Winging Fame Points

[Sgmendez]

So I have a quick question who has run Council of Thieves.

My players are a little "different" in that they don't tend to think to heroically much unless guided. So when there are side quests and such during the adventure path that offer fame points they won't really think of it unless specifically told to do it.

So the question is, would it be alright to award fame points for other events that are not necessarily "heroic".

An example of this is one of my players has designed his character to be an opera singer and actor, and seeing as how Cheliax is a big fan of opera, whenever he uses his spare time to go and perform in different operas and plays could I offer the party a fame point due to that PC growing more popular? This is of course in place of doing something else so they never exceed the normal amount of fame they would get.

My big worry is that if I don't do something to offer some "extra" fame every here and there that they won't get enough by the end of the adventure path even though they do great during the main story.

[Old Drake]

You certainly can distribute extra fame, but I don't think you should be too liberal with it. Fame in the adventure is given for helping people, not merely being well known. The Mayor is universally known in Westcrown, but would have very little fame. It's basically a measurement of how much the people of the city trust the party to take care of problems and restore order.
If they hear about problems and don't go out correcting them, people will know that they can't trust the group. That's fine; you can complete the AP without problem. It will end in Martial Law, but your group is unlikely to mind that outcome. They are after all not heroes.

The idea of a dice role deciding the ending is rather questionable, lets say. The best ending should only be there if the party is heroic and goes out of their way to help people. Likewise the worst should only happen if they go out of their way to anger the population. The normal campaign should result either in Martial Law or Self-Governance; if the players don't go out and fight injustice and banditry, then Martial Law results. You can still play up how they are icons and popular figures in those difficult times (say like Hollywood stars), but have little political influence and the economy still declines. And if you end the campaign there, you could also play up how they are one of the few things from before the troubles that still have a place in the new Westcrown. Some of their contacts among the 'Children of Westcrowwn' will be very disappointed in what happened and how the city changes, but the general population accepts the changes in return for stability and security.

If you foresee some particular problems, I'll be glad to help. But in general fame points shouldn't be important unless the characters really care for the city - in which case they come pretty much automatically.

[Are]

If the party goes through the main storyline, they should get the majority of the available fame points, even if they don't wish to pursue side quests that could give them more.

You can naturally hand out fame points whenever they go out of their way to help someone, even if it isn't part of the adventure, but I don't think you should do so without a real reason. As far as the opera singer goes, maybe you could give them a fame point at the first DC 20+ performance, and each 25+ performance, rather than every time he performs?

Getting the maximum amount of fame points should be difficult, since that pretty much means the PCs get a landslide "we rule the city" victory. Most campaigns should end up with the slightly lesser "martial law" or "self-governance" victories, as Old Drake mentioned.

[Sgmendez]

OK, being called fame points made me think that it was that they were becoming known to the people of Westcrown, not that it was specific to helping them.

My problem is that they don't go looking for the side quests. If I was to tell them they would more than likely do it but I don't really like to guide them by the nose. Because if I do it doesn't feel like I am giving them any freedom.

Now during the main story they act heroically and help everyone to the best of there abilities, but they only seem to do this when they are told they can. They are not the most creative or think ahead about things kind of people.

Now that is what I was going to do. Award them fame only when they do something big, like perform a really really great performance, 25+ check kind of thing. And this would only be once or twice.

My party consists of a Tiefling Bard, Gnome Alchemist, Half-Elf Rogue, and Elf Barbarian/Druid. The rogue and barbarian/druid are more than likely to do some of the fighting side quests. But the alchemist and bard are not really up for combat, especially since the bard is lawful and a kind of worshiper of Asmodeus. But you know I just had an idea that would work to get each of them doing something.

Thanks for the help and inspiration guys.

[Deidre Tiriel]

My players are all actors and have a small theater, in which they put on plays. I have never given them fame points for these plays. They have earned money, however.

Fame points are from being capable and fair as future leaders.

Use the children of westcrown to give them side quests. They are never going to hear about Whitechin the goblin unless you tell them about it somehow.

They won't go investigating anything if you don't tell them about it. They won't help people who need helping unless you make the people seem sympathetic.

In some cases, such as finding the owners of stolen jewelry (end of BoE) or not killing hellknights (mid-BoE), they won't necessarily know to go out of their way. But make sure they realize what they are getting the fame point for.

Give them an actual fame point card for each one they earn. This way they see a trend in when they get one.

Don't give fame points for an opera singer. Give him gold or a boon of some sort (discount on a purchase 'cause the merchant's a fan)

[Old Drake]

Well, I would also recommend that you talk to the players. Tell them that they are in a city and can do whatever they want; that the scripted plot of the adventure is very accommodating and actually expects them to do their own things most of the time. I know some players who are afraid to do certain things because they don't want to anger the DM by forcing the story off plot. That might at least partially be a problem - and honestly in many pre-written adventures it is. So make sure they know they should do it.

As for the bard of Asmodeus; let the player read the information about Asmodeus again. And make it clear to him that as Lawful follower of Asmodeus he should go out of his way to see that lawbreakers are brought to justice. So hunting thieves or other criminals is something both his faith and alignment supports, even demands.

You should make certain to mention specifically that they can follow up on rumors they hear or go out and do their own thing; that they don't need to but that they can. Depending on how far you're willing to go in planning ahead, you might also want to warn them that certain rumors they hear may lead them into danger they aren't yet prepared to handle.

[Sgmendez]

I think I have resolved the issue but just to clarify. It wasn't that they didn't know that they could do things it is more that they just don't do it unless I pretty much lead them. They are all kind of "shy" roleplayers and don't really like to take the initiative for things like that. That and you could say that they are used to video games, which doesn't help, because when they get freedom they usually just say they wait till the next part of the story happens instead of doing things like this.

But as I said I think I have figured out a solution and it should all be fine and work out.