Question, if your are using a Shield for Bashing and you dont have the TWF feat, would you take the -6/-10 negative for attacking with two weapons???...if so then answer me this, why would anyone use the Sword & Shield option of the Ranger found on the APH???
You'd take either the -6/-10 or -4/-8 depending on whether you had a light or a heavy shield. Until you got shield mastery when it would be -6/+0 or -4/+0. But the point of that style isn't necessarily shield bashing - it's to be a ranger with a shield and the related AC.
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I really don't have a problem with the creation of a feat, just illustrating why it wouldn't be a gamekiller to add it to quick draw. As for drawing 8 weapons and making 8 attacks, this falls under the same idea as talking as a free action. It can be done, the character is not going to quote a chapter from 'War and Peace' with that free action, neither should they be able to draw and sheathe all that and attack. Even the rules quote common sense in certain circumstances.
No this does NOT mimic reality all that well. Neither does launching fireballs from your hands, teleporting, flying, riding a mount at a possible walking speed of 900 ft/Min, killing 6 people with a single swordstroke, etc.
Not seeing where the training issue is, either. The same training to sheathe a weapon would also go with using the aforementioned chain or string on the weapon idea. Getting around that thing while fighting with it or getting the weapon back to your hand would take some extra effort, but noone her so much as suggested a feat for that. Interesting how easily acceptable one is rather than the other....
In any case, this seems a matter far more of opinion than any one view, as I have seen on this post. Solved my own problem a long time ago, now just looking at options. Think I pretty much got what I need from here.
Thank for the ideas, thoughts and the reminder not to ask about any options that are not absolute and incontrovertably written in stone tablets (rulebooks). Just seems to start arguments.
Since this discussion is now severely off-topic let's go back to two-weapon fighting questions. Anyone?
P.S. It doesn't say that any character can use the bathroom either. Does that mean they can't? :)
Dreddwulf, I believe others are correct; you can't sheathe your weapon(s) as a free action, not even with Quick Draw. I seem to recall that this was even clarified in some issue of Dragon or FAQ? Anyway, the baseline for most RPGs is that RAW dictates what you can or cannot do; if the rules are silent or hard to interpret, it's a judgement call for your GM. I know many RPGs these days encourage cinematic style -- and saying "yes" to whatever your group thinks is cool -- but that is what you should be discussing with them; there's no point in presseing the matter on a messageboard just because everyone disagrees with your opinion. Discussing the rules and using quotes to support your view is one thing, arguing because you think the rules are "wrong" or "lacking" is another beast altogether.
And speaking of "realism"... if you ask me, there are no RPGs that simulate reality accurately -- not even Rolemaster, Runequest or Harnmaster. What fantasy RPGs strive to do is emulate "heroic" reality, in which laws of physics are determined by the setting and the game rules. Some games may require more suspension of disbelief than others, and often certain game mechanics exist just for the sake of balance. And what may seem "logical" (in terms of realism and/or fiction) to you, may not seem the same to me. Again, this is something your group and your GM have to discuss, i.e. what you think is the balance between "believable" and "cool".
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Question, if your are using a Shield for Bashing and you dont have the TWF feat, would you take the -6/-10 negative for attacking with two weapons???...if so then answer me this, why would anyone use the Sword & Shield option of the Ranger found on the APH???You'd take either the -6/-10 or -4/-8 depending on whether you had a light or a heavy shield. Until you got shield mastery when it would be -6/+0 or -4/+0. But the point of that style isn't necessarily shield bashing - it's to be a ranger with a shield and the related AC.
And if you take Bashing Finish at level 10 you get a free attack every time you crit with your main hand weapon. As has been pointed out, if you don't take TWF, this is not a great "optimization" build and you should probably just attack with your main hand weapon only. But if you want to use a shield, this can add a "little extra" to your damage dealing capabilities.
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I have always weighed my decisions in regards to these sorts of questions, as Fluff (Character flavor) vs Expoit. In this circumstance the rules read as written are, sheathing a weapon is a move action that provokes.
If my player wishes to use say Iaijutsu the art of sword drawing and so they take Quick Draw as a feat for Fluff. Then I would say this special circumstance
"when using Iaijutsu you may draw and sheathe your chosen weapon as a free action also"
However if you attempted to say utilize two weapon fighting by having a two handed weapon, striking X amount of times, sheathing your weapon then drawing your off hand and making a final strike. I'd say no on so many accounts. At the end of the day it's not the rules that dictate how your table is run, it is you as a GM. Do you feel that in your specific example of it's use that it will further the game for the players or will it hamper it.
I do apologize in advance I don't mean any ill will, but the argument earlier in this post boils down to one thing. Rules are there as a guide-line however (and I'm sure we have all experianced this) there are players that will constantly question and pry for reasons and rationale behind every decision that you as a DM makes. Realism is limited in this game for many reasons, it is true that a man has reached fallen from a plane, hit terminal velocity, struck a horizontal beam and survived with only a broken arm. The human body and those people that spend their lives mastering it can achieve amazing things, however life doesn't have a fair and balanced system so everyone is balanced.
Do what feels right dude, and at the end of the day you are the DM. If it doesn't work out just say to the player, "I feel this ability has become exploitive and if it's continued use (or over-use) is seen then the rule will change"
Completely agree with Samuel.
I don't think creating a feat like "quick sheathing" would be game breaking, of course, and I think it might add flavor to some characters (I can picture perfectly a samurai doing it). It might be the same "quick draw" to allow you to do it, if your GM agrees.
It can't be a simulation of reality, neither it would be fun if it was, it's a fantasy role play game!
Yo
This was an old thread.
Also, there's some misinformation about Two-Weapon Fighting. You only take Two-Weapon Fighting penalties when using the Two-Weapon Fighting combat style to gain an extra attack with your off-hand.
If you have BAB +6/+1 you can hit once with your sword (at +6), and bash once with your shield (at +1), and not take TWF penalties.
If you hit with your sword twice (at +6/+1), then bash with your shield (at +6), you've gotten an extra attack and all of those attacks must take the appropriate TWF penalties.
See this FAQ for details.