This may seem like a silly questions but after looking over the races in the core book I was left wondering why none of the core races have a +2 to the Wisdom Ability Score as a Racial Trait?
Is this for balance reasons? Would characters with a higher base wisdom need some complicated level adjustments? Please cure me of my ignorance!
Thanks!
Dwarves get a +2 wisdom.
Also, half-orcs and half-elves may choose to put their +2 in Wisdom.
Randy
Growing Up Gamers
Ah, yes, I stand corrected.
Or humans
Would a +2 Int, +2 Wis, -2 Dex be unbalanced or game breaking?
Would a +2 Int, +2 Wis, -2 Dex be unbalanced or game breaking?
no, i think not. Think to yourself--- or selves, what Classes would benefit from +2 int +2 wis none i know of have them as twin primary stats
Would a +2 Int, +2 Wis, -2 Dex be unbalanced or game breaking?
As racial modifier? No, probably not. A DEX-penalty hurts just about any class and you hardly ever need high Int AND Wis on the same char (barring Mystig Theurges, meaybe). If anything, I'd say it's probably a bit weaker overall than the racial modifiers of the core classes.
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Would a +2 Int, +2 Wis, -2 Dex be unbalanced or game breaking?A race is not balanced or unbalanced by it's ability score alone. You can create a race with huge ability bonuses and still be balanced if you include enough penalties.
So you will have to create a whole class to see if it's balanced or not. You can use this guide to help you out.
In short, that ability score will limit the additional traits you can offer in your class, though it alone is not enough to make it unbalanced.
P.S. And I think it's quite an interesting combo. A wizard only needs int. It doesn't really need any other stat.
The -2 dex hurts in the ac department though in the end, a wizard isn't really build to get hit anyway. A +2 wis will offer 1 additional will safe (something which isn't bad) and a bonus to interesting skills like perception, heal, profession.From all skills, I think I would only take conc over wis for a wizard.
Might be just me though.
Chsnglings from the Carion Crown AP are -2 con +2 Wis +2 Cha. Which would make an awesome cleric.
Would a +2 Int, +2 Wis, -2 Dex be unbalanced or game breaking?
Oh ya a Cleric Race :) +2 wisdom, +1 extra skill point per level.
Tell you what..
Come out with a -2 Str, +2 Int, +2 Cha race = And you can make a bard happy :)
Would a +2 Int, +2 Wis, -2 Dex be unbalanced or game breaking?Oh ya a Cleric Race :) +2 wisdom, +1 extra skill point per level.
Tell you what..
Come out with a -2 Str, +2 Int, +2 Cha race = And you can make a bard happy :)
Really I am trying to adapt the world of FFXII's Ivalice to Pathfinder d20 and I was asking to figure out the racial traits for a Nu Mou which is essentially a cleric race. I don't want to pigeon hole it too much though.
Created using Voodoomikes race builder a while back.
Bangaa
+2 str, -2 Int, +2 Wis (0 points)
Medium Sized
Normal Speed
-4 Penalty on sight-based perception checks (-1 point)
+4 bonus on hearing based perception checks (1 point)
Blind Combat (4 points)
Natural Attack (Bite: 1d3) (2 points)
Natural Armor bonus +1 (4 points)
Languages: Common, Bangaa, Bonus Languages: Draconic, Terran, Aquan, Undercommon, Seeq
Hume
+2 to any one Attribute
Medium Size
Normal Speed
+1 Skill point per class level
Languages: Common Bonus Languages: Any, except secret languages.
Moogle
-2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Int, +2 Cha (8 points)
Small Sized (0 points)
Slow Speed: 20 ft. (-4 points)
Fly Speed: 30 ft. (Average) (4 points)
Technology Adept: +2 Disable Device and Knowledge (Engineering) (2 points)
Languages: Common, Moogle, Bonus Languages: Any, except secret languages.
Nu'moe
-2 Str, +2 Int, +2 Wis (4 points)
Medium Sized
Normal Speed
+2 on caster level checks to overcome spell resistance (4 points)
+2 to Knowledge (Arcana) and Knowledge (Religion) (2 points)
Languages: Common, Nu'moe, Bonus Languages: Any, except secret languages.
Seeq
+2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Int (4 points)
Medium sized
Slow Speed: 20 ft. (-2 points)
...and steady (2 points)
Darkvision 60 ft. (2 points)
Hardy: +2 Fort saves (4 points)
Languages: Common, Seeq; Bonus Languages: Terran, Bangaa, Undercommon, Giant, Goblin
Viera
+2 Dex, +2 Wis, -2 Cha
Medium Sized
Fast Speed 40ft. (8 points)
Lowlight vision (1 point)
Keen Senses (1 point)
Languages: Common, Viera, Bonus Languages: Sylvan, Terran, Aquan, Auran, Ignan, Draconic
Created using Voodoomikes race builder a while back.
Bangaa
+2 str, -2 Int, +2 Wis (0 points)
Medium Sized
Normal Speed
-4 Penalty on sight-based perception checks (-1 point)
+4 bonus on hearing based perception checks (1 point)
Blind Combat (4 points)
Natural Attack (Bite: 1d3) (2 points)
Natural Armor bonus +1 (4 points)
Languages: Common, Bangaa, Bonus Languages: Draconic, Terran, Aquan, Undercommon, SeeqHume
+2 to any one Attribute
Medium Size
Normal Speed
+1 Skill point per class level
Languages: Common Bonus Languages: Any, except secret languages.Moogle
-2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Int, +2 Cha (8 points)
Small Sized (0 points)
Slow Speed: 20 ft. (-4 points)
Fly Speed: 30 ft. (Average) (4 points)
Technology Adept: +2 Disable Device and Knowledge (Engineering) (2 points)
Languages: Common, Moogle, Bonus Languages: Any, except secret languages.Nu'moe
-2 Str, +2 Int, +2 Wis (4 points)
Medium Sized
Normal Speed
+2 on caster level checks to overcome spell resistance (4 points)
+2 to Knowledge (Arcana) and Knowledge (Religion) (2 points)
Languages: Common, Nu'moe, Bonus Languages: Any, except secret languages.Seeq
+2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Int (4 points)
Medium sized
Slow Speed: 20 ft. (-2 points)
...and steady (2 points)
Darkvision 60 ft. (2 points)
Hardy: +2 Fort saves (4 points)
Languages: Common, Seeq; Bonus Languages: Terran, Bangaa, Undercommon, Giant, GoblinViera
+2 Dex, +2 Wis, -2 Cha
Medium Sized
Fast Speed 40ft. (8 points)
Lowlight vision (1 point)
Keen Senses (1 point)
Languages: Common, Viera, Bonus Languages: Sylvan, Terran, Aquan, Auran, Ignan, Draconic
Oooo, neat! These are good bases but there are some important elements missing. Thanks so much for reposting!
These are balanced against the core races. What important elements are missing?
Really I am trying to adapt the world of FFXII's Ivalice to Pathfinder d20 and I was asking to figure out the racial traits for a Nu Mou which is essentially a cleric race. I don't want to pigeon hole it too much though.Would a +2 Int, +2 Wis, -2 Dex be unbalanced or game breaking?Oh ya a Cleric Race :) +2 wisdom, +1 extra skill point per level.
Tell you what..
Come out with a -2 Str, +2 Int, +2 Cha race = And you can make a bard happy :)
If they don't want to be pigeonholed, they'll just have to stay away from the white magic on the license board! :P
These are balanced against the core races. What important elements are missing?
Well, lets see.
Bangaa - Bangaa are not unintelligent or particularly wise but are instead strong and gruff. I think +2 Constitution, +2 Strength, -2 Charisma would be better suited for a Bangaa.
Moogle - A Moogles aptitude for the arcane. Though their abilities with mechanics is played up in FF12, they are skilled magic users.
Nu Mou - These are small creatures, not medium. They are slow moving so I would put -2 into Dex and reduce base land speed to 20ft.
Seeq - Seeqs are agile but there is no bonus to Dex. They are not slow despite their appearance so their base land speed should be normal. And who said they can see in the dark?
Viera - Missing the Green Word and Misty Frenzy, both of these could be circumstantial I suppose but two major things that are common among all Viera.
Viera
+2 Dex, +2 Wis, -2 Cha
I'd argue that any race of bunny-eared, tall lingerie models would not be penalised in charisma. (Seriously, I think the Viera are so reclusive because they don't want others to see them running around in their unmentionables so much).
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Would a +2 Int, +2 Wis, -2 Dex be unbalanced or game breaking?
Paizo made a deliberate choice to have player races have 1 mental and 1 physical stats so every race can be good at something physical (rogue/ fighter/ ranger/ monk/ etc) and something mental.
So it's not necessarily a matter of game breaking as it is a game design thing, they don't want players to feel pigeonholed into a class or set of classes. Your example would be very difficult to make into anything other than a straight caster.
Non-player races vary from these standards.
Viera
+2 Dex, +2 Wis, -2 ChaI'd argue that any race of bunny-eared, tall lingerie models would not be penalised in charisma. (Seriously, I think the Viera are so reclusive because they don't want others to see them running around in their unmentionables so much).
Missed that, I would completely agree.
Would a +2 Int, +2 Wis, -2 Dex be unbalanced or game breaking?Paizo made a deliberate choice to have player races have 1 mental and 1 physical stats so every race can be good at something physical (rogue/ fighter/ ranger/ monk/ etc) and something mental.
So it's not necessarily a matter of game breaking as it is a game design thing, they don't want players to feel pigeonholed into a class or set of classes. Your example would be very difficult to make into anything other than a straight caster.
Non-player races vary from these standards.
Perhaps the Nu Mou should be a non-player (optional) race? I could live with that.
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Perhaps the Nu Mou should be a non-player (optional) race? I could live with that.Would a +2 Int, +2 Wis, -2 Dex be unbalanced or game breaking?Paizo made a deliberate choice to have player races have 1 mental and 1 physical stats so every race can be good at something physical (rogue/ fighter/ ranger/ monk/ etc) and something mental.
So it's not necessarily a matter of game breaking as it is a game design thing, they don't want players to feel pigeonholed into a class or set of classes. Your example would be very difficult to make into anything other than a straight caster.
Non-player races vary from these standards.
*Shrug*
If you were publishing it I would probably criticize it as a poor design choice because the designer has no control over how it gets used/ abused and GMs have to try and manage that. For a home game? You are the GM and you know what works best for your group.
Huh - I know absolutely nothing about this world, but I happpened to notice that someone over at www.gelatinousdudes.com is also running a FF12 game to do with Ivalice. If you're not the same person (which is entirely possible), you might want to send them a note to see how they've done things.
Read Voodoomikes race builder (on the forums) when it comes time to write your versions of the races.
The nu'moe were about 4 feet tall in the games, they are like a dwarf IMO.
The moogle gets a +2 int, +2 cha, that alone allows them to excel at any arcane magic, and some divine magic.
The bangaa have unrivaled senses and perceptive abilities. Not wise maybe (this is debatable), but I think it fits (+2 to str and Con would cost 4 more points, they would have to be rebalanced).
Seequ's are rotund pigs that waddle everywhere, it seems perfect to me. Who says they cannot see on the dark? Honestly, I needed to round off their abilities and that seemed like a perfect fit.
Viera: "Missing the green world" is roleplay. Mist frenzy is campaign specific while I made these for any game. It would be more of a world effect. And despite how beautiful the may be they are reclusive, unskilled in outside interaction, and distrustful of outsiders. That defines a charisma penalty. Physical appearances are only a small part of charisma. Also, not everyone would think bunny girls are beautiful, that is a matter of opinion.
All thous who think Bunny Girls should get + Cha = Say here
HERE !
even though it fits, giving a base race a fly speed is asking for trouble
Read Voodoomikes race builder (on the forums) when it comes time to write your versions of the races.
I will, no doubt, use this to balance my versions.
The nu'moe were about 4 feet tall in the games, they are like a dwarf IMO.
There is no official quote on Nu Mou height that I can find but considering how hunched and small they are I would say they are roughly the size of Gnomes. Debatable.
The moogle gets a +2 int, +2 cha, that alone allows them to excel at any arcane magic, and some divine magic.
I suppose that is fair but I am not sure I am comfortable with the drafted version. May have to tweak.
The bangaa have unrivaled senses and perceptive abilities. Not wise maybe (this is debatable), but I think it fits (+2 to str and Con would cost 4 more points, they would have to be rebalanced).
The Bangaa have small eyes which might mean bad vision. It does say they have strong senses of hearing and smell but a -4 to sight based with a plus +4 to sound based seems too out of whack considering Viera only get a plus two...and look at their ears. Maybe a -4 sight, +2 hearing, +2 smell based Perception checks? Also, you didn't address the -2 to INT, Bangaa are not unintelligent.
Seequ's are rotund pigs that waddle everywhere, it seems perfect to me. Who says they cannot see on the dark? Honestly, I needed to round off their abilities and that seemed like a perfect fit.
From Final Fantasy Tactics A2:
"Though one would not think it to look on them, seeq are remarkably quick and agile, making for formidable foes and valued allies. They are not, however, terribly bright, and their moral compass has lost all direction. They lust for gold, jewels, and the like, often adorning their bodies with such, whether ill-gotten or otherwise." - Description
Also, you fight some Seeq in FFXII and they are not slow moving.
Viera: "Missing the green world" is roleplay. Mist frenzy is campaign specific while I made these for any game. It would be more of a world effect. And despite how beautiful the may be they are reclusive, unskilled in outside interaction, and distrustful of outsiders. That defines a charisma penalty. Physical appearances are only a small part of charisma. Also, not everyone would think bunny girls are beautiful, that is a matter of opinion.
The 'Green Word' is a spell-like ability used by Viera to communicate with nature. Granted, Viera who leave the wood eventually loose this ability so perhaps it should be a feat? All Viera a sensitive to Mist, having not effect them in any capacity seems odd.
I agree with you on not granting Viera a CHA bonus. But a CHA penalty? That seems suited specifically for viera who stay isolated in their woodland home.
Green world would be a plot effect, as a PC Viera could not get it (They lose the ability if they leave the wood for too long). Like I said, there is no mist in pathfinder, so I did not include it. I was not building Ivalice or a Final Fantasy game (If I wanted to do that, I would play ZODIAC FFRPG), just adapting the races. To include the mist would be a great many rules beyond just the Veira (Although I think a confusion/rage effect would be close, you still need rules for the mist). The Viera who leave the forest and learn to get along with outsiders would increase their charisma modifier and add ranks to diplomacy.
I'm not sure why I gave the Bangaa a penalty to Int looking back... Also, they are described as being almost blind, with blindfolds playing a part in there fashions. To properly create the Bangaa they would probably need blindsense and a level adjustment.
Finally to the point of a fly speed being given to a player race, you have to balance it to the race. The moogles are small and have a strength pnalty, low combat damage. They make good arcane spellcasters which get flight fairly early anyways.
I have presented the races the way I would make them and why, that is all I can do.
Green world would be a plot effect, as a PC Viera could not get it (They lose the ability if they leave the wood for too long). Like I said, there is no mist in pathfinder, so I did not include it. I was not building Ivalice or a Final Fantasy game (If I wanted to do that, I would play ZODIAC FFRPG), just adapting the races. To include the mist would be a great many rules beyond just the Veira (Although I think a confusion/rage effect would be close, you still need rules for the mist). The Viera who leave the forest and learn to get along with outsiders would increase their charisma modifier and add ranks to diplomacy.
I'm not sure why I gave the Bangaa a penalty to Int looking back... Also, they are described as being almost blind, with blindfolds playing a part in there fashions. To properly create the Bangaa they would probably need blindsense and a level adjustment.
Finally to the point of a fly speed being given to a player race, you have to balance it to the race. The moogles are small and have a strength pnalty, low combat damage. They make good arcane spellcasters which get flight fairly early anyways.
I have presented the races the way I would make them and why, that is all I can do.
Like I said your work is good and, a bonus, its balanced. I am just being a bit picky considering I am trying to put together a setting for my players and they are tough critics. I'm just trying to look at it through their scrutinizing eyes.
One I have worked out my version, balanced as I can, I will post them along with their racial pages in the homebrew forum. Keep yours eyes peeled if you are interested.
Thanks for all the info. :)
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These are balanced against the core races. What important elements are missing?Well, lets see.
Bangaa - Bangaa are not unintelligent or particularly wise but are instead strong and gruff. I think +2 Constitution, +2 Strength, -2 Charisma would be better suited for a Bangaa.
Moogle - A Moogles aptitude for the arcane. Though their abilities with mechanics is played up in FF12, they are skilled magic users.
Nu Mou - These are small creatures, not medium. They are slow moving so I would put -2 into Dex and reduce base land speed to 20ft.
Seeq - Seeqs are agile but there is no bonus to Dex. They are not slow despite their appearance so their base land speed should be normal. And who said they can see in the dark?
Viera - Missing the Green Word and Misty Frenzy, both of these could be circumstantial I suppose but two major things that are common among all Viera.
Bangaa- having +2 str and +2 con and only -2 cha seems a bit much don't you think? In fact most of these seem like something I would roll my eyes at and cover my face if I read them as actual races in a supplement paizo put out. Why do you want to use other races so badly? The ones in the core book work really well, and as was mentioned before, dwarves get +2 wis, along with most races in the core if you want them to. Put your +2 wherever you want for half-orcs, humans, half-elves, totally balanced and no need to add other races that could unbalance things. Paizo knows what they are doing, just trust them till you have a handle on game mechanics. (I only think you may not have a solid enough handle on game mechanics to create your own races since you didn't know that dwarves got +2 wis. Definitely not trying to put you down, just saying making up your own rules is usually best left for once you have played for awhile and have decided that the rules as they stand are not good enough -and the rules work pretty well, so this probably won't happen.)
Bangaa- having +2 str and +2 con and only -2 cha seems a bit much don't you think? In fact most of these seem like something I would roll my eyes at and cover my face if I read them as actual races in a supplement paizo put out. Why do you want to use other races so badly? The ones in the core book work really well, and as was mentioned before, dwarves get +2 wis, along with most races in the core if you want them to. Put your +2 wherever you want for half-orcs, humans, half-elves, totally balanced and no need to add other races that could unbalance things. Paizo knows what they are doing, just trust them till you have a handle on game mechanics. (I only think you may not have a solid enough handle on game mechanics to create your own races since you didn't know that dwarves got +2 wis. Definitely not trying to put you down, just saying making up your own rules is usually best left for once you have played for awhile and have decided that the rules as they stand are not good enough -and the rules work pretty well, so this probably won't happen.)These are balanced against the core races. What important elements are missing?Well, lets see.
Bangaa - Bangaa are not unintelligent or particularly wise but are instead strong and gruff. I think +2 Constitution, +2 Strength, -2 Charisma would be better suited for a Bangaa.
Moogle - A Moogles aptitude for the arcane. Though their abilities with mechanics is played up in FF12, they are skilled magic users.
Nu Mou - These are small creatures, not medium. They are slow moving so I would put -2 into Dex and reduce base land speed to 20ft.
Seeq - Seeqs are agile but there is no bonus to Dex. They are not slow despite their appearance so their base land speed should be normal. And who said they can see in the dark?
Viera - Missing the Green Word and Misty Frenzy, both of these could be circumstantial I suppose but two major things that are common among all Viera.
You seem to be missing the point, Insideowt is creating a new campaign setting with specific races.