
Kalyth |
Not sure where this should go. Not a rules question nor a suggestion for a change. Just looking for peoples opinions.
How come Detect Evil and Detect Undead are 1st level spells while Detect Magic is a Cantrip.
Detect Evil seems just on par with Detect magic as far as usefulness.
Detect Undead much more situational than detect magic.
Yet both of those spells are 1st level while Detect magic is a Cantrip.
Thoughts?

wesF |

Magic radiates off of objects and areas. Detect magic can be thought of in the same was as a passiver radar system. The passive radar system doesnt transmit, it only recieves.
Whereas evil/good/undead/chaos/etc are at the core of a creatures "soul" (for lack of a better word). It doesn't radiate per se. I know clerics have an appropriate aura, but aura and radiate are not the same thing for this example. So you would have to use a more difficult active system to locate the evil/undead/good/etc. The spell sends out "radar" and recieves reading. Its the magical equivelant of a real life active radar system.
In short passive is easier and active is harder. Hence the level difference.
Also, a something being Magic doesnt necessarily mean you should kill it. However if it's evil/undead most characters (being good aligned) would feel the urge to hit bash it in the face with sticks. So basically it's a minor game balance issue.
Thats the best rationale I can think of.

MythrilDragon RPG Superstar 2008 Top 16 |

Detect magic used to be a first level spell before Cantrips were part of the official rules. Now that the rules have changed to have 0-level spells it comes down to logic about the use of the spell. Detect evil and detect undead are not necessary spells to function in the world of magic, however how can you explain a spell caster who is a master at working with spells not begin able to detect magic. Making detect magic a 0-level allows all spell caster access to it without yanking one of their limited first level slots to know and use it.

Kalyth |
Detect magic used to be a first level spell before Cantrips were part of the official rules. Now that the rules have changed to have 0-level spells it comes down to logic about the use of the spell. Detect evil and detect undead are not necessary spells to function in the world of magic, however how can you explain a spell caster who is a master at working with spells not begin able to detect magic. Making detect magic a 0-level allows all spell caster access to it without yanking one of their limited first level slots to know and use it.
I can aggree with the usefulness of Detect Magic. Its almost universally useful. By neccessity they maded it a cantrip. But Detect Evil and Detect Undead are often less useful or situationally useful yet still rank in the 1st level spell catagory.
Detect Evil: Most things you encounter will be pretty obvious that you need to fight them. Charging Orc? I'm just guessing.
Most uses of Detect evil will be like Councellor Troi in Star Trek stating "I'm sensing that they are hostile captain." as the Romulans are firing upon them.
If you are using detect evil as the "can I attack this monster" power its pretty much a catch 22. If you spend 3 round focusing on a target to see if it is evil then more than likely if it is going to attack it already has.
Detect Evil has a limited duration if cast it could possible last a couple of encounters but not the entire "dungeon trek". Once you stop concentrating on the spell it drops and you would have to recast it to use it again. Would you really devote more than one first level slot to preparing this? It's main usefulness that I have encountered is for gauging specific NPCs and figuring out who you can trust. And even then, just because something is evil doesnt mean you have the right to kill it nor does it mean that the target is actually guilty of any crime relavent at the current time. It just means their evil. Far less useful in my eyes than detect magic.
Detect Undead is even more limited. Would you really devote a 1st level spell slot to detect undead (one specific class of monster) for the short duration. If you are going into a crypt or a place where you have prior knowledge that undead will be present sure maybe memorized it. But heck in that situation you already know Undead are present and its short duration as an "Enemy Radar" again means only a couple of encounters tops and only if your concentration doesnt break, meaning you cant take any action during those encounters.
Detect magic, unless you are playing a low magic game will be used multiple times throughout a session. Detect Undead and Detect Evil seem only useful to me if they can be used multiple times. Being able to detect one "encounter" pretty much puts them into the "never prepare catagory". Let alone taking them on spontaneous casters and burning through all my 1st level spells.

Asphesteros |

My meta answer is while both have strategic uses, detect evil and undead are primarily tactical (location and disposition of the enemy to help in the fight), while detect magic is primarily bookeeping (seeing what of the loot is what, after the fight). As a design choice, resource management is more heavily weighted on the tactical side than the bookeeping side, so (occasional magic detectable enemies notwithstanding) IDing the enemy costs precious slots, while IDing loot is free.

Remco Sommeling |

I think the main reason is the 'required' detect magic spell after a battle to check for loot quickly and without fuzz. I'd rather have seen casters being able to swap out any spell of 1st level and up for a detect magic at any time and make a 0-level version that functions on touch maybe.
I just think they'd done it different if they had given it some more thought.

Nate Petersen |

I play intrigue and mystery heavy campaigns and Detect Evil at will, or any other alignment spell at will, would totally screw with adventure design as well as global politics. Detect Undead likewise has effects for sentient creatures such as vampires or liches who may be trying to pass themselves off as living. Doing a cursory scan of the party reveals someone is undead, focusing makes you obvious but narrows the field, and go from there.
So yea, having unrestricted access to some stuff like that makes it more difficult to build & manage the world as a DM.

erik542 |

So yea, having unrestricted access to some stuff like that makes it more difficult to build & manage the world as a DM.
Reminds me of the 4e eladrin; having an entire race whose commoners can teleport regularly makes it hard to build a sensical world. There's a few things that I never allow simply to build a coherent world, teleportation and planar travel are the big ones. Also not making certain magic items not available can really help.