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First I'll start off by saying that this is based around the Final Fantasy Dragoon, not the historical dragoon.
Second this is meant to be an Archetype for the fighter to prevent multi-classing with the fighter. The class is pretty similar to a fighter and I don't care to see how mixing the classes could be abused.
This is my first draft, so I'm definitely looking for input on the abilities. My main concerns are balance, especially compared to the fighter. My hope with this class is to have an option that deals only slightly less damage than a fighter, but adds a unique form of mobility.
I'm going to link the google docs to the class table and the class abilities.
(If these links don't work please let me know ASAP so I can try and get it fixed. I've never used google docs.)
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Obviously the class is centered around the high jump ability, extending to incredible heights and distance by level 20. While it may seem 'unnatural' the concept here is the suspension of disbelief and magic associated with Pathfinder. I'm more worried about balance on the distance and height than should they have such an ability. This ability and its enhancements are designed to replace the weapon and armor training normally gained by a fighter.
It seemed less of a concern as higher level characters gain many flying options, potentially very early.
Dragoon talents were meant to replace the normal bonus feats. I tried to add a good amount to allow for differences between two people playing dragoons. I'm definitely looking for input on whether these abilities seem fair and balanced, and looking for abilities to add to this list.
I'm also concerned about any potential abuse that could be had with the Dragoon talents that I have missed. This is meant to mainly be compatible with Pathfinder, so abuses with 3.5 material are of less concern to me.
For those unfamiliar with the Final Fantasy Dragoon here is the wikipedia reference. Dragoon
And a reference on a Final Fantasy wiki Final Fantasy Dragoon
However, the flavoring is much less important than mechanical balance. This class is designed for a unique setting, so I'm not worried about Golarian influences RP wise on the class.
EDIT: Added an additional link to information on Dragoon's in Final Fantasy.
At first glance, this appears to be more of an alternate class than an archetype, or even a new class on its own. Sounds cool though. I've always liked the Dragoon in Final Fantasy, so seeing this one come to fruition is pretty cool.
So, looking over the abilities at first glance...
Dragoon Lance - I can see where the necessity of the ability lies, but it seems a tad overpowered, especially since it apparently applies to all fall damage, not just that from high jump. I'd recommend only allowing it to apply to the current level's maximum height of high jump, or just having it apply to high jump only.
High Jump - Having played Final Fantasy tactics, I can see that this ability has been adapted similarly, intentional or not. I am not sure if a full attack action should be given since as is, there is virtually no disadvantage to using a high jump since it basically gives you movement and a full attack for free. I'd recommend limiting it to one attack that gets some kind of special modifier. Either that, or it should only be usable a certain number of times per day, perhaps based on Dex.
Don't want to put it all into one post, so I'll put this out there first.
On Dragoon's Lance I agree, it should be limited to their current height maximum. A very good point I'd not thought of and a good limiter.
My worry on high jump not granting a full attack is that it'll very much limit his use of the ability. I could make it a talent so that there would be cost to the character to gain it. Another limit could be removing Evasive Jump as a class feature and turn it into a talent, and making it only available after say level 10. Mainly shifting more cost into the talents. With a large number of highly wanted talents it'll require the dragoon to make sacrifices.
Making it to where high jumps create attacks of opportunity is very detrimental to using it every turn. So it could be an option of eliminating Evasive Jump as an ability altogether, leaving dragoons to needing to have more AC and the mobility feat to get around.
I would recommend combining Plummet with High Jump, so that there is more benefit to using it without a full attack. This way, the damage would scale by class level - 1d6 at level 1, with a maximum of 5d6 at level 20. Might as well, since as it is, you're already getting +2d6 at Level 5.
Evasive Jump might be a tad unfair at Level 3, since it would let you bounce out of threatened squares, constantly hitting enemies in range instead of just moving. I suppose the downside is that you are still putting yourself right next to an enemy with a reach weapon, but still.
I updated the file to correct some bad wording under armor proficiencies. Also I did change the text under Dragoon's Lance to limit it to their current maximum jump height.
Evasive jump probably should be pushed back to a later level at least. It does give a very high benefit for its level currently.
I can see the full attack being an issue to a degree. It is something I'd rather not see go away, I'd rather see that ability limited to times per day perhaps. 1/2 character level + Dex mod? 1/4 character level +Dex mod?
As for limiting high jumps to a certain amount of times per day I'm very against it. I believe they should gain benefits out of combat with high jump as well, creating a times per day would all but eliminate such use. If we limit the amount of full attacks the dragoon can use with high jump it makes 'spamming' high jump much less useful.
You're right, there isn't much use in delaying plummet. I'll probably go ahead and start getting that edited.
Ok, here's what I'm thinking for a High Jump edit...
High Jump: A dragoon gains the ability to jump to great heights and descend upon their enemies. At first level a dragoon may use a full round action to jump 10 feet high to a location occupied by an enemy up to 15 feet away. At the end of this jump a dragoon makes an attack action against the enemy and lands in an adjacent unoccupied square no more than 15 feet away from their starting location. When a dragoon makes a high jump he adds the falling damage he would normally take from high jumping and adds it as piercing damage on his first attack. This bonus damage is lost if the Dragoon misses with the attack.
High Jump improves at 3rd level and every odd level after it, increasing the height and distance by 5 feet each. A dragoon never needs a running start to high jump, but must be using a spear or polearm effected by the dragoon’s lance ability. High Jump only works in light and medium armor.
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Then at level 6 and a new ability.
Punishing Jump: A dragoon gains a limited ability to full attack at the end of a High Jump instead of his normal attack action. A dragoon may use this ability 1/4 class level + Dex modifier times per day.
Wow. I'm impressed.
Good work!
Suggestion on punishing jump:
Just use the same mechanic for limited uses all other classes use: 3 times + stat bonus per day.
Thanks for the input guys!
Ok, here's a list of potential edits.
Bull’s Lunge (Ex): While making a lunge attack a dragoon may attempt a bull rush. This ability does not provoke an attack of opportunity. A dragoon gains a +4 bonus on this bull rush attempt. Requires the Lunge talent.
Dragon’s Skin (Su): The dragoon gains +1 natural armor. This talent may be taken multiple times. The natural armor bonuses stack.
New Talent:
Weapon Defense: A dragoon gains a +4 bonus against disarm and sunder attempts made against any dragoon's lance he wields.
Also something I'm considering, should they be able to gain a talent that grants evasion?
What do people think on Punishing Jump? 1/4 class level + Dex mod or 3+Dex mod times per day?
EDIT: Should Weapon Defense be a talent or class feature since dragoons are so reliant on not loosing their weapon?
Thanks for the input guys!
Ok, here's a list of potential edits.
Bull’s Lunge (Ex): While making a lunge attack a dragoon may attempt a bull rush. This ability does not provoke an attack of opportunity. A dragoon gains a +4 bonus on this bull rush attempt. Requires the Lunge talent.
Dragon’s Skin (Su): The dragoon gains +1 natural armor. This talent may be taken multiple times. The natural armor bonuses stack.
New Talent:
Weapon Defense: A dragoon gains a +4 bonus against disarm and sunder attempts made against any dragoon's lance he wields.
Also something I'm considering, should they be able to gain a talent that grants evasion?
What do people think on Punishing Jump? 1/4 class level + Dex mod or 3+Dex mod times per day?
EDIT: Should Weapon Defense be a talent or class feature since dragoons are so reliant on not loosing their weapon?
3+Dex works.
Most martial classes are dependant on their weapons...a +4 to CMD vs Sunder attempts may be something to can tack on to an existing ability, or make it a talent.
A few edits made.
Fixed some talents like Bull's Lunge, Dragon's Skin, and Almighty Plunge to work correctly with everything else.
Made Weapon Defense a class ability gained at level 7. Evasive Jump is now gained at level 9.
I added Punishing Jump and has set the times per day as 3 + Dex modifier for the moment.
New Talent idea:
Offensive Fighter: A dragoon can use his Punishing Jump an additional 3 times per day.
iirc some of the dragoons in FF used shields...
Your class makes no mention of them one way or the other.
Was that intentional, or is it just missing?
If they chose to, in Pathfinder they could still use a buckler...
Unless abilities are added with allow them to gain a shield bonus while wielding their polearms, such as creating a talent tree to allow one-handed polearm use, shield proficiency would be an unneeded addition. They would rarely if ever equip a shield.
I knew that they have in some of the games, but wasn't sure about implementing it mechanically.
EDIT: Edited some wording.
Does a shield based talent tree sound like a good idea?
Looking good, High Jump is definitely something I'd use a lot. The obvious weakness is that it benefits from the outdoors since there wouldn't be a height limit, but that balances its advantages rather well.
One of my main concerns now is some of the dragon-related abilities. I don't want to say that "they're just thrown in there," but they really don't supplement the class' main focus, plus there's no indication of how they would have those magical abilities, though that could easily be explained away.
I don't know about the shield feat tree, as I imagine it'd take two hands to properly plunge a spear into an opponent from above. Maybe a buckler tree? XD
Yeah, that's why I added the Lunge ability. So if a dragoon starts having to fight indoors or inside dungeons a lot he can have a lesser backup move.
Honestly the only reason I introduced dragon related abilities was because of the association of dragoons to dragons in Final Fantasy. Even I feel they're a bit thrown in, I just couldn't think of good abilities for a dragon style dragoon.
I'll have to get back to you on a buckler tree. Need some time to look up rules and figure out some proper talent bonuses.
Buckler Defense: A dragoon that selects this talent gains proficiency with with shields. While wearing a buckler a dragoon may still benefit from the buckler's AC bonus while wielding a Dragoon's Lance.
Improved Buckler Defense: A dragoon that selects this talent gains a +1 AC bonus while wearing a buckler and takes no armor check penalty while using bucklers. This talent requires Buckler Defense.
A small start, but I'm not sure what type of benefits would be appropriate buckler bonuses than these basics.
Unless abilities are added with allow them to gain a shield bonus while wielding their polearms, such as creating a talent tree to allow one-handed polearm use, shield proficiency would be an unneeded addition. They would rarely if ever equip a shield.
I knew that they have in some of the games, but wasn't sure about implementing it mechanically.
EDIT: Edited some wording.
Does a shield based talent tree sound like a good idea?
Look at the phalanx (i think) archtype for fighters in the APG...
they have an ability to "short haft" the spear to use it against adjacent enemies and use a shield...
Dragoon
The dragoon is an elite order of knights. Trained from a young age these fighters focus on combat mobility with High Jumping. Feared on the battlefield as elite troops that make tactical strikes against support troops, dragoons are high priority targets. Some believe that their focus on polearms is a weakness, but the most highly trained dragoons have learned to use polearms more effectively than most other weapons.
Role: The dragoon fills a unique roll with any adventuring party. They possess a strong combat prowess, but excel at moving around a battlefield with their patented High Jumps. None surpass a dragoon’s ability to strike against enemy spellcasters and archers.
Alignment: Usually lawful.
Hit Die: d10
Class Skills
The Dragoon’s class skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (nobility) (Int), Knowledge (history) (Int), Perception (Wis), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis)
Skill Ranks per Level: 2 + Int modifier
Class Features
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A dragoon is proficient with all spears, polearms, and simple weapons and with light and medium armor.
Dragoon’s Lance: After a special 24 hour ritual a dragoon makes a special connection with any spear or polearm he possesses that has the reach property. After this 24 hour period the dragoon ignores falling damage while wielding that weapon up to his current maximum jump height as granted by High Jump. A dragoon must have the weapon drawn to benefit from this effect. This ritual may be used on any number of spear or polearms with the reach property owned by the dragoon.
High Jump: A dragoon gains the ability to jump to great heights and descend upon their enemies. At first level a dragoon may use a full round action to jump 10 feet high to a location occupied by an enemy up to 15 feet away. At the end of this jump a dragoon makes a full attack action against the enemy and lands in an adjacent unoccupied square no more than 15 feet away from their starting location. When a dragoon makes a High Jump he adds the falling damage he would normally take from High Jumping and adds it as piercing damage on his first attack. This bonus damage is lost if the Dragoon misses with the attack.
High Jump improves at 3rd level and every odd level after it, increasing the height and distance by 5 feet each. A dragoon never needs a running start to High Jump, but must be using a spear or polearm effected by the dragoon’s lance ability. High Jump only works in light and medium armor.
Dragoon Talents: As a dragoon gains experience, he learns a number of talents that aid him and punish his foes. Starting at 2nd level, a dragoon gains one dragoon talent. He gains an additional dragoon talent for every 2 levels of dragoon attained after 2nd level. A dragoon cannot select an individual talent more than once unless otherwise stated.
Talents marked with an asterisk add effects to a dragoon’s High Jump. Only one of these talents can be applied to an individual attack and the decision must be made before the attack roll is made.
Almighty Plunge* (Ex): When a dragoon makes a High Jump he may instead of making a full attack action through punishing jump make one powerful attack. A dragoon triples his normal weapon damage on this hit. Fall damage is not tripled by this effect. A dragoon may only take this talent starting at 12th level.
Bull’s Lunge (Ex): While making a lunge attack a dragoon may attempt a bull rush. This ability does not provoke an attack of opportunity. A dragoon gains a +4 bonus on this bull rush attempt. Requires the Lunge talent.
Combat Feat: A dragoon that selects this talent gains a bonus feat as a fighter, counting his fighter level as half his dragoon class level (rounded down).
Dragon’s Breath (Su): As a standard action the dragoon makes a breath weapon attack. This breath always deals fire damage in a 30 foot cone emanating from the dragoon. At 2nd level the damage is 2d6 and increases by 1d6 for every three levels after 2nd. Those caught in the area can attempt Reflex saves to take half damage. The save DC against the breath weapon is 10 + ½ class level + dragoon’s Con modifier. This ability is useable ½ class level + Con modifier times per day, minimum one.
Dragon’s Breath, Greater (Su): The dragoon gains the ability to manipulate his Dragon’s Breath. He may change the energy type from fire to electricity, acid, or cold. This talent requires the Dragon’s Breath talent.
Dragon’s Skin (Su): The dragoon gains +1 natural armor. This talent may be taken multiple times. The natural armor bonuses stack.
Draconic Presence (Su): A dragoon gains a frightful presence like a dragon except as follows. Draconic presence may only be activated during a High Jump. The duration is limited to 1d4 rounds and foes are shaken. This DC to resist a dragoon’s draconic presence is DC 10 +1/2 class level + Cha modifier. This talent may only be taken after 6th level.
Draconic Presence, Greater (Su): A dragoon’s draconic presence becomes more effective. The duration increases to 2d4 rounds, and foes with 5 fewer hit dice or levels than the dragoon become frightened instead of shaken.
Dragoon Speed (Ex): While wearing medium or heavy armor a dragoon may move at his full land speed. This only works while a dragoon is carrying a light or medium load.
Extended Jump (Ex): The dragoon adds +5 to the base height and distance of his High Jump ability. This talent may be taken multiple times.
Heavy Jump (Ex): The dragoon gains the Heavy Armor Proficiency Feat and gains the ability to wear it while using High Jump. This talent requires the Dragoon Speed talent.
Lance Fighting (Ex): As an immediate action, a dragoon can shorten the grip on his Dragoon’s Lance and use it against adjacent targets. This action results in a -4 penalty on attack rolls with that weapon until he spends another immediate action to return to the normal grip.
Legendary Leader (Ex): A dragoon gains a +2 bonus on all diplomacy, knowledge (nobility), and sense motive checks. This talent may not be selected if a dragoon already has the Warlord or Way of the Dragon talent.
Lunge* (Ex): Instead of making a High Jump a dragoon may make a lunge. During a lunge a dragoon makes a horizontal jump at his target using ½ his High Jump distance rounded up. A dragoon must have line of sight and a clear path to his target.
Martial Master (Ex): While wielding his Dragoon’s Lance a dragoon may now attack all enemies adjacent to him and at reach. He is considered to threaten all of these squares. A dragoon must have the Lance Fighting and Master of the Lance talents to take this talent.
Master of the Lance (Ex): The penalty from Lance Fighting is reduced to 0. A dragoon must have the Lance Fighting talent to take this talent.
Polearm Focus: A dragoon that selects this talent gains a +1 on all attack rolls made with spears and polearms. This bonus stacks with those gained from Weapon Focus.
Polearm Focus, Greater: A dragoon that selects this talent gains a +2 on all damage rolls made with spears and polearms. This bonus stacks with those gained from Weapon Specialization. A dragoon must have the Polearm Focus talent before taking this talent.
Polearm Master: A dragoon that selects this talent increases their damage multipliers on spears and polearms by 1 (x2 becomes x3, for example). In addition, he cannot be disarmed while wielding a weapon of this type. This talent requires polearm focus, greater and may not be taken before level 16.
Proficient Jumper (Ex): Dragoons may use their High Jump statistics for jumps made out of combat.
Warlord (Ex): A dragoon gains +2 bonus on all intimidate, knowledge (nobility), and sense motive checks. This talent may not be selected if a dragoon already has the Legendary Leader or Way of the Dragon talent.
Way of the Dragon (Ex): The dragoon gains a +2 on all perception, knowledge (arcane), and sense motive checks. This talent may not be selected if a dragoon already has the legendary leader or warlord talent.
Punishing Jump: At level 6 a dragoon gains a limited ability to full attack at the end of a High Jump instead of his normal attack action. A dragoon may use this ability 3 + Dex modifier times per day.
Weapon Defense: Starting at 7th level a dragoon gains a +4 bonus against disarm and sunder attempts made against any Dragoon's Lance he wields.
Evasive Jump: Starting at 9rd level a dragoon no longer provokes attacks of opportunity during a High Jump.
Deadly Jump: Before landing a dragoon throws his dragoon’s lance at his opponent. Beginning at 17th level a dragoon gains an extra attack on High Jump attack at his highest attack bonus. A dragoon takes no falling damage on this attack.
Hangtime: Starting at 20th level a dragoon at his choosing may make a 2 round High Jump. On the first turn a dragoon jumps into the air straight up to his maximum height. Only the second round he plummets to any target within his beginning distance and gains a +4 on all attack and damage rolls against that enemy during the turn.
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I couldn't get a well formatted version of the table so here's what I'll add in general. They have full BAB, good Fort, poor Reflex and Will.
The Phalanx Soldier does gain the ability Phalanx Fighting which allows them to have a shield and use a polearm one-handed at the same time. Polearm Master has Pole Fighting, which is essentially short-haft. However the latter is already made up for in talents and better forms of it.
Would giving dragoon's a talent identical to Phalanx Fighting be appropriate?
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Thanks for posting that for me! That being said, this class has alot of balance issues. Too many of the talents are too powerful or given at low levels with less restrictions than similar abilities from other classes.
NOTES: Just a general point about talents, they should roughly equal in power a feat. Some of yours give the power of 2 or more feats.
High Jump - I really don't like how this does not have a limit per day. You are giving away alot of extra damage at all levels.
Combat Feat - I don't like when fighter only feats are handed out for other classes, but the 1/2 a fighter level is good.
Dragon's Breath - I think you are granting this at too low a level and too many uses per day. A dragon disciple can do this at character level 8 or a sorc/wiz at 7th and they can not use it as often. Maybe have the ability mimic the dragon disciple. Maybe usable beginning at 8th level, usable once per every 4 levels (8th would get 2 daily uses.) And have it function as the dragon's breath spell but limited to one dragon type (within alignment of character).
Dragon's Breath, Greater - With changes above in mind, add 3 uses per day and select a second dragon type for the breath weapon.
Draconic Presence - Have the effect only after a successful hit with a high jump attack. That way your prowess scares those around you and provides a limit to how often it occurs. Limit range to 30 ft.
Draconic Presence, Greater - I would add +2 to DC instead of increased duration.
Dragon Speed - give bonus to moving in Heavy armor, which dragoon is not proficient with. Do not add the feat to this ability, because then this ability would be like gaining 2 feats at once. The Heavy armor feat should be selected with the Combat Feat as a prerequisite for this ability.
Heavy Jump - adding the Heavy armor feat and an ability to jump with it, essentially 2 feats for 1 ability. The Heavy armor feat should be selected with the Combat Feat as a prerequisite for this ability.
Lance Fighting - make it an swift action, as an immediate action you can use at any time. Letting you change the grip as an immediate action and letting you attack adjacent creatures is equal to gaining 2 feats, at least in 3rd edition.
Lunge - have it count as a charge, but he jumps instead to avoid difficult terrain penalties.
Polearm Focus - allows the dragoon to bypass the fighter level prerequisites for greater weapon focus (8th). Not to mention polearm focus is at least 10 feats rolled into 1.
Polearm Focus, Greater - should be Polearm Specialization. same arguments as polearm focus, too early (12th for Great Weapon Spec) and too many feats rolled into 1.
Polearm Master - again too early and too many weapons gain the ability. Weapon Mastery is limited to 1. weapon mastery for a fighter is 20th level and you give this ability to 16 and it counts towards 10+ weapons instead of 1
Proficient Jumper - combined with unlimited jumps per day, allows the dragoon to bypass alot of adventuring obstacles easily.
Legendary Leader, Warlord, and Way of the Dragon - all give a bonus to 3 disparate skills, a normal feat gives a bonus to 2 related skills.
Deadly Jump - should state when during the jump the weapon should be thrown. and as per the rest of class abilities; you could jump in air, throw the weapon at top of the jump, quick draw another, and make a full attack on landing with the first hit getting the fall damage added in. and if you selected the correct fighter feats, begin a cleave... way too much damage
EDIT: I realized I posted an older version of Dragoon. The Dragoon High Jump should read.
High Jump: A dragoon gains the ability to jump to great heights and descend upon their enemies. At first level a dragoon may use a full round action to jump 10 feet high to a location occupied by an enemy up to 15 feet away. At the end of this jump a dragoon makes an attack action against the enemy and lands in an adjacent unoccupied square no more than 15 feet away from their starting location. When a dragoon makes a High Jump he adds the falling damage he would normally take from High Jumping and adds it as piercing damage on his first attack. This bonus damage is lost if the Dragoon misses with the attack.
High Jump improves at 3rd level and every odd level after it, increasing the height and distance by 5 feet each. A dragoon never needs a running start to High Jump, but must be using a spear or polearm effected by the dragoon’s lance ability. High Jump only works in light and medium armor.
High Jump is only supposed to give one attack at the end of it without using Punishing Jump.
___________________________________________________________________Aha, a challenge :p
I'm going to try to answer the concerns one at a time with class comparisons and such.
High Jump - The ability by itself doesn't provide hardly any damage increase. You only get 1 attack plus the fall damage, which at level 20 will only be 5d6. Punishing Jump allows for the full attack and it does have times per day.
Combat Feat - The 1/2 level really limits the use of this for fighter feats. The main one it allows for are Greater Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization.
Dragon's Breath - If you compare the two abilities the dragoon version is much weaker. A dragoon for one doesn't get to pick the type (that's a purposeful choice to make them deal fire damage), and deals 2d6 +1d6 per 3 levels. A Draconic Sorcerer does 1d6 per level.
To compare at level 11 a Draconic Sorcerer will do 11d6 damage while a dragoon will do only 5d6 and be limited to fire.
They do have more uses, but those uses are much weaker.
Dragon's Breath, Greater - This ability really hinges on the base ability so nothing to say here.
Draconic Presence - Here I'm just going to say good call. It should only be on a successful attack. I'll add in a note about 30 ft, it's how I intended the ability to work, but since I did state that it works like a Dragon's Frightful Presence it does need specified. I was only thinking of modifications to the base Frightful Presence which is 30 feet.
Draconic Presence, Greater - Do you mean that the duration part should be swapped for +2 save or the entire ability? If you mean swapping it out, I can definitely agree. Otherwise I don't feel the secondary ability will have too much impact unless you're fighting a hoard of weak enemies. By the time it can effect stronger creatures they'll have a decent chance of beating the save.
Dragon Speed - This ability doesn't grant Heavy Armor Proficiency. Technically as it reads now it'd allow them to move fast in it, but they'd take all of the normal penalties for not having proficiency. This was designed as a talent pickup for Heavy Jump, so I think I should add the talent as a requirement.
Heavy Jump - I don't feel that this is that overwhelming, nor really the strength of 2 feats, maybe 1 1/2 feats. It does grant Heavy Armor Proficiency. That is a straight feat gain, the only added bonus is being able to use it with an ability already gained by the class and the focus of it. Otherwise on an odd level they'll pick up Heavy Armor Proficiency as a feat, possibly even, and then wait either one or two levels to even use it because their central ability is denied in heavy armor.
Of course they could just take the feat and wear mithral full plate and ignore the talent altogether. I don't think a talent should be worth the same as paying for a mithral set of armor.
Lance Fighting - This is a straight copy of the Polearm Master (fighter) ability from the APG, except worse. This is the Pole Fighting ability except that the penalty does not decrease as you level up, you'll have to take another talent for that.
Lunge - That would make lunge stronger and pretty balanced with other abilities, which I do like because lunge felt mediocre as it stood.
Polearm Focus - This functions similarly to the Weapon Training abilities of a fighter, except it only does a +1 to attack, granted it does apply to two weapon types. They also don't gain the CMD from the ability. The ability is actually designed to stack with the Greater Weapon Focus feat a dragoon can take at level 16. Perhaps an addition that it has to be with a Dragoon's Lance? Another idea would be that a dragoon must specify a specific type of polearm for this and Polearm Focus, Greater to make them have less functionality. Honestly I don't see a lot of power issues here.
Polearm Focus, Greater - Should be renamed, but basically the same argument as Polearm Focus. Actually my initial draft did have it as only a +1 on damage, and I can see moving it back to +1. In terms of DPR though a +2 on damage per hit is the same power as a feat but applied to a weapon type. In actual gameplay this probably will barely be an issue.
After looking at my arguments I do have one other way this could be changed. It could apply to only spears and polearms with the reach property, which is basically what I intended anyway.
Polearm Master - I can see bumping the requirement to 20. It has one difference from Weapon Mastery in that criticals don't auto-confirm. As for the weapon type I can agree an ability this strong should be limited to one weapon type.
Proficient Jumper - Any obstacle that this ability can bypass would also be bypassed by the third level spell fly.
Skill Talents - I actually don't have anything specific for defense here, but I'll bring this up in my summary.
Deadly Jump - A few things here. On timing during the jump I don't see this as an issue as using quick draw in that way would be illegal. You can't interrupt one action with another. You can use it in conjunction with other actions, but you can't interrupt a full round action in the middle of it to make a free action. If I'm wrong then it's easy enough to drop the first sentence of the ability to create the same effect as desired. The first line merely specifies how it is done. Also the ability to combine this with a full attack would be limited to times per day since punishing jump is limited to that.
Summary - On talents needing to only have the power level of feats I disagree with this. I feel that that is a good baseline to judge them, but you have to look at the class as a whole. I'll give a comparison of what is swapped for what versus a fighter.
Dragoon's Lance - This only allows one to use class abilities so this doesn't need an equivalent. If you really want one, then this would replace bravery.
High Jump and Weapon Defense - Hard one to compute, but arguably this is by level 20 only going to be about as good as the bonus granted by weapon training. By level 20 a fighter has picked up 4 weapon types. First type has +4 attack/damage/CMD vs Sunder and Disarm, a second at +3s, a third at +2s, and a fourth at +1. The CMD bonus is actually better than Weapon Defense overall. The added attack and damage on 4 weapon types in my opinion is easily just as good as the High Jump ability which only grants movement related bonuses that could be granted by a 3rd level spell with a maximum added damage of 5d6 at level 20 on one attack. High Jump is a fancy version of a limited fly ability. Weapon Defense is a lesser version of the granted CMD bonus fighters get with 4 weapon types.
Winner - Fighter
Punishing Jump - This is a hard one to compare with fighter, but for arguments sake this has about as much power as Armor Training.
Winner - I'll call this a tie. AC bonus vs Times Per Day Attack Bonus
Deadly Jump - Armor Mastery. They are gained at different levels admittedly.
Winner - An unbeatable Damage Reduction vs Attack Damage. I'd say nearly the same amount of power.
Hangtime - Weapon Mastery, and I'd prefer Weapon Mastery. Hangtime will be very limited in what times you'll actually want to loose a turn to gain that +4 attack and damage.
Winner - Fighter
Evasive Jump - Weapon and Armor proficiencies of the classes. Dragoon's (without spending talents) loose most martial weapons, heavy armor and all shield proficiencies.
Winner - Honestly Evasive Jump is good. I might say Dragoon only because they can eventually overcome their weakness here by spending multiple feats.
That leaves the bonus feats vs talents. So yes they should be close, but examining the class abilities vs each other the fighter I believe edges out the dragoon. As it stands one of the dragoon's biggest abilities is comparable to a 3rd level spell except you can move farther and gain a very small damage bonus.
Thanks for the great feedback! It gives me a good chance to reevaluate everything I've written out.
EDIT: Had a realization about Deadly Jump.
Deadly Jump is a melee version of Manyshot. In combination with Punishing Jump it can be applied 3 + Dex mod times per day to full attacks. After those are used up (which if you aren't doing a 15 minute workday could be very possible) you get one extra attack on normal High Jumps which is like the 3.5 Manyshot. I would call this ability only on par with the Manyshot feat as is.
Also about the cleaving, Cleave and Greater Cleave are standard actions now.
Cleave (Combat)
You can strike two adjacent foes with a single swing.
Prerequisites: Str 13, Power Attack, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: As a standard action, you can make a single attack at your full base attack bonus against a foe within reach. If you hit, you deal damage normally and can make an additional attack (using your full base attack bonus) against a foe that is adjacent to the first and also within reach. You can only make one additional attack per round with this feat. When you use this feat, you take a –2 penalty to your Armor Class until your next turn.
So cleaving has nothing to do with high jump attacks.