Normally, I try to drop as many PCs as possible with most intelligent villans.
I'm one guy, they are alot of guys, the less of them i can make the better for me.
Things like ghouls and such, or other stuff that want to eat you, however have a different focus, so would mad or enraged baddies.
Also would depend if specific bad guy had an agenda to kill off the party or was fighting on the defense and just wanted to win/get away.
Demons and Demon worshipers and generally most chaotic evil types, I'm going for the kill. LE types to include devils? I probably want prisoners to be used for bargaining or leverage later.
NE...selfish, depends on what they are doing, and why they are there.Ninja Assassin type, going for the kill.
Going into the lair of the CE Red Dragon? Im going to kill each one of you, one by one.
Certain BBEG are going to be more dangerous that way.
Ghouls are actually quiet intelligent. I only know this because the first thread of this kind that I ever saw involved ghouls, and they coup d grace'd a cleric. They are more than smart enough with their mental stats to not want to eat a meal in the middle of combat.
Statline=Str 13, Dex 15, Con —, Int 13, Wis 14, Cha 14
Ghouls although intelligent are like real humans addicted to crack.
The are driven to a certain goal to the point of obsession.Like vampires.
They WANT dead people. So an undead like a ghoul or a vampire is out to kill you, and as such isn't so much focused on tactically winning the battle as much as how many of these people can I kill and still self preserve.
So a ghoul might kill the PC and try to drag away a body in the middle of combat and a vampire might do the same really, if doing so it's going to put him in jeopardy.
If no party members are threatening his coup de grace, his escape path, or whatever, why would a ghoul or vampire DO anything BUT kill the PC, barring some over all mad plan or service to a greater master?
The only thing I could see is the vamp wanting to make a spawn (which still kills the PC) or the ghoul passing on the fever to make more of his own, which still kills the PC, and in fact is even worse because they cant be raised.
Intelligent or not, these specific monsters have focuses and goals and reasons for fighting/attacking that say, sane living enemies don't and there for do not have certain predispositions.
A humanoid villan is much more likely to keep a PC (even on the at;s bleeding to death) as a bargaining chip, especially if he can use it as his escape device.
He may even use an action to stabilize him on purpose. (or cast the spell stabilize for that matter if her or she can).
The American Mobsters had a saying something like "You can collect money from a dead man" and "Body counts are bad for business"
The Italian blackhand worked with american special operatives to help win the War in Europe During WW2, essentially because war was bad for business.
Why kill someone, when you can just break their knee caps, and then collect "protection money" from them for the rest of their life?
Different villans have different motivations.
A 13 int crack fiend is still going to go after his fix, although you could argue the addiction lowers int score...
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The bottom line is the GM can interpret the actions of the monsters/NPC's/BBEG/etc anyway s/he feels appropriate. If you do not like the way a GM adjudicates their game, don't play with them. I have quit games because I did not agree with the way the GM ran their game. I have also had a player quit one of my campaigns because our style conflicted. Regardless, you have a choice and continuing this thread, IMO, just restates the same ideas over and over. Let's all just agree that we will not always agree with the decisions of the GM. You can avoid that GM, or take on the role yourself if you think "your" way is better. Pleeeease let this thread die, the horse is thoroughly beaten. :-)
Normally, I try to drop as many PCs as possible with most intelligent villans.
I'm one guy, they are alot of guys, the less of them i can make the better for me.
Things like ghouls and such, or other stuff that want to eat you, however have a different focus, so would mad or enraged baddies.
Also would depend if specific bad guy had an agenda to kill off the party or was fighting on the defense and just wanted to win/get away.
Demons and Demon worshipers and generally most chaotic evil types, I'm going for the kill. LE types to include devils? I probably want prisoners to be used for bargaining or leverage later.
NE...selfish, depends on what they are doing, and why they are there.Ninja Assassin type, going for the kill.
Going into the lair of the CE Red Dragon? Im going to kill each one of you, one by one.
Certain BBEG are going to be more dangerous that way.
Ghouls are actually quiet intelligent. I only know this because the first thread of this kind that I ever saw involved ghouls, and they coup d grace'd a cleric. They are more than smart enough with their mental stats to not want to eat a meal in the middle of combat.
Statline=Str 13, Dex 15, Con —, Int 13, Wis 14, Cha 14
Ghouls although intelligent are like real humans addicted to crack.
The are driven to a certain goal to the point of obsession.
Like vampires.They WANT dead people. So an undead like a ghoul or a vampire is out to kill you, and as such isn't so much focused on tactically winning the battle as much as how many of these people can I kill and still self preserve.
So a ghoul might kill the PC and try to drag away a body in the middle of combat and a vampire might do the same really, if doing so it's going to put him in jeopardy.
If no party members are threatening his coup de grace, his escape path, or whatever, why would a ghoul or vampire DO anything BUT kill the PC, barring some over all mad plan or service to a greater master?
The...
I think that depends how long it has been since the last fix(kill). If the PC's are lucky they are new blood. If the ghouls have fed recently they have to deal with very smart and deadly monsters who are not distracted by their "condition". :)
I have never seen a vampire played like that though. They are normally pretty smart all the time.
I think it is good to see how other people do things. I was quiet surprised when I first found out people get mad when the DM kills them. That was when the narrative style of play was first introduced to me. It also allowed me to give potential players a heads up on how we run things. It has helped solved a few problems before they began. Pen, as an example, runs his ghouls more chaotically than I do mine, and it seems his vampires also.
I think it is good to see how other people do things. I was quiet surprised when I first found out people get mad when the DM kills them. That was when the narrative style of play was first introduced to me. It also allowed me to give potential players a heads up on how we run things. It has helped solved a few problems before they began. Pen, as an example, runs his ghouls more chaotically than I do mine, and it seems his vampires also.
Well it depends on the vampire I guess... the spawn ones are a little more 'hungry', for an example, newborns in twilight... i see them as "spawns" were as something along the line of 'victoria' is more of the "master vampire". It bothered me that bella cutting her self in the movie distracted victoria so easily, but apparently in the book (which ive never read) her blood/smell is supposed to be irresistible , over all I think the writer is a very poor one, because most of the time she doesn't follow her own rules she has written and just says what happens happens (some times edward is strong, sometimes he's not...whatever the moment is that she needs to write what she wants... boring).
Here's a good example of getting mad at a DM who kills you, which also happens to involve a vampire.
We are in a dungeon, its me an my wife. She's a paladin, Im a monk.
The baddy happens to be a vampire, but there is nothing about him as described that leads us to believe he is one, other than he's humanoid.
I can't remember how this combat opened or what he did specifically, but not of it was "vampirey". For whatever reason I thought it crucial to start grappling him (I think we he was a spell caster).
This where things got stupid.
He was better at grappling than me, And I was a pretty strong high level monk with feats focusing on grappling. So I was kinda pissed to begin with.
No description like "he seems stronger than his looks would imply" or "he's cold to the touch" he never hissed or had fangs or nothing.
So, we POUND on this guy, (she never used smite evil because well there was no indication it would work, specifically) and he makes good an escape by using gaseous form.
That was probably the first indication he was a vampire, but wasn't described in a way as to bely a spell-like ability, so we just as assumed it was a spell.
By the time we catch up to this guy, i dunno, hes somehow worse, and he grapples the paladin and drains her constitution to nothing.
So now im figure huh... Ive got to kill this guy and then find a way to resurrect the paladin.
We begin like a 15 minute session of greco roman wrestling where I ply an insane amount of monkly damage to the dude (no explanation that he's fast healing or anything) and he finally rolls enough to beat my grappling, reverses the grapple and sucks me dry of constitution in one action!!
What?
What the heck power is that??
At this point the DM says, well hes a vampire!
Huh?
no teeth?
You never said he bit someone, I was assuming it was a touch attack?
Wait how did the vampire even TOUCH the paladin with her protection from evil and other auras running?
etc etc.
DM: "well if you want we can do it over, now that you know he's a vampire"
Lame.
This is a side encounter that ended our entire Legacy of Fire Campaign.
Later on we found out this made up vampire had a 3d6 con drain ability!!
what the heck!
DM: "I guess I should have looked that power up"
Ummm yea! seeing as I only ROLL 3d6 to get my con score to begin with! that's an insta-kill ability!!
Not to mention he screwed up on the grapple ability of the vampire and i should have had him pinned to the floor like a freshman i was about to give swirlies to in the locker room.
So all in all, with all his broken powers, we fought a Cr 25 vampire at 9th level that would have called Vlad Dracula his grandson....
More on Vampires.
I once Dm'd a Vampire who was a fighter.
He was the lord of the land, who on an adventure had been turned into a vampire, but his master had been killed by the rest of his companions.
He returned to his lands after his party had 'rescued him' and retired from adventuring.
Years later, the party, starts in the "lands" owned by the vampire.
Things are bad, as one would expect if your government was run my a chaotic evil undead sovereign.
Elders in the village speak about a time when things were better etc etc.
The party consisted of a Dwarf rogue, A human Paladin, a Half-elf Barbarian who eventually dual classes into bard and a sorceror.
Part of the adventure hook was the the paladins grandfather was one of the lords former adventuring companions and that he did not actually die, he was turned to stone on a later adventure. The Paladin has inherited her grandfathers sword, (which happens to be +1 holy) the sword is intelligent, has empathy and the special ability of flesh to stone. The weapon was not in the grandfathers possession at the time, as it was 'being enchanted', so he never actually got a chance to use.
The dwarf in the party was actually of of the grandfathers retainers (since he was old enough to be) and was contacted some years ago by the wizard who did the enchanting, to deliver the sword to his master, but his master never returned home. It took the dwarf some time to find the paladin character, as her father is not an adventurer, but a common farmer.
The dwarf is lawful good if you havent guessed.
Anyway.
No one in the party knows it's a "magic sword" and the paladin players isnt aware of her "powers" when the game begins. this was her first time ever playing the game.
During a "narative" scene where BBEG appears to show off his great lordliness and collect some taxes (and possibly eye the population for his next snack), a fight breaks out as the PC's want to beat him up.
So this is a 5th level fighter vampire mind you.
This encounter was just meant to be an "introduce the bad guy" scene,, yknow the one you have to kill later, much later.
well the PC's are mingling with big bads troops (which happen to be disguised skeletons mingled up from the bodies of the vamps victims by his cleric sidekick in his castle) the paladin character, with all 10 of her hit points and her leather armor runs around the skellys with her grandfathers sword (the PC didn't even own a sword of her own) to rush the BBEG.
Facepalm.
So I swing at her with my flail and MISS.
She comes in with a crit on the holy sword and confirms!
BBEG swings his flail again and connects for a measly 9 damage and she crits AGAIN.
Two swipes took down the BBEG, never even got to play the calm cool calculated vampire.
She even got a new horse out of the deal and some half plate to boot!
So the BBEG boss now ends up being the cleric who can barely conjure up a few skeletons.
By the time they got to him he was a pesky fly.
So killing off the party or killing off the BBEG can go both ways unexpectedly.
I could have fiated the vamps escape, but it wasnt in the dice.
Sometimes you just let things happen, sometimes the main boss dies too early, sometimes PCs die.
IF you are at BBEG's feet when you go down and he still has attacks? Odds are not in your favor.
Maybe dont get that close to him all alone if you dont have that many hit points?
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Personally I try to run by the tactics described in the individual encounter. If for some reason I am forced to deviate from that, I rarely use Coup de grace with ghouls.
In stead I rule they start eating their paralyzed prey, i.e. make a single bite atteck (not coup) each round and describe how they ravenously tear into their victims flesh with their teeth.This way I keep the ghoul thread very real, but give players a small (often tiny) break.
...Personally I try to run by the tactics described in the individual encounter. If for some reason I am forced to deviate from that, I rarely use Coup de grace with ghouls.
In stead I rule they start eating their paralyzed prey, i.e. make a single bite atteck (not coup) each round and describe how they ravenously tear into their victims flesh with their teeth.
This way I keep the ghoul thread very real, but give players a small (often tiny) break.
I would most likely be nicer in a society game than I am in a home game. In a home game they might not be so lucky.
@Pendagast and his first vampire post: That sucks. At the least a DM should read the rules. I would have been very upset if that was me.