I was reading Treantmonk's guide to bards and it briefly mentioned that the archer bard would always be inferior to the rogue archer. This struck me as odd because I was under the impression that the best rogue would always be a melee rogue, due to sneak attack requiring the rogue to be stupid close (30 feet, unless you take the proper archetype) and that archer rogues don't get sneak attack because they cannot flank. Essentially this means that an archer rogue only is really good in the surprise round, and after that goes back to being a mediocre archer who is vastly inferior to a fighter or ranger archer.
I suppose you could make a good archer rogue if you had a party member with enough bluff ranks to feint at an opponent successfully each round, but that just doesn't seem sniperish.
So my overall question is: How would one go about building an archer rogue that could perform well without relying on another party member's feinting techniques?
Well, whatever grants you access to greater invisibility is your friend, since you can fire away and get sneak attack with many attacks.
I also had a scout sniper rogue to play in a game recently, but I didn't get to play it (the party didn't kill my current character, the wimps. ;-P)) You only get to make a sneak attack shot once per round that way, but it's hard to deny you that. And you're highly mobile.
And improved invisibility can still let you fire away.
I might try that concept again some day.
Well, whatever grants you access to greater invisibility is your friend, since you can fire away and get sneak attack with many attacks.
I also had a scout sniper rogue to play in a game recently, but I didn't get to play it (the party didn't kill my current character, the wimps. ;-P)) You only get to make a sneak attack shot once per round that way, but it's hard to deny you that. And you're highly mobile.
And improved invisibility can still let you fire away.
I might try that concept again some day.
I suppose that works, I remember (perhaps incorrectly) in 3.5 rogues got sneak attack from archery without needing to flank, what confuses me is what you described doesn't sound that much better than the archer bard, while Treantmonk seemed to think they were superior by several orders of magnitude, and he usually knows what he's talking about.
I suppose that works, I remember (perhaps incorrectly) in 3.5 rogues got sneak attack from archery without needing to flank
Actually, they can't get sneak attack from flanking, because they don't threaten.
So they need to keep the victim on his toes. Keep him flat-footed/without his dex bonus to AC (let's just call it "flat-footed" for short, even though there are several things here).
Winning init and shooting him before he can act is one possibility, being invisible the whole time (with greater invisibility) another.
Beyond that, you usually need to spend your move action setting things up.
Actually, they can't get sneak attack from flanking, because they don't threaten.So they need to keep the victim on his toes. Keep him flat-footed/without his dex bonus to AC (let's just call it "flat-footed" for short, even though there are several things here).
Winning init and shooting him before he can act is one possibility, being invisible the whole time (with greater invisibility) another.
Beyond that, you usually need to spend your move action setting things up.
Yeah, I went back to my old 3.5 PHB and re-read it, my old DM either misunderstood the rule, or had weird homebrew on it.
Also, spending the move action requires that the archer has cover, and I believe that really makes him less than optimal (granted still better than the bard, that +(1/2 level +1)d6 damage is really nice) But IMO I think a ranger or fighter does archery better than any rogue, and a melee rogue will out damage the archer rogue (with flanking help) any day of the week.
Or instead of cover, has some form of concealment such as darkness etc.
So my overall question is: How would one go about building an archer rogue that could perform well without relying on another party member's feinting techniques?
I don't think other party members can feint for you.
Feint: You can use Bluff to feint in combat, causing your opponent to be denied his Dexterity bonus to his AC against your next attack.
-Surprise round: You can get off one good shot during the surprise round. Use stealth, leave the clanking tank behind.
-Going first: High dex, improved initiative, reactionary, and anything else you can pile on to increase your initiative let you go first. Your opponent is flat footed until he acts, and unlike the surprise round you can get a full attack.
Also, spending the move action requires that the archer has cover
Or the right archetype. That's why I suggested a scout sniper rogue. The Skirmisher ability (which replaces improved uncanny dodge) lets you do one attack as a sneak attack after moving 10+ feet in the round. Sniper extends the range at which you can sneak attack people.
I don't think other party members can feint for you.
They can with Greater Feint. That feat makes the target lose his Dexterity bonus until the beginning of the feinter's next turn.
I'm actually playing an archer rogue in Curse of the Crimson Throne right now and I haven't had trouble in combat. When I can, I go for the sneak attack, which is fairly often. If I can't, I still deal a healthy amount of damage and can keep a safe distance away. If there's a problem with my build, I haven't found it yet.