@Kerobelis:
-Yeah, 150<<<<<900, but if you don't have access to the Wealthy Parents trait (don't remember what book its in) or you need a reason to be at the funeral, its not bad. I have no objections to 150 free gold.
-The Harrow stuff is optional, but I think its definitely worth it. I'm playing in a Curse of the Crimson Throne game and the Harrow in that one is fun.
I don't know what exactly the designers were thinking but a number of people (myself included) think that the Wealthy Trait is ridiculously high in benefit and don't allow it in character generation.
+150 gp for the "On the Payroll" trait is far more reasonable in my mind. Of course, it is a little lower than one of the Serpent's Skull traits so maybe you do have a point.
That's a good point too.
I guess that depends entirely upon the kind of campaign that you play in. After around level 3 or so, in any campaign that keeps up with the player wealth tables, the initial boost to starting gold becomes a non-factor, whereas the bonuses from other traits are always there. So while it is a bit powerful at starting levels, it soon becomes a worthless trait so I've never seen an issue with it myself.I don't know what exactly the designers were thinking but a number of people (myself included) think that the Wealthy Trait is ridiculously high in benefit and don't allow it in character generation.
+150 gp for the "On the Payroll" trait is far more reasonable in my mind. Of course, it is a little lower than one of the Serpent's Skull traits so maybe you do have a point.
Agreed. 150 gps is nothing. 900 gp gives the party a cure light wounds wand to start, a wizard a few high level scrolls, a melee character gets a master work weapon, and/or slightly better armor. By level 5, this bonus is negliable. I think it is fine @ 900 gps. A nice boost for those first few levels or to help flush out a character concept (i.e. wealthy parents....)
I was thinking maybe it was suppose to be 150gp and some additional very minor benefit.
I was thinking maybe it was suppose to be 150gp and some additional very minor benefit.
My (perhaps unrealistic) hope is that these things will continue to scale and have impact in the campaign beyond what they seem to at level 1. The original pitch for AP#34 before they refreshed it said "an all-new trait system designed to bring characters into the campaign like never before" - but what we've seen in the PG certainly doesn't seem any different from what we had in LoF.
So my hope is that every book or so, you get new benefits from these traits. Like the "subject of study" trait (the one that gives a weak version of favored enemey) later gives, say, a bonus to saving throws against that particular type of creature. So I could then see the "on the payroll" trait giving continuous payouts throughout the AP, keeping that particular character always slightly above WBL. That would be neat.
After reading the Players guide I have a few questions:
Is there a typo or something missing for the "On the Payroll" trait. You only gain an extra +150 gps? Wealthy parents gives +900 gps. It just seems so low.
Harrow Points / cards of fate
I love the idea of them flavor wise, but I hate action points (which it seems these are, or a stylistic version of them). How essential are these to the adventure? Or is there guidelines on alternative uses for them? Perhaps I am missing something as I have no idea what plot fate cards do and my comparison to action points may be far off base?
Aside from all that, I love the Slaanesh color scheme!
I think that trait is there more for a story reason, than to give a mechanical benefit, but I do see your point. If I run this one I will have to make it comparable to the 900gp trait in some way.
The original pitch for AP#34 before they refreshed it said "an all-new trait system designed to bring characters into the campaign like never before" - but what we've seen in the PG certainly doesn't seem any different from what we had in LoF.
/agree
I was also hoping to see some revolutionary new fun with traits. IMO, the traits in the CC Player's Guide are rather blah.
The original pitch for AP#34 before they refreshed it said "an all-new trait system designed to bring characters into the campaign like never before" - but what we've seen in the PG certainly doesn't seem any different from what we had in LoF.
/agree
I was also hoping to see some revolutionary new fun with traits. IMO, the traits in the CC Player's Guide are rather blah.
The +2 to initiative is really, really good. I'm not seeing myself passing that on up.
Creative Director
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I don't know what exactly the designers were thinking but a number of people (myself included) think that the Wealthy Trait is ridiculously high in benefit and don't allow it in character generation.
+150 gp for the "On the Payroll" trait is far more reasonable in my mind. Of course, it is a little lower than one of the Serpent's Skull traits so maybe you do have a point.
It's not a typo. Note that you can take "Rich Parents" and "On the Payroll" as your traits and start with 1,050 gp if you want.
Not all traits are necessarily created equal. Some are better than others. "Rich Parents" already gives out a LOT of gold, so having other non-social traits give out gold is scary, and as a result, "On the Payroll" gives out lots less gold.
Remember also that you can't have more than one trait of a specific category, so if you want to be richer than normal but there's a different Social trait that you REALLY want, you can take "On the Payroll" to get a lesser boost since you didn't want to take "Rich Parents."
As for the "new trait system" we originally hoped to include... that sort of mutated into the Harrow card mechanic.
Sometimes we change our minds, in other words. Which is why we're hesitant to announce things TOO far in advance.
The +2 to initiative is really, really good. I'm not seeing myself passing that on up.The original pitch for AP#34 before they refreshed it said "an all-new trait system designed to bring characters into the campaign like never before" - but what we've seen in the PG certainly doesn't seem any different from what we had in LoF.
/agree
I was also hoping to see some revolutionary new fun with traits. IMO, the traits in the CC Player's Guide are rather blah.
What I meant by them being "blah", is that I thought they could have been more flavorful. I also hoped to see a new mechanic, and I didn't.
As far as the metagaming and min/maxing goes - by all means, choose the trait with the best bonus regardless if it fits your character concept or not. Heck, rewrite your character concept to get the traits you need. At the end of the day, as long as you're having fun, you're doing it right.
As for the "new trait system" we originally hoped to include... that sort of mutated into the Harrow card mechanic.
Sometimes we change our minds, in other words. Which is why we're hesitant to announce things TOO far in advance.
May I ask what it was? I'm exploring my options for creative and new things to do to help spark up the AP for my players.
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Creative Director
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May I ask what it was? I'm exploring my options for creative and new things to do to help spark up the AP for my players.As for the "new trait system" we originally hoped to include... that sort of mutated into the Harrow card mechanic.
Sometimes we change our minds, in other words. Which is why we're hesitant to announce things TOO far in advance.
It was basically us realizing that we should include the Harrow deck in a horror-themed AP where most of the NPCs and probably a lot of the PCs are Varisians.
I don't know what exactly the designers were thinking but a number of people (myself included) think that the Wealthy Trait is ridiculously high in benefit and don't allow it in character generation.
I took the Wealthy trait and spent all of it on mundane crap that has no combat use. I bought:
* 2 months rent for a sizeable home* 2 months wage for a lifelong loyal family servant
* 2 horses and 2 months worth of feed.
* A battered but functioning carriage.
* Other mundane stuff.
So it depends what you use it for. I'm thinking of a cleric character for a possible Carrion Crown character. In order to pull off the character, I'm going to want impressive armor but that translates to parade armor for me. I'll also want a fancy shield so I can have my holy symbol on it, silver holy symbol, silver weapon, courtier's outfit and a masterwork doctor's kit.
In order to pull all of that off, I'm probably going to have to go the Wealthy trait again. In contrast if I were to do my Private Detective idea, him being poor is a core part of the character so I'd avoid the Wealthy Trait in that case.
As far as the metagaming and min/maxing goes - by all means, choose the trait with the best bonus regardless if it fits your character concept or not. Heck, rewrite your character concept to get the traits you need. At the end of the day, as long as you're having fun, you're doing it right.
"Your character once saved the Professors life" is about the easiest thing to include in your character background...
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Is anyone going to try to do a mini-adventure where they actually get to meet the Professor so to bring maybe an attachment to him?Ooooh, that's a REALLY cool idea.
Great idea though! Totally post here when you decide how your going to tackle this!
Is there any Dungeon adventure that anyone can think of that could fit this bill?
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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I'd substitute the professor for the wizard Allustan in The Whispering Cairn, from Dungeon #121. You could close off the elevators in the dungeon itself to make it a bit smaller, and replace the monsters with some skeletons or zombies to keep things spooky. This has a benefit in that the character the professor replaces is a sort of scholar already, the encounters are appropriately balanced for a 1st-level party, and it comes with some pretty basic dungeon maps. I'd contrive a simple goal for the PCs, pepper the professor's dialogue with pedantic but lovable exposition regarding whatever he's sending the PCs into the Cairn for, and resist the temptation to focus on the Dungeon magazine stuff for more than a couple of sessions, so you can get into Carron Crown proper.
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Creative Director
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I, on the other hand, would substitute the wizard for the heiress Lavinia Vanderboren, and then have the Professor send the PCs out to investigate an old family vault that might just contain some hidden information about the Whispering Way. The PCs can help the professor get into the vault, and can see him claim one of the books that they later, in "Haunting of Harrowstone" get to look through and then deliver back to the University.
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@Mikaze; There's a trait called Humanlike or something that allows half breeds to fit in better as humans. Your orcish side doesn't show itself much, maybe just in build and hair quantity, or darkvision.
I'd prefer to be able to let the green show, but if one absolutely had to...
I was just worried that the half-orc and orc options would lead to torches-and-pitchforks everywhen and everywhere to a disruptive degree, especially in the first AP orcs are getting a foot in the door as a suggested player race option. Can't be that severe though, thinking about it now.
@Mikaze: I doubt Paizo would write in a riot every time an NPC sees an orc, but that probably depends on your DM.
I'd prefer to be able to let the green show, but if one absolutely had to...
I was just worried that the half-orc and orc options would lead to torches-and-pitchforks everywhen and everywhere to a disruptive degree, especially in the first AP orcs are getting a foot in the door as a suggested player race option. Can't be that severe though, thinking about it now.
I agree. I found it odd that that orcs can be a ligitimately possibility, yet everyone hates orcs. More so than any of the other options. Wouldn't they avoid the area? Would it not be better to be an Orc is Serpents skull or something like that.
I admit, I know little about Golarian, so I can be off base. I am assuming orcs are widespread and perhaps not hated everywhere.
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I agree. I found it odd that that orcs can be a ligitimately possibility, yet everyone hates orcs. More so than any of the other options. Wouldn't they avoid the area? Would it not be better to be an Orc is Serpents skull or something like that.
I admit, I know little about Golarian, so I can be off base. I am assuming orcs are widespread and perhaps not hated everywhere.
Orcs are pretty much hated everywhere in Golarion, though there are places where the hatred is mild enough that some trade goes on with them, particularly in regions where the dominant culture isn't very civilized to begin with. Half-orcs are ubiquitous in most regions where there are any orcs at all, and people typically feel a little less bigoted toward them. Some even feel pity for half-orcs, but this gets all muddled up in the hate people feel toward full-blooded orcs, combined with the fear that a given half-orc might be a spy for his orcish relatives... It all becomes ugly too quickly.
As far as why they don't leave... People get hated all the time in the real world and don't leave--partly because they won't be driven from their homes, and partly because they don't have any place to go that would necessarily be better. I imagine that half-orcs in Ustalav are the same way. People look down on them as sub-human, spit on them in the streets, make racist jokes about them, and keep them out of good neighborhoods, and the half-orcs put up with it because the alternatives are going and living with the orcs (which would be unimaginably worse) or setting out for another country (where instead of just hating you, the people might actively hunt you). That pretty much explains it all to me.
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I want to run my players to lvl 20, so I will be increasing the CR of the AP as we go. I am doing their 1st level via email as individual encounters where they meet the late Prof. At the end (beginning of AP) of their prologue they will be lvl 2 and gain the additional traits feat one of which must be the AP specific trait the want and I base their email adventure on.
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I'd substitute the professor for the wizard Allustan in The Whispering Cairn, from Dungeon #121... and more cool stuff.
Thanks for the response Erik, late night for you?
That's an idea, and it would give me an excuse to run The Whispering Cairn which is an amazing opening adventure. I wonder whatever happened to the hack who wrote it? Children's books maybe?
;-)
His take on cool stuff.
See that, the Publisher and Creative Director weighing in on this little thread.
That's why Paizo ROCKS ! And Paper and Scissors as well !!
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Thanks for the response Erik, late night for you?
With the exception of a much-needed vacation last month, I'm afraid they're pretty much all late nights for me. I'm helping out where I can with our proofreading, and have been doing about a book a week since the beginning of the year.
Not a lot of rest for anyone at Paizo these days, actually, but it's a good kind of frantic. :)
So this one I'm very jazzed about. I'm reading through the character primer/players guide. Cant wait...:)