I've moved this to the Suggestions/House Rules/Homebrew forum - that's probably the best place to post things.
Thank you very much!
As for the idea, well, here it goes.
I have noticed that, during combat, some things don't make too much sense. One is when someone/thing attacks a rogue with a 2h weapon, misses, and that's it. After about a month of no-so active thought, I made a combat system that includes something that people don't really think about: COUNTERS!
Basically, here's the basis of the system. The type of item a person is using for combat is what is going to deduct how many actions you can do for a counter. An example is the dagger. It is light, and you have a free hand if you are not dual wielding. With a light weapon, one is allowed three STANDARD actions. These actions can be attack, grapple, or spell if you wanna push your luck.
These actions are treated as swift due to combat rules on how long an action takes. Also, to begin the counter, you must roll over the assailant's AC to begin. Otherwise, nothing happens, and the person/thing that takes its round after the assailant begins its round. Below is how this would play out. APPLE will be out attacker, and SCUTTLE will be our counter-attacker. I'll show a few different scenarios, so please bear with me.1st Scenario
APPLE: Attacks with greatsword and misses. SCUTTLE rolls for counter to begin and passes. 1st roll: Grapple APPLE's arm. Passed. Attack of opportunity is made and missed. 2nd roll: Attack. Passes, conduct normal damage. 3rd roll: Attack. Passes, 2nd attack, normal damage. Next round begins.2nd Scenario
APPLE attacks with greatsword and misses. SCUTTLE rolls for counter and fails. Next round begins.3rd Scenario
APPLE attacks and fails. SCUTTLE rolls for counter and passes. 1st roll: Grapple. Passed; attack of opportunity fails. 2nd roll: grapple. Passed. SCUTTLE forces APPLE onto the ground and keeps grapple. 3rd roll: Attack. Sneak attack available due to prone target. Next turn begins.4th Scenario
APPLE fails attack. SCUTTLE passes counter roll. All rolls for attack, all...
The game is an abstraction, not an actual simulation. A lot of rules are made a certain way for the sake of balance and ease of play. There are more realistic games, but trying to add too much realism to Pathfinder often makes things worse, not better.
Your above scenario if I read it correctly adds a lot of rolls to the game, which slows things down, and since action-economy rules the game then having more attacks because your weapon is smaller gives a greater advantage. In your game I would just build a strength focused small weapon using fighter, and own anyone using a larger weapon.
Every rule also has an affect on another rule somewhere down the line.
Umm...Well, this is just A scenario. I understand it isn't a simulation, and this is just for fun.
Well, sure, you can be a fighter that uses one light weapon, but what if you attack and miss? Enemies can do the same. As well, if you are surrounded and you want to do a counter, every creature around you gets an attack of opportunity, save for the one you are attacking.
I did not notice the AoO(attack of Opportunity). His(guy with bigger weapon) attack of opportunities is limited to his dex modifier and only if he has combat reflexes can he make more than one AoO so I am willing ot take my chances.
You can't do it on incorporeal creatures since they are not physical.
What does the opponent have to do with the number of attacks? According to the way I understood your rule I get X number of attacks with a light weapon.
Yes, it does have quite a few rolls, but then again, a fighter usually goes for the biggest weapon and the most damage, least the ones I've played with (I go sword/board most of the time.) 2h weapons get only one counter, and it must be an attack. Double weapons count as 2h weapons. Martial weapons get two actions during a counter.
Fighters go for the weapons with the most damage because the current game world physics make it better to do so, but for your world the light weapons are better. Base weapon damage is not the biggest determinator of damage. It is the damage that is added of the attack so if I can make the damage happen more times(make more attacks) then the light weapons are now better than the big weapons.
Example:Longsword being used 2-handed with a strength of 18
1d8+6
Dagger with a strength of 18: 1d4+4 x2(attacks)
The dagger is ahead in damage, and as BAB gives more attacks, and other things come into affect.
Sure, there are a lot of rolls. Yes, it is time consuming. Though one must think this: I'm in a party, and I'm going against an enemy I can take down easily. Do I really wanna use a counter and risk being attacked? As you can see, there are many dangers in countering, due to attack of opportunities. Plus, if you grapple, the enemy can switch the grapple on their turn, or even break it.
I would not grapple though. You are assuming I would because you did. I would just stab him in the face. In my above example I used a dagger, but I would more likely go with a kukri due to the high crit chance, and focus on the critical feat line. Being stunned or blinded means I have taken your AoO's away, and you just have to sit there and take it.
No weapons = 3 attacks. Light weapons = 3 attacks. Medium = 2. 2h = 1. 2 weapon fighting = 3 attacks only. Double weapons = 1 attack (w/ focus & specialization, raises to 2.) Cannot be done on creatures two size categories larger than you. Spells lower DC by 5 if used for counter, and only get one action; it must be no longer than a standard action.
Now that I have read your last post I know I am going with kukris.
Kukris most other weapons when TWF'ing despite their 1d4 base damage simply because of the 15-20 crit range.
Okay...you're wrong on your info. It's 18-20 for Kukris crit range, not 15. Also, any grapple w/o improved grapple feat GRANTS an attack of opportunity. Also, anyone/thing else that is surrounding you is going to be able to attack you, even if it is just one opportunity attack per turn.
No, light weapons are not better in my world. They just allow more actions during the counter. And no, you dont get X number of attacks. You get three with light weapons. If TWF'ing, you get only three attacks if you use TWO LIGHT weapons. If you have a medium weapon and a light weapon, you can only do two actions.
If you have a weapon and shield, you can't grapple, but you can shield bash. The shield depends on how many atk's you can make. Buckler = 3 w/ light weapon, light = 2, heavy/tower = 1.
I know it is 18, but I would take improved crit or get keen.
If they are allow more attacks that make them better.If I get 3 attacks with a light weapon then BAB increase that to 6. If I take all the TWF feats it give me three more assuming we go to that high of a level.
<snipped a lot of info after realizing I may have misunderstood the way your rules wor>
I think you need to write this out in rule form, instead of as an example so we can be on the same page with.
My current understanding:
The counter is your chance to make an AoO and hit the enemy when they swing at you. The number of counters which are made on the opponent's turn are still restricted by having combat reflexes and a high dexterity. If you have a light weapon you get more counters than someone with a medium or larger weapon because they can not react as quickly.
Also-->A grapple is it's standard action, and not a replacement for an attack of opportunity because not all CMB checks can replace an attack.
Examples:
DisarmYou can attempt to disarm your opponent in place of a melee attack.
GrappleAs a standard action, you can attempt to grapple a foe, hindering his combat options.
Performing a Combat Maneuver: When performing a combat maneuver, you must use an action appropriate to the maneuver you are attempting to perform. While many combat maneuvers can be performed as part of an attack action, full-attack action, or attack of opportunity (in place of a melee attack), others require a specific action.
So the fighter turtles(boost AC to include fighting defensively and so on) with a high enough dex to try to get at least 3 counters in, assuming he stays with a light weapon.
Most fighters have high enough AC that a monk can not hit them without a roll of at least 16 so I would take the chance at the counter. I keep my fighter's Ac to 20+level. If the part is facing mulitiple enemies they won't be able to him the fighter realiably, while the fighter has his round, and the enemies round to finish the bad guys off.
Natural weapons are light weapons. Dragons and less creatures with natural attacks are going to benefit greatly from this.
This does seem to make a sword and board guy more viable without him having to go to TWF, which is a good thing.
This mechanic seems too troublesome. It adds roo many extra rolls. The fights in the game are more abstract, if you opponent fail to hit you AC and you hit him in your turn, that represents countering his strike.
Yeah, I was trying to get the sword and board to become a bit more effective, since all the ppl I play with always make my fighter (S&B)come out to be the first dead, trying to prove that they suck.
Is this why you want a new rule?
Are you a PC in that game? How do the others make your fighter die first? Are they letting another PC to hang just to say your character suck? Is the wizard not buffing you and the cleric not healing, the other melee users gang-up on one monster and let you alone against the other two? Is the DM going after you particularly?If the answer to one of those questions is yes you don't need a new rule, you need a new gaming group.
If you are going to institute a rule that favors light weapons, you need to give something to heavery weapons to counter it. This part of what wraith strike was saying about abstractions. There are a ton of intricacies of combat that the game doesn't represent accurately for the sake of ease of play and balance. If you incorporate a counter system that favors quick light weapons, you are unfairly giving a disadvantage to bigger slower weapons that in the real world would have a longer reach, get through armor easier, and do dramatically more damage to an opponent.
Kolokotroni: It is not suppose to only favor light weapons. You can do it with any weapon. Yes, heavy weapons are slower, which is why they only get one counter action. I never said you don't keep your bonuses to attack. If you fight someone w/ reach, and you have a reach weapon, go ahead and use it! There's a reason I give heavy weapons so little actions= Way more damage. If I let all weapons do, lets say ,2 counters, then everyone will just get a 2h and wail on everything. Perhaps the counter could be a 5-foot step back, so you can do a full attack action on your turn?
Though I could make it so all 1h weapons do only 2 actions, since you can wield them in 1 hand. And in case someone mentions this up, holding a 1h weapon in 2 hands means you get 1 action.
Please give any suggestions. If no suggestions are made by 12pm, then I will cease on developing this combat system, and be on my merrily way. ^ ^
The system does favor light weapons, changing the balance of existing weapons. They work better in this system then large weapons, thus the system favors them.
There is already a balance in the weapons, things like availability for feats (weapon finesse, two weapon fighting), or the fact that they can be thrown, easily concieled etc.
Do you feel that the styles that utilize light weapons or one handed weapons (two weapon fighting and sword and board) are inherantly inferior to 2handed fighting and thus need to be improved? I am not trying to debate you I am just trying to understand your point of view to offer useful advice.
People do pick the weapon with the highest base damage, but as I said that is the smallest determinator of the weapon's damage output. End damage whether it is from sneak attack or strength is where the power is, and the crit range is the other one. If they still like base damage then let them continue to do so. It is not work making an entire subsystem over. A longsword only does 2 more points of damage on average than a dagger if you just go off of base weapon damage.
Extra attacks(actions in general) though are where the money is in the game, and the light weapons get a lot better with that by your rules.
That is why haste is such a good spell. That extra attacks does a lot of extra damage. If you want them to try something different then just ask them to do so, however if the campaign are so hard they need the best builds to survive they might not want to agree.
With your system they will probably all change to light weapons, and then it will be the same thing all over again except with only light weapons instead of heavy weapons. It seems the group goes for power over concept, and you like things to be based on concepts. It is really just a play style difference that is better solved out of character.