wants the power of multiple patrons in no way means that multiple patrons want to give that priest power, nor that doing so would advance their personal agenda's without cost. God's have an entire material plane of followers to use. There is nothing that says that multiple deities could or would invest power into one being, after all one guy can only do so much and if he is pursuning the causes of multiple deities it can be hard to get ANYTHING done, whereas mutliple dedicated priests can cover more ground and are sure to be only working towards their gods goals.
That all said, it is a fact that if you want to do something different in your game and none of your players or yourself see it as broken you should go ahead and do it if you find it fun.
I am not exactly sure wether or not that was the case with the ancient greeks, I had the impression there were several ways to worship the deities, and several cults paid homage to several of the gods if not all. Either way it is very conceivable to have a priest worship a multitude of gods and saints and demi-gods as part of a single religion.
Creative Director
|
Clerics have one deity; allowing them to have more than one not only complicates things too much, but also devalues the core concept of the cleric as a servitor of a god or goddess. Of course, it's possible to twist/tweak the rules to allow for multiple deity clerics, but the GM who does this should be ready to answer weird questions that pop up.
In Golarion, it just doesn't work. A cleric can only serve one deity.
Our solution for players who want to play divine spellcasters who serve multiple deities is the oracle.
|
In the third edition Deities and Demigods book, there was the "tight pantheon" rule that said if the deities are organized in a very strongly related pantheon (much like the Greek gods were), a cleric could choose to worship the pantheon as a whole. In which case, he could select two domains from all the domains associated with the gods in the pantheon.
In which case, I would apply a similar rule to the favored weapon proficiency: A pantheon cleric could select one deity's favored weapon for his proficiency slot.
I've always hated the favored weapon nonsense. What is the point of restricting someone's weapon selection if they can still use one of the best and most common weapons anyway. Oh no, a magical three piece staff... I guess I'll just have to wait for my deities weapon of choice, the longsword, to drop.
Favored Weapons are extremely varied: (from memory)
Calistria: WhipIomadea: Long Sword
Saranrae: Scimitar
Cayden: Rapier
Zon-Kuthon: Spiked Chain
Shelyn: Glaive
Irori: Unarmed Strike
Norgorber: Shortsword
Erastil: Longbow
Each and every one of those weapons would require a Cleric to spend a Feat to be proficient (unless you were an Elf! lol). That is the advantage of the class ability.
It's not about 'restricting' it's about flavor: Clerics are by default proficient with all simple melee weapons-club, mace (metal club!), staff (long club!), crossbows, and a few others. Giving them access to another weapon is not about getting around restrictions. For example, is a Shortsword really better than a Heavy Mace? Maybe, maybe not ;) However, a Scimitar is clearly better than a Light Mace.
Now, allowing a PC to be a 'servant of all' could be interesting, but it smells like "I want whatever Domains I like" munchkin-ism. Before I would consider allowing it, I would get a clear back-story and motivation. :)
Side Note: I found RotRL #2 (Skinsaw Murders) very frustrating: here the PCs are getting access to magic weapons for the first time and the weapons we loot are flippin' "War Razors" Are you serious? :(
GNOME
Conversely, in my 'custom' world, I just went with one 'higher power' and the Clerics chose what aspect of the 'higher power' they revere. Same Church, but each cleric drawing power from the aspect that resonated most strongly with him/her. In short, pick your Spheres and play to your alignment.
In short, pick your Spheres ...
Is that anything like scratching yer bum?
*grin*
GNOME
In short, pick your Spheres ...Is that anything like scratching yer bum?
*grin*
GNOME
Only in the Underdark.