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Appologies if this is in the wrong sub-forum, I am still new to the Pathfinder forums
Anyway, I love Pathfinder, and I am currently running a desert-themed campaign in Katapesh (but playing a bit fast-and-loose with the campaign setting, so that I have enough wiggle room to play with.)
Anyway, this is my longest campaign I've ever run by far (I'm just coming into GMing I think) and I'm happy about how it's coming along, but I have problems with magical items. I'm following the book about HOW MUCH to give out in magical items, but I don't know WHAT to give. I've tried to give them a variety of stuff, money, mundane items, scrolls, potions, wands, and magical arms and armor, and I'm kinda hitting a wall. I don't know what to give them next, when to give them stuff to replace their old stuff. Anyway, they just leveled to level seven, and here's what they've got so far (this is all off the top of my head, so I may Misremember a few things.):
1/2 Orc ranger:
+1/+1 Orc Double axe
+1 Breast Plate
+1 Amulet of natural armor
Unique item: Cloak of continual Endure Elements
Mwk Composite Longbow
Gnomish Druid
+1 Dragonhide Breastplate (Small-Sized)
+1 Large wooden Shield (Small-sized)
Tiara of +2 Wisdom
Unique item: Bracers, cast flame blade (lvl 3) 1/day.
Wand of cure light wounds (which they have yet to use . . . 50 charges)
1/2 elf Rogue/Shadowdancer
+1 Light mace
+1 Elven curved blade (The party illusionist enchanted this)
MWK Mithral chain shirt
Boots of Elvenkind
Gloves of +2 Dex
Elven Illusionist
Mwk Composite Longbow
Unique Item: Robes that grant +2 armor and +3 to Spellcraft
Pearl of Power (2nd lvl spell)
Handy Haversack
+1 Amulet of natural armor
Hat of Disguise (he created this himself.)
In addition, the party has several scrolls, a fair amount of cash, and our Druid has made enough healing potions to drown a horse. I'm just wondering what to give them next. They aren't too powerful I don't think, I mean they still have challenging fights against tough opponents, but I don't know where to go from here. Do I give them upgraded armor I guess? Can you see anything I'm missing?
Well you are missing a 'Kickin' weapon. The main fighter could use a weapon that's generally better than everyone else's.
Maybe plant a legend of some long lost magical weapon of devastating power only to find it's a +3 club of shock and thundering. (a cool weapon, but people will be like... a club??)
Or a cool item for the ranger (more aimed at his character) is a +2/+2 orc axe of throwing and returning with the special ability that it can still TWF fight when thrown.
At this level you want to give some 'custom' things out, be adventurous try it out. If you don't want to hand out too much individual power, try "party items" like a flying carpet, or a crab apparatus that anyone (and possibly everyone) will use.
Bag of holding is a fan favorite.
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Well you are missing a 'Kickin' weapon. The main fighter could use a weapon that's generally better than everyone else's.
Maybe plant a legend of some long lost magical weapon of devastating power only to find it's a +3 club of shock and thundering. (a cool weapon, but people will be like... a club??)
Or a cool item for the ranger (more aimed at his character) is a +2/+2 orc axe of throwing and returning with the special ability that it can still TWF fight when thrown.
At this level you want to give some 'custom' things out, be adventurous try it out. If you don't want to hand out too much individual power, try "party items" like a flying carpet, or a crab apparatus that anyone (and possibly everyone) will use.
Bag of holding is a fan favorite.
While I do want to make sure everyone has some cool magic toy they like (and the druid REALLY likes her gauntlets of flame blade), there is a slight issue with your plan. Not that it's a bad plan, I do want to make sure the fighter has a cool weapon, but the basic distribution of wealth curve . . . thing, says that at level seven, PCs are supposed to get abouts 7,500 GP worth of stuff for the entire level. And a +2/+2 Orcish double axe is around 16,000 GP. Now, it's not like I adhere to the wealth curve like a hawk and can't go over or under, I blur the line, but 16,000 is over double the normal cost for that level . . . and that's not counting the throwing and returning qualities. Heck, a single +2 weapon is 8000, which is more than they are supposed to get for the entire level (per person.)
You won't always be able to follow the suggested wealth. If the player get over it by too much just hold back until you feel they are where they should be.
How much wealth they should have really depends on how you run your games. James Jacobs gives double what is on the chart. I am normally pretty stingy at low levels, but the players end up with about 20-30% more than what is on the chart by the end of any campaign. I don't do it on purpose. It just ends up that way, but I guess it is just the way I run games.
You could also focus on giving out coin, gems, art, etc for a little while. Let them build up a nest egg and then when they have some coin send them in to the city of Ketapesh for some shopping.
There is a nice magic item generator made by one of the folks on these forums. You can download that and run it for the city a couple of times to come up with some shopping ideas for the group. Have them haggle and barter in town. (If you have the Ketapesh city book or Legacy of Fire AP 21 there is good info in there as well.)
Here is the LINK to the random item generator.
Starve your PCs until near the end of level 8, and then give out a bunch of goodies to compensate.
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Starve your PCs until near the end of level 8, and then give out a bunch of goodies to compensate.
Good suggestions one and all, but I'm kind of in a corner, so (at the risk of any of my players finding and reading this) here is my issue.
We are going to be shortly wrapping up for the summer (this is a college town, one of my players will be gone for the summer) so I'm having a big hoopla happen soon (end of a story arc kinda thing, cliffhanger preview of the next story arc). Things will happen in very short succession, and the PCs aren't going to have a lot of downtime or spend much time at all in a town, so enchanting and buying are kind of . . . limited.
As for the "starve them then give them a bunch of rewards" strategy . . . I suppose I could . . . but I have planned the big whopla to end at the end of level eight, so giving them a bunch of new shiny toys right before they all leave for the summer seems like kinda a dick move.
And, as I said above, I know that I don't have to take the magic item table as law, I have fudged it more than a few times, but I always fixed it in the end. The Ranger and Druid both got their armors before they reached level 2. To compensate, level 2 to 3 had fairly little treasure, and by level 4, they were back on track. The point I was making in the above is that a +2/+2 Orc double axe is WAAAAAAAY outside what a lvl 7 character should be getting (at least according to the book.) I suppose I could give him something by budgeting for the group collectively, but then all the other PCs feel left out.
I'm just looking for what players would recommend, and for what DMs advise giving out. Players, what would you want (within reason) and DMs, what would you give out to round out their current magical repitoire?
Ask them. I see no reason why players shouldn´t be able to influence a story and if you have trouble determining the goods by yourself, get their help.
Personally I am a big fan of customized magic items. Playing for as long as i have finding a +2 flaming longsword just isn't all that interesting anymore unless there is some lore reason or character reason as to why THIS sword would be anything other than some place holder for the next sword i find. Look at how your PCs play and tailor something "special" to them. You say your going on a long break and want to do a big finisher and leave them wanting more with a cliffhanger, no reason you cant entice them with some magic items as well. Finish off the arc by giving them something neat and interesting and unique they are gonna think about during the time off and be excited to come back and use.
Starve your PCs until near the end of level 8, and then give out a bunch of goodies to compensate.Good suggestions one and all, but I'm kind of in a corner, so (at the risk of any of my players finding and reading this) here is my issue.
We are going to be shortly wrapping up for the summer (this is a college town, one of my players will be gone for the summer) so I'm having a big hoopla happen soon (end of a story arc kinda thing, cliffhanger preview of the next story arc). Things will happen in very short succession, and the PCs aren't going to have a lot of downtime or spend much time at all in a town, so enchanting and buying are kind of . . . limited.
As for the "starve them then give them a bunch of rewards" strategy . . . I suppose I could . . . but I have planned the big whopla to end at the end of level eight, so giving them a bunch of new shiny toys right before they all leave for the summer seems like kinda a dick move.
And, as I said above, I know that I don't have to take the magic item table as law, I have fudged it more than a few times, but I always fixed it in the end. The Ranger and Druid both got their armors before they reached level 2. To compensate, level 2 to 3 had fairly little treasure, and by level 4, they were back on track. The point I was making in the above is that a +2/+2 Orc double axe is WAAAAAAAY outside what a lvl 7 character should be getting (at least according to the book.) I suppose I could give him something by budgeting for the group collectively, but then all the other PCs feel left out.
I'm just looking for what players would recommend, and for what DMs advise giving out. Players, what would you want (within reason) and DMs, what would you give out to round out their current magical repitoire?
Each side of the orc double axe is enchanted separately. It could be a +2/+1
Well, I do not really care a lot about what I want to "give to them" but reather what i want my villains to have in order to make them tough challenges. This gear will usually end up in the PCs hands.
Only thing I really think about are "quest" items (like the aforementioned club).
At a first glance, I would say that the "standard" items are "missing", i.e. Headbands of / Belt of +2 to attribute and, of course, Cloak of 1+/+2 to Saves.
Unless you have 25 point buys I would introduce some of them soon or else your players are likely to have difficulties against the monsters they are supposed to beat.
The thing with character wealth per level is, that this is only a guideline and not all items are really "worth" their gp value.
THe party is missing cloaks of resistance. In a few levels that will be very telling if they're making saving throws.
IMO: The wealth table is for newcomer PCs, and triage if something looks horribly over/underpowered during play. If the only sign that your players have "too much" or "too little" is that their total wealth doesn't match a number on a table, you don't have a real problem, GM wise.
Give what feels right, run the game, correct as needed. Err on the side of too-little, because it is easier to correct a deficiency than to seize/break a too-generous amount.
If you want less or more treasure, you can try that out and chances are it won't cause a TPK outright. Problems will become visible over several encounters, and that actually gives you a chance to see what the players want — and for them to work up an appetite for the correction when you finally drop it.
As for what to give: nothing pleases players more than a moderately powerful item tailor made to their character's style, that isn't in any book and is tied to the campaign plot somehow (even if it is just seized from a namer NPC). Use this as a chance to design something reasonable — a small augmentation to a class ability or a synergy with a feat. This helps the item feel special without needing to be a +5 sword of legend or whatever.
If this game ends at level 8, then who cares about balance? Give them some awesome, tailor-made gear that they can find in classical ways. I can see you already gave them all unique items. Maybe have those items awaken to new and more powerful abilities.
I see the last two PCs don't have unique items. Maybe give them unique items and then give the first two PCs just some quick and simple magic items.
Something like having the PCs find a bunch of broken shards of iron that are magically enchanted after a blue dragon breathed on them-- with spellcraft checks, the enchantment can be transferred to the double-axe, giving one head shocking. As a full round action, the dragon's essence can be harnessed allowing the ranger to cast lightning bolt 1/day at CL 7th.
An elven curved blade that becomes freezing cold when in darkness that turns out to allow the wielder to turn invisible as a swift action 3/day, and when on the user's hip, is completely invisible.
A dusty wooden shield painted over with a beautiful desert landscape image that can harness a summon nature's ally spell and transform the creature summoned into sand.
A glass eye that allows the illusionist to for however many rounds or times per day continue to concentrate on an illusion while casting another spell. It's the glass eye of a famous one-eyed magician who performed such elaborate and complex magical tricks that no one in the world could figure out how they were done.
If your game is going to end, no reason to not try to up the ante and give them some really powerful and memorable and flavorful items. I bet you could think up a lot better ones for your party since you know them, but I just kind of went on a roll.
I know I'm running a completely different system, but I've decided to introduce the idea of evolving items. In particular I'm going to reward the Swordmage for maintaining his bond by gradually increasing it's power for him. I just gave it it's first +1 (overdue at level 4 I know, but the first part of the adventure was purposely poor. ) after a tough close quarters brawl with Kruthik in which he nearly went down twice.
It let's me give the next best item without the whole "Good, I picked up the +2, now to pawn the +1" thing coming up for every upgrade.
My Campaign does involve going near sites of power, so that add a little more to the idea. I'm also essentially upgrading everyone with a free teamwork feat for completing the first arc and saving the mystic pillar.
While I still like the "awesome magic weapon of legend" being a club idea.
You really shouldn't tailor the whole campaign to evening out the treasure for each person.
Let the PCs do that. Finding the +2/+2 throwing returning orc axe of king rothnag the rank, is an end of an arc item.
The could pocket a bunch of scrub and a few gems and a moldy spell book with ketchup stains and a half eaten sandwich some hobgblin left behind.
What are the PCs going to do with it?
Sell it?
Keep it in the party, and say ok flunkie, you don't get anything for a while.
Honestly, if you don't get a cool weapon like that at 7th level, its going to be a "stat" block/place holder by 10th level.
Not everyone is going to get an equal, balanced treasure load, unless the adventuring group decides to do that on their own.
IF the sold the 18,000 gold piece super weapon and got 9k for it, they could all get a ring of protection +1 for their efforts! Yay. Great Fun.
It'd still leave it up to them.
Bilbo and Gandalf got Glamdring and Sting, Thorin got Orcrist. The rest of the dwarves were lucky if they got anything at all.
When the troop arrived at Rivendell they COULD have sold the weapons or traded them to the elves there, to divvy up the loot more evenly.
But that would really have been silly.
However I could see that happening in an adventure group and seems like a 'bilbo thing to do', as the swords were originally property of the elves to begin with, so returning the blades to them wouldn't have been an odd move altogether. The elves, in turn could have bestowed gifts on the party in equal amounts (not everything has to be "sold")
In your own version, the party could choose to return the +2/+2 Orc axe of the Rank King to his rightful heir and/or descendant in hopes of bartering some goods in return, or they could say, to heck with that, we're keeping it, as apparently gandalf and bilbo did.
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Well, I've taken some advice, and put a few suggestions together. In the next session, they will eventually go up against a group of evil cultists, including an evil mage, who has made some unique items for them to pilfer. I'm not great at coming up with unique items, so I just made a few items that are based off of one thing, but have a second thing going, giving them a bit of flavor.
1)Belt of the indomitable hero (or villain)
Belt which grants +2 endurance and the user can cast Heroism 1/day
2)Gnomish Emissary armor
+2 Dragonhide breastplate (small class), with a +3 bonus to Diplomacy
(Stolen from one of the gnome villages in Katapesh)
3)Cloak of the narrow escape
+2 to all saves, Meld into stone 1/day
4)Ring of arcane superiority
Ring of counterspells, also gives +3 bonus to spellcraft checks