I am intrigued by the Polearm master archetype.
My idea would be to have a fighter wielding a guisarme. When an opponent is charging him, he gets an attack of opportunity which he will use to trip the opponent. This prevents the opponent from getting an attack (prone 10 feet away) and lets the fighter attack at +4 on his next turn. Plus an attack of opportunity the next round when the opponent stands up.
How does using a trip attack with a reach weapon work if the fighter doesn't have improved trip yet? (If he isn't human, Combat Expertise and Combat Reflexes would be the first level feats.)
My reading is that the fighter wouldn't provoke an attack of opportunity from the charging opponent (assuming it doesn't have reach), but would provoke one if there is an opponent threatening him.
Greater trip provokes an attack of opportunity on the tripped opponent. I presume this includes one from the tripping fighter, provided he still has one?
I think that AoOs refresh at the beginning of the characters turn.
Is there a party balance issue if the only fighter is built this way?
Since the fighter would be standing back from the combat, he wouldn't be filling the role of "willing target" for the party. This would be somewhat mitigated by his increased threatening range.
Also, he doesn't have the spare feats to get Power Attack and Cleave as early as a proto-typical fighter would. Does the party suffer for not having someone who can bring the thunder?
(We will be running published adventures that often have implicit assumptions about party power.)
For some reason, the idea of a guisarme wielding halfling amuses me, so I think that is what I am going to go with.
Str: 16, Dex: 16
Feats(Level): Combat Expertise(1), Combat Reflexes(1), Improved Trip(2), Weapon Focus(3), Weapon Specialization(4), Improved Feint(5), Greater Trip(6)
[I haven't thought ahead further than that.]
Any comments or advice not related to my questions are still appreciated.
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If you don't have Improved Trip, you do provoke an AoO when you try to trip anybody. Anybody who threatens you may take this AoO. Since your opponent doesn't threaten you without reach, he may not take such an AoO on you.
I think you are correct regarding greater trip and AoO refresh.
Party balance depends on the rest of the party. You may find yourself fitting in just fine, or you might find yourself in dire need of a sidearm.
Combat Reflexes + Reach is an excellent combination, and extremely powerful at first level. I bid you good luck and good hunting.
Be aware that halflings do suffer an additional -1 size penalty on CMB/CMD.
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Exotic Weapon: Fauchard 1d8 1d10 18-20/x2 reach, trip
I wold not use halfling. Halflings are small = max trip size meduim. Meduim = max trip size large.
Feet:Fury's Fall: Improved Trip: Add your dexterity bonus to CMB with trip attacks.
How does using a trip attack with a reach weapon work if the fighter doesn't have improved trip yet? (If he isn't human, Combat Expertise and Combat Reflexes would be the first level feats.)
If you fail by 5 or more you are triped or drop the weapon.
Greater trip provokes an attack of opportunity on the tripped opponent. I presume this includes one from the tripping fighter, provided he still has one?
I think that AoOs refresh at the beginning of the characters turn.
By RAW you do. DM might change thes. If I was DM it wold be every one else gets the AOO.
I wold go Human. For three reasons trip size, damage, and feet.
H. Combat Expertise
1. Improved Trip
F1.Exotic Weapon: Fauchard
F2.Fury's Fall
3. Weapon Focus: Fauchard
F4.Weapon Specialization: Fauchard
5. Power Attack
F6.Greater Trip
7. Cleave
F8.Improved Critical: Fauchard
9. Triping Strike
F10.Great Cleave
11.Greater Weapon Focus: Fauchard
F12.Greater Weapon Spcialization: Fauchard
Level 12 Trip CMB With out magic items
Str +4 Dex +3 Greater Weapon Focus +2 Weapon Traning +2 Greater Trip +4 = 15 With magic items around CMB 22 on the low side.
Combinded with a weapon that will crit on a 15+ and triping strike. This can be a deadly combo.
I piced Fury's Fall over Combat Reflexes. This will incress your Trip CMB enough where its well worth it. Cleave and Great Cleave over Combat Reflexes. Your swing arch is huge. And combinded with triping critical much better IMO.
I could probably live with the -1 to CMB as a halfling, but the inability to trip anything large would be too limiting. (Though the idea of Dodge and Combat Patrol is intriguing.)
I saw the Fauchard on the SRD, but at the moment am only looking at Core/APG items.
What source is Fury's Fall in?
Thanks for the advice.
I actually think the character using greater trip is the only one getting the Attack of Oppurtunity, fairly certain it was meant like that.
I piced Fury's Fall over Combat Reflexes. This will incress your Trip CMB enough where its well worth it. Cleave and Great Cleave over Combat Reflexes. Your swing arch is huge. And combinded with triping critical much better IMO.
I'm not sure why you are choosing Cleave over Combat Reflexes. For one, without Combat Reflexes, you only get 1 AoO per turn, which means whenever faced with more than one enemy, the pole arm fighter is going to be missing out on a pile of AoO's.
Prerequisites: Str 13, Power Attack, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: As a standard action, you can make a single attack at your full base attack bonus against a foe within reach. If you hit, you deal damage normally and can make an additional attack (using your full base attack bonus) against a foe that is adjacent to the first and also within reach. You can only make one additional attack per round with this feat. When you use this feat, you take a –2 penalty to your Armor Class until your next turn.
The two things with Cleave are:
1. You cannot Cleave as an AoO, it is a standard action only.
2. You also cannot Trip on a Cleave, as it specifies that you do damage. It also calls out that you use your attack bonus and not your CMB. So theres two things keeping you from Trip Cleaving.
You can still Tripping Strike Cleave to do damage and on a crit knock people prone, but you are talking a pretty huge feat investment for one trick that will occasionally be useful. Combat Reflexes works all the time and is useful from the moment you get it right through you adventuring career.
As for party balance, you will probably have to work with your team mates a little more than usual for a Fighter to be as effective. On the other hand, you also deliver much more battlefield control than a normal Fighter. If your party has a couple of 3/4ths BAB melee damage dealers you might actually contribute more damage than a normal fighter. That +4 bonus to attacking prone targets will let those characters really dish out the damage when they might otherwise miss. Its too bad prone doesn't make someone sneak attackable, otherwise you would be the dual-wielding Rogues best friend...
All in all, even if you are a *little* bit behind a straight fighter in damage output, it shouldn't be enough to notice a difference in the published modules.
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Level 12 Trip CMB With out magic items
Str +4 Dex +3 Greater Weapon Focus +2 Weapon Traning +2 Greater Trip +4 = 15 With magic items around CMB 22 on the low side.
Did this wrong way wrong.
Level 12 Trip CMB with out magic items
Str +4 Dex +3 Greater Weapon Focus +2 Weapon Traning +2 Greater Trip +4
BAB +12= 27 With magic items around CMB 34 on the low side.
What source is Fury's Fall in? Cheliax, Empire of Devils
Fauchard? Classic Horrors Revisited
You can still Tripping Strike Cleave to do damage and on a crit knock people prone, but you are talking a pretty huge feat investment for one trick that will occasionally be useful. Combat Reflexes works all the time and is useful from the moment you get it right through you adventuring career.
Not any more often then you will get multiple AoO in one round.
And Great Cleave with Triping Strike. With a critical profile of 15-20. Triping critical hase a 25% chance to go off any time you swing. So with Great Cleave you hit multiple targets and you have a good chance that each of them ends up on the groud.
Benefit: Whenever you score a critical hit with a melee
attack, you can trip your opponent, in addition to the
normal damage dealt by the attack. If your confirmation
roll exceeds your opponent’s CMD, you may knock your
opponent prone as if from the trip combat maneuver.
This does not provoke an attack of opportunity. If you are
tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop your
weapon to avoid being tripped
It's unclear where it's your to hit roll total, or your roll + CMB. So thats up to your GM. It needs some fixes in RAW.
I actually think the character using greater trip is the only one getting the Attack of Oppurtunity, fairly certain it was meant like that.
"Whenever you successfully trip an opponent, that opponent provokes attacks of opportunity."
The opponent provokes from anyone who threatens him.
Also, remember for cleave, the opponents must be adjacent to each other, as well as within your reach. So if they're flanking you, or they're 5' from each other, you can't cleave them.
Tripping strike does not use your CMB, it's based off the critical confirmation roll. Roll your attack, it's a crit threat, roll to confirm the crit. If you confirm, and the confirmation roll exceeds the CMD, the opponent gets crit and knocked prone (but doesn't provoke, even if you have Greater Trip).
"Whenever you successfully trip an opponent, that opponent provokes attacks of opportunity."
The opponent provokes from anyone who threatens him.
I think this is the right interpretation.
Also, remember for cleave, the opponents must be adjacent to each other, as well as within your reach. So if they're flanking you, or they're 5' from each other, you can't cleave them.
Man, the subtleties you miss when you read by yourself. That's why these boards are awesome.
New plan for the human version of LSD:
Feats(Level): Combat Expertise(1), Combat Reflexes(1), Improved Trip(H), Fury's Fall or Dodge(2), Weapon Focus(3), Weapon Specialization(4), Improved Feint(5), Greater Trip(6)
Fury's Fall depends on the GM discretion of what resources are allowed. Similarly, he might go Fauchard(3), Weapon Focus(4), Weapon Spec.(5) if the GM thinks that magical fauchards might be possible to find/create in his world.
If he weren't trying to be trip-tastic, Whirlwind Attack would be cool, but too many pre-reqs.
I realized that I left a question off my list.
In the Polearm Master, he replaces Bravery with:
At 2nd level, as an immediate action, a polearm master can shorten the grip on his spear or polearm with reach and use it against adjacent targets. This action results in a –4 penalty on attack rolls with that weapon until he spends another immediate action to return to the normal grip. The penalty is reduced by –1 for every four levels beyond 2nd.
What are the rules for doing that without the ability? Is it not possible? Is it a move action? A swift action? Is the penalty the same?
Thank you all for all your insights.
I realized that I left a question off my list.
In the Polearm Master, he replaces Bravery with:
At 2nd level, as an immediate action, a polearm master can shorten the grip on his spear or polearm with reach and use it against adjacent targets. This action results in a –4 penalty on attack rolls with that weapon until he spends another immediate action to return to the normal grip. The penalty is reduced by –1 for every four levels beyond 2nd.What are the rules for doing that without the ability? Is it not possible? Is it a move action? A swift action? Is the penalty the same?
Thank you all for all your insights.
Freakishly, it's not possible.
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Immediate Actions:
Much like a swift action, an immediate action consumes
a very small amount of time but represents a larger
expenditure of effort and energy than a free action.
However, unlike a swift action, an immediate action can
be performed at any time—even if it’s not your turn.
Casting feather fall is an immediate action, since the spell
can be cast at any time.
After your turn to you can shorten shaft changing what squares you threaten. Or if you deal with a close enemy you can immediatly change to reach and keap attacking.
Freakishly, it's not possible.
The case which I would present to the judge is that it is a move action, equivalent to drawing a weapon.
I would also make the claim that the -4 penalty is due to non-weapon proficiency and so is the same for anyone using a shortened grip. (Essentially a short-grasped reach weapon is an exotic weapon.) Thus, the the character could reduce the penalty to zero by spending a feat to be proficient at the "exotic" configuration. A Polearm master archetype would have to decide whether to spend the feat for something he would get for "free" at 18th level.
We'll see if the judge agrees.
<edited for math error>
Freakishly, it's not possible.The case which I would present to the judge is that it is a move action, equivalent to drawing a weapon.
I would also make the claim that the -4 penalty is due to non-weapon proficiency and so is the same for anyone using a shortened grip. (Essentially a short-grasped reach weapon is an exotic weapon.) Thus, the the character could reduce the penalty to zero by spending a feat to be proficient at the "exotic" configuration. A Polearm master archetype would have to decide whether to spend the feat for something he would get for "free" at 18th level.
We'll see if the judge agrees.
<edited for math error>
I'd allow a change of grip to use it as an improvised weapon as a move action, probably doing 1d6 base damage, crit 20/(x2), -4 to hit, but still able to use the magic enhancements and base damage type of the weapon (slashing/piercing/bludgeoning).