Thanks all. I'm bummed I didn't realize all this when the party arrived in Illmarsh. I certainly didn't think Zhangar was making it up. I wish the the author had made that aspect of the Illmarsh citizenry clear. I especially wish I had more time to prepare!
I think what I may do is, when the party emerges from the skum tunnels and returns to Illmarsh, they will find that the sheriff has killed himself. His suicide note will lament his complicity in Voltiaro's dealings. He will acknowledge he should have known better as someone who spent time outside Illmarsh in the military. The note will also detail a bit of history -- stories of fishy grandfathers -- but also explain how over the last 20 years he and the Voltiaros have been drowning the infant boy-skum hybrids returned to Illmarsh -- the outside scrutiny was becoming too much to allow the deformed males to live in town.
I may also have the party discover a hidden shrine to the Piper of Illmarsh in the temple, and pick up Zhangar's idea of him as "a vigilante who came in the night with his flocks of stirges and purged outsiders and unbelievers."
I’ve got a bit of a quandary, and I’m curious how you all would handle it. The PCs in my campaign are in the dome and the Dark Young has just manifested, and all 4 mi-go are still alive (although 2 are close to death). Although I warned the PCs in no uncertain terms that resource management was key in this stage of the module, the PCs basically have nothing left -- the cleric and wizard have basically no spells left; the barbarian is fatigued (I think) and has no rage rounds left and is significantly down in HP; the (high AC) rogue/fighter is fine.
The party is talking about retreating, since the dark young can’t fit into the cave complex. That’s fine, but Shub-Niggurath will soon begin to fully manifest in the waters of the bay (although the PCs may not see it if they leave the dome). If they don’t defeat the Dark Young soon, Shub-Niggurath will destroy Illmarsh. And will the rift in reality at some point become uncloseable if the party doesn’t soon defeat the Dark Young?
At the opening of the next session I plan to use the previously suggested idea of having Desna stop time and speak to the party, and she can communicate the desperation of the situation and give the PCs some boons that may give them the courage to continue the fight. My main question for you all is what boons? One bit of context is that I haven’t yet killed any PCs in the AP and I kind of think there won’t be enough consequences for the lack of resource management (which has been an ongoing issue) if they all come out of this alive. So I’m reluctant to give them too much. On the other hand, I don’t want this to become a TPK.
One thought is: the cleric and wizard each get to recall one spell of their choice (but not a spell for fleeing like dimension door or teleport); the barbarian gets unfatigued and 25% of his rage rounds back (which would probably be enough for the rest of the battle); and the rogue/fighter gets a dose of Desna’s Fortune (like Good Fortune -- she can reroll any one roll). If that’s not enough I could let the cleric and wizard each recall one spell from each level (again, not defensive spells). I thought about giving everyone a hero point too, but that might just end up letting them cheat death (again), and I wouldn’t mind killing one or two of them as long as it isn’t a TPK.
Thanks for any thoughts you have.
An interesting thought. But the Dark Young is intelligent enough to recognize the Mi-Go as followers, and the PCs are such a tastier meal. And it manifested right next to the barbarian. Plus, I kind of liked the idea of trying to kill the wizard and cleric through Mi-Go vivisection. I suppose the dark young could use its first round to trample the barbarian, rogue, and the two Mi-Go that are nearby...
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That is a tough one.
I would be reluctant to have Desna step in but that does sound like a pretty good option. That dungeon can be a hard place to find a rest.
Alternatively perhaps they could find themselves with several NPC helpers in the form of Skum or other worshippers of Dagon who see an option to try and stop Shub-Niggurath by helping the PC's.
I just had a ridiculous idea for an alternate scenario where Horace Croon crashes his submersible into the 'window' of the dome just as the Dark Young emerges and the damage starts to flood the underwater tunnels. The PC's have to make a fighting retreat to escape the caves before their ultimate collapse at the last second!
No? Yeah it is kinda crazy.
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A mythic tier.
Temporary or permanent, your choice. (I would suggest temporary.)
One tier will grant: hard to kill, mythic power, surge +1d6, one mythic feat.
You choose what they get, but my suggestion is:
Archmage for the sorcerer, and the wild arcana attack and bloodline intensity for his ability.
Hierophant for the cleric, and the inspired spell attack, and maybe the mythic domain ability.
The Trickster has a lot to offer the fighter/rogue. Fleet Charge or Surprise Strike for the attack, and Defensive Dodge, Master of Escape, Redirect Attention, Transfer Magic, or Unintentional Feint as the Path Abilities. Some of these might work well for the Barbarian.
Champion, Guardian are good choices for the barbarian (though they have appeal for the fighter/rogue as well. Absorb Blow for the "attack" ability, with Avenging Maneuver, Draw Fire, Empathic Healing, or Quick Recovery work. Fleet Charge and Sudden Strike for the Champion attack, with Blowback, Flash of Rage, Impossible Speed, or (ESPECIALLY!) Mythic Rage.
The Trickster, Champion, and Guardian all work fairly well for the barbarian and fighter/rogue.
An alternate possibility, if you like, is a 24-hour mythic simple template. (I would suggest choosing which for each, and if you want it simple, granting the agile or invincible for all of them.) This will still grant them mythic abilities: hard to kill, mythic power, surge +1d8, amazing initiative, recuperation, mythic saves, force of will, and three mythic feats and ability score increases (which will functionally give extra rage rounds and uses/day of special abilities).
EDIT: I was wrong! Upon re-reading it, they'd only get the ability score increase, the mythic feats, and the surge value. That makes it much more simple on you all. (Also, just so you don't have to go looking for it, they get three plus double their tier/rank per day - a total of five at first tier.)
Anyway, that helps introduce your group to (potentially?) new rules while simultaneously keeping its impact low.
As cool as the idea sounds, as well, it should come with some sort of drawback. After the adventure is over, perhaps enforce a negative level or three for a while. Maybe make them permanent until removed by restoration. If you want to be really harsh, have them all hit by a maximized, empowered energy drain-like effect, with no save, dealing 12 permanent negative levels after the mythic power fades. This will take them some time to recover - quite some time in fact - hammering home just how badly they messed up before.
EDIT 2: I realize in retrospect that 12 permanent negative levels will kill the party - any party - that has followed the XP track. Whoops - I'd actually entirely forgotten that Ashes of Dawn came after this and for some reason was flipping them in my head in terms of levels! Instead, just make it a maximized version, for 8 negative levels, or arbitrate their current level -1 (so if they're already eleventh level, it's 10 negative levels, for example).
The effect, it should be noted, isn't a "punishment" from Desna (or whoever you use, see below) - it's literally the "cost" of empowering such failed mortals with that kind of power. It helps if Desna's hands are otherwise tied.
The vision could come from Desna, her Herald, the Night Monarch, or the Black Butterfly.
EDIT 2: It also doesn't have to be an actual "Time Stop", or even verbal communication. You can describe it as a frozen moment where they can't move, but everything slows to the point of a crawl then halts - even the PCs - although they become "aware" of movement (say a radial butterfly) that approaches them. Then describe the gist of what they see.
EDIT 3: setting the words aside for clarity of posting
GM: ""Fighter/Rogue-player: "<says something to ^ effect>"
PCs: "Accept WHAT?!"
GM: *instead of answering* ""
Cleric-player: "<says something to ^ effect>"
PCs: "But... what does the bargain do? And how were we supposed to know?"
GM: *instead of answering* ""
Sorcerer-player: "<says something to ^ effect>"
PCs: "Okay, so, what kind of "cost" are we talking about? Money? Because no way am I giving up my +2 sword of awesome!"
GM: *instead of answering* ""
Barbarian-player: "<says something to ^ effect>"
PCs: "Okay, but... now, we're lost. And how do we even know any of this? Can we talk to each other, or...?"
GM: ""
(Also, despite my example, you don't have to make them roll anything with this. Just relate it to things the characters already know, and you're set.)
Hope that helps!
Okay, the sheriff and the Voltarios drowning skum-boys behind the skum's back is a nice creepy touch.
(I'd made the sheriff a hard-core CE cultist; the party had to fight him (a general from the GMG) and his deputies (torturers from the GMG) after they raided the Dagon temple.)
But I took the approach that Illmarsh should be wrong enough that the PCs will sincerely discuss razing the town by the time they're done. My PCs didn't raze the town, but they actually debated it.
Considering that Shubby's directly involved in making a breach, this is a better place than most for a brief touch of intervention.
The 1/level offensive spell recall (or maybe 10 levels worth?), the rage rounds, and the fortune should be sufficient - the barbarian should kill an unadjusted Dark Young in a round or two, unless it grapples the barbarian.
I actually gave my PCs temporary mythic tiers for the fight, but I also made the Dark Young itself mythic. And they had to fight it for a round before they got a hand from the butterfly lady.
But yeah, the push through the skum tunnels is pretty resource intensive.
These forums are such an amazing resource! Thank you so much. I need to respond separately to each of you.
Tybid:
More interesting ideas! I don't think the skum would be much help, even if I invented a clutch of skum rebels hiding out and waiting for an opportunity to attack the Mi-Go. The Croon submersible idea is dramatic and hilarious, but a little implausible and not that helpful to the party (who, anyways, have air bubbles and wouldn’t be too threatened by the flood, decreasing the overall impact). But you did give me an idea: In my campaign the party actually spoke to the devilfish Dhauggota (after battling her to a retreat). She shared information with the party and learned about the Face of Dagon (Seasage Effigy), which she is very interested in acquiring for her home devilfish community in the depths of Lake Encarthan (the Gutaki are intelligent devilfish devoted to the worship of Dagon). She could return with allies in time to see the commotion in the dome and decide to intervene on the side of the party, as revenge against the Mi-Go (who turned the Skum away from Dagon), to prevent (the manifesting) Shub-Niggutath from destroying the Gutaki way of life, and to attempt to claim the Face of Dagon (either by force or more likely by purchase from the grateful party). Dhauggota and her allies could attack and burst open the dome and then provide other assistance from there.
But what is the hardness and HP of the dome? Would the flood drive the Dark Young to the surface, since I don’t see specifically that it doesn’t need to breathe, although frankly it seems ridiculous that it could drown. And what boons should I give the PCs (I’ve all along planned to do the Desna bit -- as elsewhere suggested in this thread -- for the dramatic impact)?
the Mi-Go are followers of Shub-Niggurath? From my understanding they are just experimenting with the moits without knowing what will happen, because they are fascinated by their mind-shielding properties.
That's a fair question. The module summary says "the mi-go decided to
perform a new experiment on the rider—infesting him with a slugspawn and manipulating its life cycle so that it spawns into a dark young of Shub-Niggurath." So they know what they are doing. They aren't followers exactly, but they intended to bring about the manifestation of at least the Dark Young.
Tacticslion (and Zhangar):
I have resisted the mythic approach, which is one that Zhangar mentioned as well (I, admittedly, have taken a lot of inspiration from Zhangar), mostly because I don't know anything about those rules and haven't had much time. But you seem to lay it all out for me, so it bears further investigation. My players would love it. And I like the idea of making it temporary and with negative level consequence. (Pushing the party to Caliphas with the weight of negative levels would have the additional benefit of making the encounter with the headless dark rider at the start of the next adventure harder. I'm concerned that encounter will be too easy.)
I'll probably still do the Dhauggota business, because I love that side plot, and the idea of the monster who is the lesser evil. I'll have to think about whether a mythic boon would be sufficient in itself, or if I also need to give some of the other boons I mentioned before.
Thanks again all!
Tacticslion, I just read your proposed dialogue. So so awesome. In light of how the party conducted itself, that harsher approach is probably more appropriate in my campaign than Zhangar's more playful and blissful boon (detailed previously).
Glad to help, Voomer!
The Mythic Rage ability from the Champion and the Wild Arcana and the Inspired Spell from the Archmage and Heirophant respectively are actually exactly what you wanted to do in game-terms anyway. The reason I suggested those three things were that they followed your desires (regaining rage rounds and the ability to cast a few more spells).
The ability score increase from the simple template does something similar (placing the boost into CON increases rage/day, while increasing the casting stat increases DC and grants additional bonus spells/day), though at a lower rate than the mythic powers, despite being a higher ability score boon.
Sorry for editing my other post so much. (I'm going to again to make the dialogue bit a little more legible...)
Again, hope that helps!
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Thanks. This is all VERY helpful.
And the black butterfly, who I had never heard of, is too perfect! A sworn enemy of the dark tapestry! I could even include some dialogue with the black butterfly explaining how she had to intervene on the party's behalf with Desna. How, the Song of the Spheres may be the patron of luck, but that she also expects her followers to create their own luck. But the Black Butterfly convinced her that the threat posed by Shub-Niggutath merited the intervention. I suppose this is sort of an images of the gods as squabbling like the Greek gods in Mount Olympus. But maybe that IS the Pathfinder vision.
Thanks. This is all VERY helpful.
And the black butterfly, who I had never heard of, is too perfect! A sworn enemy of the dark tapestry! I could even include some dialogue with the black butterfly explaining how she had to intervene on the party's behalf with Desna. How, the Song of the Spheres may be the patron of luck, but that she also expects her followers to create their own luck. But the Black Butterfly convinced her that the threat posed by Shub-Niggutath merited the intervention. I suppose this is sort of an images of the gods as squabbling like the Greek gods in Mount Olympus. But maybe that IS the Pathfinder vision.
The Black Butterfly is awesome! It's... also not really well known, having been introduced more recently (I only learned of it from Mikaze, and I constantly conflate it and the Night Herald.)
In fact, the Black Butterfly and Desna are best buddies! They're really, really important to each other, though I don't know the full details of their relationship.
To me, it's always read as BB is on the front lines against the darkness while Desna (due to Curchanus' influence) has become extremely focused on mortals and their self-willed destiny.
To some extent, it's entirely expected that the gods are somewhat finite and/or fallible. Not exactly Olympus-level frivolous fury, but definitely capable of emotional reactions. In fact, one of Desna's (not-so) ancient legends is that when a demon lord (Aolar, I think?) went a little too far (seducing, murdering, then inhabiting the corpse of one of Desna's most beloved clerics, using her to turn many people to evil, corrupt them, or simply destroy their souls without their knowledge) Desna went friggin' nuclear, stomped into the Abyss, literally killed Aolar in her own home... and accidentally stirred up almost every demon lord in the Abyss against her and all the gods. Because all of them were together, the gods thought they might not survive. There was a quorum in which the gods almost censured Desna, but Sarenrae and Shelyn stuck up for Desna, keeping her out of trouble, while Calistria managed to trick the demon-lords back into infighting so fiercely that they entirely forgot about the whole Desna-thing**.
EDIT: this might also explain the origin of canon of the... uh... "relationship", let's say... between Desna, Sarenrae, and Shelyn. James Jacobs has gone on record as saying that they are an "item"*, and I think that this might be where that started.
That might be perfect fodder for why Desna is hesitant to act directly, while another deity encourages her to do so, in addition to the "make your own luck" clause of her teachings.
* Look, it's not a "couple", because there are three of them, and saying they're a "triple" just sounds strange and redundant. Anyway, they also have an on-again off-again relationship. Cayden is definitely a "thing" for Desna, but they're inconsistent too. So... I dunno.
** I love that Calistria effectively trolled the demon lords into hating each other. Trickery indeed.
The story above is, from what I know, entirely canon, by the way - not made up by me, certainly. It's come from second hand knowledge, though, so: fair warning!
Also, as the Black Butterfly doesn't have a herald listed, it's possible that it doesn't have one, and uses Desna's Night Monarch, meaning the herald could show up and act for both of them at the same time!
My head is swimming with all the awesomeness. What an intriguing idea of the Night Monarch appearing and speaking on both of their behalf. It stands to reason Desna and the BB could instruct the Night Monarch to lay out the story -- Desna was deeply disappointed in the party (with whom she communed at the Temple of the Moon, warning them of this very encounter) and inclined to let them suffer their own consequences but the BB implored her to save Golarion from the horrors of the Dark Tapestry -- so the party understands how close they came to failure. And it also stands to reason that the rift that allowed Shub-Niggutath to manifest makes it easier for Desna and her Herald to work their influence as well.
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Black Butterfly is a demigoddess (more specifically, an azata empyreal lord) allegedly created by Desna, and referred to sometimes as Desna's Shadow. She's somewhere in the CR 26 to 30 range.
As a demigoddess, she doesn't have a herald - those are reserved for the true gods, like Desna.
The Night Monarch doing a favor for her sounds reasonable, though.
The Night Monarch's also huge, so having it appear briefly in the chamber (or outside of it?) would be funny.
Hmmm. Desna abandoning the party to die simply because she's disappointed in them doesn't feel very Desna-ish. Desna being too busy give them a hand because she's revving up to deal with the consequences of their probable failure (nuke the site from orbit - it's the only way to be sure) might be more like it. In this case, Black Butterfly's giving the PCs one last chance to salvage the situation before the surrounding region gets glassed by the incipient divine throwdown.
I'm inclined to be forgiving of players who botched their resource conservation in the skum tunnels, as, to be fair, the PCs might have no clue how incredibly high the stakes are until they reach the last room and Shubby tries to break into Golarion.
Now, Renchurch, on the other hand... The party goes there KNOWING they need to rescue an NPC to prevent Tar-Baphon's return. Requiring the party to clear it in a single run if they want to pull off the rescue would be perfectly reasonable.
^ That stuff.
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Your take on Desna's motivations makes sense, Zhangar.
As for whether my party knew what was at stake, I went out of the way to make it clear that stuff was about to go bad in a big way, and they couldn't count on popping in and out to Illmarsh, as they are wont to do. Among other things, Dhauggota was able to describe in detail the increasingly frequent manifestations of Shub-Niggutath. And, as if that wasn't enough: The barbarian is also an oracle with the haunted curse, and I've now and again had his body possessed by a fortune teller killed by the Whispering Way in Harrowstone. She warned them in no uncertain terms that something from the beyond was trying to manifest, that the barriers between worlds were thinning, and there was no time to waste. I may have laid it on a little thick, but I was making up for past failures to effectively communicate the urgency and my party's general attitude that they don't have to manage resources because they can pop in and out of dungeons like this is Keep on the Borderlands.
So, you can see why I kind of think it's time to kill one of them now.
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Voomer, I apologize for the lateness of the reply as everything in the last seven or so hours of posts reflects my final encounter almost exactly. My PCs had no spells left and little other resources (like 2 channels and maybe 5 rounds of bardic performance left); they did the whole dungeon in one go. To help, I gave them 1 Mythic Tier but also gave the Dark Young 3 Tiers. Mythic PCs are capable of ridiculous amounts of power, and offsetting that with the Dark Young having Tiers helped balance everything out. I went the whole 'Desna stops time thing', as I kind of describe at the bottom of my first post . I think Mythic might be the solution, especially since you can take their tiers away once the threat is over if you aren't comfortable continually using it. As for another solution..
Delay the complete manifestation of SN, and have the Dark Young follow them into the water. It might be really epic (or mean if they're not equipped for the underwater, but IIRC, there's so much treasure for that in the module that they should be fine) to have them fight in the dark depths amidst the manifesting elder god. You could even have the Devilfish show up to help.
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Hey guys quick question before my game tomorrow.
I looked it up and according to a ruling Vital Strike and Spring Attack work together. Does this mean that the Colour out of Space should be doing 12d6 damage per round?
I'm concerned that my casterless party is going to get dissolved tomorrow and thought I would ask if that is what everyone else did.
There's an official ruling that they don't work together. Sadly.
The colour out of space's touch DOES allow a save for half damage, but yeah, it should be vital striking every round that it can.
Hopefully they at least have magic weapons. Yeah, they're going to be sad pandas. They can run though!
I think Mythic might be the solution, especially since you can take their tiers away once the threat is over if you aren't comfortable continually using it. As for another solution.
Thanks, Rakshaka. I've benefited hugely from your suggestions on this thread. I'm going to see if I can study the Mythic Rules this week. My main concern is that Pathfinder is already pretty rules intensive, so adding on the Mythic rules may just lead to overload. But I'll see if I can figure it out. In any event, I don't think I'd want to give them the "Hard to Kill" aspect of the Mythic Rules...
I looked it up and according to a ruling Vital Strike and Spring Attack work together. Does this mean that the Colour out of Space should be doing 12d6 damage per round?
I'm concerned that my casterless party is going to get dissolved tomorrow and thought I would ask if that is what everyone else did.
My party was scared off from exploring the hallway where the Colour was. I'm going to have to figure out some appropriate consequence for their failure to get rid of it (any suggestions?), because I think the module specifically says something about it being released at the end if the PCs didn't get rid of it.
Hmm, it does seem kind of like an afterthought, doesn't it, considering where they are in the module. My suggestion if you really want to use it is to have it be a random encounter on the road between Illmarsh and Caliphas, unless they are teleporting there. Otherwise, as much as it sucks (since I really love encounter), I would drop the encounter altogether since thematically it ties to outer space horror and the fifth module isn't like that at all.
If I were dead set on running it, I'd have it show up, attempt to feed at each PC from up in the air, then shoot into the sky. It seems dirty, but what it would let you do (assuming enough PCs fail the save against its ickiness) is use it again as one of the Tyrant's Whispers (akin to a high level Summon Monster spell) or in place of an Animate Dream. Also, giving it the advanced and giant template seems like a good way to beef it up once they are 13th level or higher, reinforcing its horribleness.
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The Colour encounter was actually pretty dicey and ultimately would have been fatal for someone if not for something I added to the game.
When I completed the story arc for one of the players with the young woman in the nursery I gave her a boon.
Her shadow companion has 75% of her hp, and some of his old skill ranks which included knowledge dungeoneering.
She had failed to identify the Colour with her check (a 25) but her shadow companion rolled a 27 which allowed her to know all of the basic information about the colour (including it's typical alignment).
The paladin finally had a reason to use axiomatic.
Having not gotten to the boards in time I went ahead with the spring attack + vital strike plan. Several of them were 1 hit away from being ash before the fighter killed it.
It was a pretty epic fight.
Does anyone know what the picture on page 38 represents? It is next to the sidebar about the Book of Abstruse Geometries. Thanks
Huh. Good Question.
Originally, I'd assumed it was the holy symbol of Dagon, but nope, it's not. In fact, it doesn't look like any of the symbols for the demon lords. Unfortunately (or, depending on how you look at it, perhaps fortunately :D), neither the Great Old Ones or the Outer Gods have displayed symbols.
It could be a symbol of demon worship (though not a specific holy symbol relating to a demon lord), or a symbol related to the Dark Tapestry (especially Shub-Niggurath) in some way, or even something from the ancient corrupted druid circle from so long ago that started this mess. It could also be a symbol related to the summoning of a dimensional shambler. Sorry I can't be of more help, but that's all that I could come up with! Here's hoping someone else can bring some clarity.
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Does anyone know what the picture on page 38 represents? It is next to the sidebar about the Book of Abstruse Geometries. Thanks
If anyone is curious, I figured this out. The symbol is the original Elder Sign symbol conceived by HP Lovecraft. Not sure what it is in the context of the adventure, other than a general Old Ones symbol.
More info here
Great find, Ben!
EDIT: I find it very intriguing, then, that the sign - which can prevent harm from Deep Ones and can drive off the servants of Cthulu - is depicted next to a side-bar talking about "The Book of Abstruse Geometries" which grants bonuses about creatures from spaces beyond.
EDIT 2: Also, there's this on that same page:
This small space lies along the edge of the dome and beneath the stairs leading to the cupola. It is cramped and crowded with many boxes of old personal paraphernalia, now ruined and worthless. A small window looks out over the kitchens and grounds behind the house.
The image certainly seems to be a ruined piece of something.
Between that and the story elements, I'd suggest - at a guess, anyway - it's a left-over piece of the failed magical attempts - possibly as detailed in the tome - to bind and control different creatures.
I went with it being an object found with the Book of Abstruse Geometries, used as part of the summoning ritual for Dimensional Shamblers.
Does anyone know if Tongues would allow someone to understand/ "speak" Mi-go?
Mi-go communicate via a combination of clicking of pincers and subtle shifts in the coloration of their bulbous heads—other creatures can learn this language, but without similar biologies (or the ability to mimic these noises and colors with illusions) can only hope to “listen” to a mi-go.
I'm not sure if that counts as a spoken language and falls under Tongues. I ask because I have a Tongues cursed oracle PC that can understand any spoken language.
The entry also mentions
A mi-go can speak in a strange, buzzing voice, but generally only does so when forced to speak to other creatures.
but I'm assuming that would be if they spoke Common, Aklo, etc.
Any thoughts?
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I'd say you can use tongues to understand mi-go's clicking/lightshow language but not speak the native language since it isn't speaking but creating visualizations (which the Oracle cannot do unless the PC has strapped a few mind-controlled chameleons to their forehead). The second quote is for when a mi-go must speak to a non-mi-go in a non-mi-go language.
Hey,
My group is currently in Trial of the Beast, just started running it. I've been recommending that they take Iron Will and Great Fortitude no matter what class they have (including those with good fort and will saves already).
What sort of feats and bought items will prepare them for the events in Wake of the Watcher?
Given that there's a lot of Will saves in Wake, I was thinking of recommending both Iron Will and Improved Iron Will so as to prevent insanity. What do you guys think?
The sanity system is optional. If you don't think your players will enjoy it, then don't use it. Otherwise, no need to "strongly suggest" Will boosting feats, just let them slowly go insane.
There really isn't many feats in the Will boosting department other than Iron Will/ Improved Iron Will. Increasing Wisdom is also an option with gear.
Actually Ben, on top of the two you mentioned there is the trait: Indomitable Faith which increases Will saves by 1.
I dunno if it's worth it to blow an entire feat on getting that and another trait, though.
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Given that there's a lot of Will saves in Wake, I was thinking of recommending both Iron Will and Improved Iron Will so as to prevent insanity. What do you guys think?
Piccalo, you often seem to me to want to do players’ jobs for them.
My view is that as GMs, we shouldn’t be recommending what feats and traits our players are choosing for their characters, or throwing the most effective arsenal into their arms. It’s the players’ job to make their characters effective. It’s also part of the fun of the game for them.
Foreshadowing what’s to come, so that PCs research threats and plan intelligently, is in our purview. But whenever possible, we should let players do their own thinking and reach their own conclusions, even if they are disasterous for their characters. In my experience, players are most satisfied when they feel like they’re playing without a safety net, that they’re succeed or fail on their own merits, not with the GM’s help.
So instead of telling them to take Iron Will etc., I would foreshadow the threat of insanity, perhaps with a NPC whose will broke when faced with Lovecraftian horrors in Versex, and then consider the ball in their court.
i think i have seen somewhere a picture of the "depths" of the expedition under the tunnels on the "submersible" (part five, pag45-46, into the blue).
but isnt in the adventure nor in the interactive maps.
where i can have seen it ? i cant remember it... sorry to ask
Do you mean viewing the dome from the outside? I don't think there's official art of that. There's a picture of two of the iconics exploring ice tunnels before the bestiary, but that is just general and not applicable to the adventure.
Though I, too, have a vague recollection of something to that effect, it's not in any of the 'path entries, the map folio or the Rule of Fear... so I suspect it doesn't exist as an official thing, like Ben said.
anyway the picture was showing the surface of the lake on top and the vertical diving, with the base of the rocks and the 400 feet (not in scale) depth. then showed the submarine at the right depth and the entrance of the caves
Okay, so now I'm pretty sure that we're thinking of the same thing.
Somewhat stylized artwork, right? With various depths marked off?
Yeah, well, my Google-Fu is definitely failing me. I've got a pretty solid image in my head, but I'm not finding anything like it. Sorry! :/
I would love a link, please! I'd like to have it, too, if possible.
Contributor
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I would like a copy as well, please. One of my players is running the path, and he'd likely find it useful.
Also, I hope this doesn't seem too self-indulgent, but when I ran this module, I made some tweaks and edits, such as gillman oracles for the Voltiaros, a special replacement for the cerebric fungus (an Aucturnite occultist), and various others. If anyone wants to hear about it or use my stat blocks, please say so. I'm happy to share :)
Those links don't work anymore, though. Do you have any other resources by which I might acquire it?