I'm currently building a Summoner for an upcoming campaign (we're continuing where we left off in terms of level, just with new characters and in the future), and I could use some help. In particular, I don't know what feat I should select for my Eidolon's third feat. Yes, there are lots of good ones out there, I'm just stuck. Even if I don't play this guy, I want to solidify the build for the future, and just because I put some time into it (and I think it's a genuinely good build).
I'm also submitting the build in general to be analyzed. For example, my character and how he's built. Can he be improved? I don't think so, at least not at the level we are and with the money we have to spend. As I mention below, level 8 is a nice boost to both me and my Eidolon.
The general plan is that I'll be riding my Eidolon as an ill-suited mount (so -5 to Ride checks, unless I'm missing something else). He's not a mount, so using him as one makes him an ill-suited mount, yes? Once he becomes large at next level, I'm going to have a sort of harness that holds a platform at his shoulders and treating it as a Military Saddle (Exotic) crafted for my Eidolon (it's for flavor purposes, enough that I'll spend on it - plus I can say that since it has to act as a saddle, it has walls on the sides, enough that I can duck down for cover behind).
Of course, I'm not completely attached to that concept. I can always just stand on the ground and be within his ridiculously large reach range, or even move up to be near him.
I'm also not concerned about not having Precise Shot for my archer. Yeah, you heard me. The build I'm going for will at next level be able to take advantage of the Eidolon's large reach and push evolution (and maybe a pull evolution) and reach evolution (which is how he'll get that ridiculous reach) so that most of the targets in his reach will not qualify for being in melee for the purposes of the -4 penalty. I read those rules very closely. Please also be sure that you've recently read them if you're going to critique that idea of mine, and remember that even large/huge creatures can take a 5-foot step.
I'd just like to say before I start, everything I've selected ties in to the character background and makes sense. This isn't for pure optimization (although I tried to do a decent job). I can easily drop Heirloom or use any other bow (hence why I selected the alternate racial to be able to use any longbow if I can't or don't want to use my heirloom weapon).
Also, this character gets MUCH better at level 8, when I can start doing what I plan to do, which is to give my eidolon crazy reach and provide a super threatened area. Or he'll get the ability to push/pull 5ft away/towards him on a successful attack if I think that will be more useful to constantly have than reach - extra reach can always be granted via a spell, either through enlarging or evolving, possibly both. I can do other things, too. He also gets a nice boost to STR and CON.
Now, on to it!
Half-Elf: Summoner (Remove Multitalented and add Arcane Training, Remove Adaptibility and add Ancestral Arms Longbow)
Level: 7 Summoner (7/4 EP from FC bonus)
Languages: Common, Elven, Celestial
Traits: Elven Reflexes, Heirloom Weapon (Mighty +2 Darkwood Composite Longbow) - We are creating characters at a higher level (7), and it says at character creation. I understand that things must be legal from level 1 up for feats and whatnot, but this is how it's written. If I CANNOT do this alone, then I replace Elven Reflexes with the trait giving me 900 gold on start, obviously I don't get it at +1, but it's within the value when non-magical. My choice is legal by RAW, however.
Feats: 1 - Point Blank Shot, 3 - Weapon Focus (Longbow), 5 - Arcane Strike, 7 - Rapid Shot
Skills: Spellcraft 1, Use Magic Device 1, Linguistics 1, Knowledge (Arcana) 1, Handle Animal 1, Ride 1, Fly 1
STR 14 - 14
DEX 16 - 19
CON 14 - 14
INT 7 - 7
WIS 9 - 9
CHA 14 - 14
Left is point buy stats, right is adding in level stat buy and racials (20 point buy).
Spells: (Cast Per Day: 1st - 5, 2nd - 4, 3rd - 1)
Cantrips: Guidance, Detect Magic, Read Magic, Mage Hand, Message, Light (or Mending)
1st: Mage Armor, Shield, Lesser Rejuvenate Eidolon, Enlarge Person, Reduce Person
2nd: Summon Eidolon, Lesser Evolution Surge, Barkskin, Haste
3rd: Evolution Surge, Greater Magic Fang
Items (23500 GP):
2000 - Handy Haversack
1800 - Efficient Quiver
6150 - Elven Chain +1
2430 - (Heirloom) Mighty +2 Darkwood Composite Longbow +1
5000 - Bracers of Archery, Lesser
4000 - Belt of Incredible Dexterity +2
1000 - Cloak of Resistance +1
150 - Wand of Gravity Bow (10)
20 - Arrows, common (400)
20 - Arrows, blunt (200)
20 - Arrows, whistling (40)
10 - Arrows, flight (100)
900 - Gold Pieces
All of the items that can be equipped are on me, not my Eidolon. I could always make the wand fully charged if partial charge isn't allowed.
Stats with gear:
STR 14
DEX 21
CON 14
INT 7
WIS 9
CHA 14
AC: 22 +2 if in my Eidolon's reach (26 if I can or should cast Shield on myself, and either 25 if just Barkskin is up or 29 if Barkskin is added to this)
Touch: 15
Flat: 17 (21 if I have a Shield still up, and either 20 if just Barkskin is up or 24 if Barkskin is added to this)
Saves: Fort - 5, Ref - 8, Will - 5
+2 to all saves if in my Eidolon's reach
Attacks: Shoot -> +14 to hit for 1d8+5 damage, and two attacks at +12 to hit for 1d8+5 if I activate Rapid Shot
-----
Eidolon (Biped):
Ability Score Increase: STR +1
Feats: Combat Reflexes, Power Attack, ? (I don't know what I should get for his third feat - Improved Natural Weapon for claws seems good, but it would ONLY be good if his form has claws, but since that is a free evolution as a biped it might make sense for the sake of evolution point efficiency to have his main method of attacking remain claws throughout his whole evolutionary line. I would take Standstill if only it wasn't merely adjacent. Shield Proficiency? Shields outclass the spell later on mainly because you don't need to burn an action to put it up, but I wonder if that will be one natural attack too many reduced to hold a shield.)
Bonus 4 Class Skills: Diplomacy, Intimidate, Sleight of Hand, Survival (ALL are subject to change - Possibly replace two for Swim and Climb due to his ridiculous STR, except that he can naturally get movement for those with just a Lesser Evolution Surge, although it would be nice for simple checks and to use it all the time. I should probably give him Acrobatics, actually.)
Skills Invested: I don't even have it settled yet.
Evolutions: 10 + 1 EP (from FC)
1 - Improved Natural Armor
1 - Improved Damage (Claws)
2 - Energy Attacks (Acid)
2 - Ability Increase (STR +2)
2 - Ability Increase (STR +2)
2 - Limbs (Arms)
1 - Claws (Arms)
Stats:
STR 24
DEX 15
CON 13
INT 7
WIS 10
CHA 11
AC: 20 (24 since Mage Armor lasts nearly a whole day even if it takes two casts, 28 if I can cast Shield on him, and 31 if I can also cast Barkskin on him.)
Touch: 12
Flat: 18 (22 if Mage Armor is up, 26 if Shield is for some reason up too, and 29 if Barkskin is still up on him.)
Saves: Fort - 6, Reflex - 4, Will - 5
Attacks: Claws X 4 -> +13 to hit for 1d6+7 damage and 1d6 acid each attack, all at full BAB
This is without Power Attack on, and when he's medium. He gets effectively +8 STR (and a -1 to hit due to size) and +4 CON with no AC change if I cast Evolution Surge to grant Large (It's evolved through the spell, not selected as a baseline change, the RAW seems to allow for the spell to grant the Large evolution through the spell even if I'm not level 8 yet, when I can normally add it to his base form as a permanent evolution. My reasoning is this is a friggin' spell expended, and it's not permanent, and the RAW allows it.)
Nigrescence wrote: Spells: (Cast Per Day: 1st - 5, 2nd - 4, 3rd - 1)
Cantrips: Guidance, Detect Magic, Read Magic, Mage Hand, Message, Light (or Mending)
1st: Mage Armor, Shield, Lesser Rejuvenate Eidolon, Enlarge Person, Reduce Person
2nd: Summon Eidolon, Lesser Evolution Surge, Barkskin, Haste
3rd: Evolution Surge, Greater Magic Fang
Let me start with this.
I would rethink the following spells: Lesser Rejuvenate Eidolon, Summon Eidolon and Evolution Surge.
Instead of the former I would suggest that you consider Mount, Unfetter, or Unseen Servant as any of these should see better use for you. Personally I'd go with Unseen Servant for now and unfetter later (using wands for the rest), but you might wish to use mount for a while until overland flight is an option.
I would not really go with summon eidolon as a spell known either, but rather use a scroll of it (unless you believe that casting it will become a frequent occurance?) You will want ways to cast see invis, glitterdust (just to remove invis threats), and wind wall. These are all possible via scrolls. Likewise a scroll of slow in a few levels simply for negating enemy haste spells. For now 200gp is a bit steep for that. Since you've invested a deal into the eidolon's str you might consider bull's strength until a STR item (ioun stone) becomes viable for it.
As to third level spell (as you only get one/day) I would look at dimension door, black tentacles, greater invisibility and even wall of fire as none are saved based but can be game changers. You haven't told us what the rest of the group will be though, so perhaps these things are covered.
As to items: There is a 'cracked' ioun stone that let's you store 1 level of spells in it. I would suggest that you consider this to augment your poor UMD score for gravity bow. This way you would have a sure fire way to cast the spell (take a few rounds to UMD the wand then put it in the stone, then cast it from the stone as a sure fire standard action rather than a 25%).
Likewise you will get good millage out of a lesser rod of extend spell already and this will only get better as you level.
Meanwhile I think the +1 elven chain is overbought for you. You can likely make do with a +1 mithril chain shirt for 4k less. Eventually you will want celestial armor, but that's a ways off.
Feat choices: For the summoner, not having deadly aim will curtail your damage potential. Getting weapon focus over precise shot is iffy, but I think that Deadly Aim will trump both for you. Likely you will want to get seeking on your bow ASAP so while you might suffer lack of precise shot you won't have to worry about cover.
Feat choices: For the eidolon, pity you're talking about the 5HD feat otherwise eldritch claws, lunge or even rending claws could work imho. Improved Bull rush could work for you. I would normally suggest a weapon proficiency feat for a biped eidolon, but seeing as you want to push with claws that might not work well for you.
I think Improved Bull Rush, leading up to Rhino Charge and Greater Bull Rush could really fit into what you are wanting to do here.
Optionally you might want to pick up dodge & mobility to look towards combat patrol.. but that would really be for building up one BIG attack rather than several claws as you seem to be looking towards.
-James
I thought I remembered that a mount had to be at least one size category larger than you, but I can't find that rule now. I don't know if it got left behind in 3.5 or whether I'm just not finding it. But something to check on.
I certainly wouldn't let a medium humanoid use another medium humanoid as a mount in my game - if it was a quadruped, I'd consider it.
I thought he meant the spell mount.
I was replying to Nigrescence wrote: The general plan is that I'll be riding my Eidolon as an ill-suited mount (so -5 to Ride checks, unless I'm missing something else). I should have quoted that in my post.
james maissen wrote: Let me start with this.
I would rethink the following spells: Lesser Rejuvenate Eidolon, Summon Eidolon and Evolution Surge.
Instead of the former I would suggest that you consider Mount, Unfetter, or Unseen Servant as any of these should see better use for you. Personally I'd go with Unseen Servant for now and unfetter later (using wands for the rest), but you might wish to use mount for a while until overland flight is an option.
I would not really go with summon eidolon as a spell known either, but rather use a scroll of it (unless you believe that casting it will become a frequent occurance?) You will want ways to cast see invis, glitterdust (just to remove invis threats), and wind wall. These are all possible via scrolls. Likewise a scroll of slow in a few levels simply for negating enemy haste spells. For now 200gp is a bit steep for that. Since you've invested a deal into the eidolon's str you might consider bull's strength until a STR item (ioun stone) becomes viable for it.
As to third level spell (as you only get one/day) I would look at dimension door, black tentacles, greater invisibility and even wall of fire as none are saved based but can be game changers. You haven't told us what the rest of the group will be though, so perhaps these things are covered.
As to items: There is a 'cracked' ioun stone that let's you store 1 level of spells in it. I would suggest that you consider this to augment your poor UMD score for gravity bow. This way you would have a sure fire way to cast the spell (take a few rounds to UMD the wand then put it in the stone, then cast it from the stone as a sure fire standard action rather than a 25%).
Likewise...
Well, I was trying to make a build that works ok on its own. I suppose I honestly don't need to have Rejuvenate Eidolon at all. I really would want to have Summon Eidolon, though. It's an impromptu way to bring him around if we're assaulted in our sleep, and a way to bring him around if he's been slain. While I'm asking, I suppose this question can decide whether I keep it or swap out the spell (because I CAN just use the Summmoning SLA after all). The spell Summon Eidolon says it can summon him even if he's been sent back to his home plane by damage. It also says it works as if the Summoner normally summoned him (except for the explicitly noted exceptions). Does that mean if he has been slain today, and I use this spell to summon him, he appears with half his hit points (and, obviously, I still can't summon him normally until tomorrow, but I can still summon with the spell)? That seems to be what the RAW indicates, which is precisely why I chose it. Otherwise just a few scrolls of it will be more than enough.
I'm planning to learn Unfetter when I know 6 1st-level spells. I might carry a scroll or four of it, though. While I like Unseen Servant (and always have), I'm somewhat questionable of its efficacy in our sessions.
I can just forget about Gravity Bow for a while, honestly. It's not important at all for me. It's there only for situations when we can prepare ahead of time and I think the extra damage will be needed.
I should get a scroll or three of Wind Wall, and maybe Glitterdust as well. You're right. This summoner will probably be traveling with a Wizard if I use him.
That stone is a nice idea, and I may do that in the future.
I know black tentacles is beastly, and I actually had it selected before I changed things around. Perhaps I really should dump Evolution Surge, because it's mostly there for granting the Large evolution and SR. He'll be Large at next level anyway.
Ok, so I will remove Lesser Rejuvenate Eidolon and Evolution Surge.
If I added any of the first level ones you insisted, it would probably be Mount or Unfetter. Since Mount is mainly for traveling, and next level my guy could be a flying large means of travel for all of us (Drop the two STR evos for Large, and I get 2 evos to spend instead of 1 due to half-elf FC bonus, so his form is otherwise the same, or I could merely rely on the Lesser Evolution Surge for granting flight when we REALLY need it - so I can instead give him a Bite and then grant it Reach, to boost his threatened area by a lot, which is what I'm planning) so I'm unconcerned with not having Mount. Perhaps I'll add Unfetter back in (I had originally swapped it out for the Rejuvenate).
Next up, I might swap Bull's Strength in and Barkskin out. I don't really need to consume two actions for one encounter to boost AC, but I took Barkskin because it gives a nice stacking boost, AND it has a moderate duration, which is great if we're going to have at least one encounter within an hour of the other. It really isn't essential yet, though. Not until higher levels where that AC could really matter for my Eidolon's tanking abilities.
Finally, I'll remove Evolution Surge and get Black Tentacles. It's better than Wall of Fire, I think. I do plan to get Wall of Fire later, though, along with some other 3rd level spells.
With items, I'll just abandon the wand and get a few scrolls of more important things instead.
The main question I have is the Eidolon's third feat, though. I'd give him Lunge except his BAB doesn't qualify for it by the time he can get the third feat. I'm going for a multiple AoO battlefield control reach tank machine. When he has spare evos, I'll put them into the dex ability increase evo (still only 2 points with the Large evo) if I don't have spare natural attacks I can grant him. I don't want to do Weapon Focus (Claw) because his evolution can and probably will change in the future (then again, claws are the cheapest this guy can add for full efficiency of evo point distribution for primary natural attacks, as long as the number of attacks he has are even, so maybe I really should do that to boost his chance to hit).
He may end up tripping and such, given his crazy good CMB, and for just 1 evo point per, he can either push or pull (or both for 2 evo points) 5 ft away or towards him if he succeeds on a melee attack.
Thanks for your advice.
Bobson wrote: I thought I remembered that a mount had to be at least one size category larger than you, but I can't find that rule now. I don't know if it got left behind in 3.5 or whether I'm just not finding it. But something to check on.
I certainly wouldn't let a medium humanoid use another medium humanoid as a mount in my game - if it was a quadruped, I'd consider it.
Yeah, he's only going to be an ill-suited mount once I can add the Large evolution at next level. I think some of what I said got jumbled before I posted it. Sorry about that. The point is it's going to happen, and the size category will be at least one step away.
Nigrescence wrote: The main question I have is the Eidolon's third feat, though. Step Up would work very well with Combat Reflexes and Power Attack.
Rory wrote: Nigrescence wrote: The main question I have is the Eidolon's third feat, though. Step Up would work very well with Combat Reflexes and Power Attack.
Step Up's not really useful if you're going to have reach.
Nigrescence wrote: Well, I was trying to make a build that works ok on its own. I suppose I honestly don't need to have Rejuvenate Eidolon at all. I really would want to have Summon Eidolon, though.
How many times a day do you see yourself casting it? How many in a week?
I figure a scroll or 3 (at 200gp a pop) should handle the emergency situations like you describe. Meanwhile if the eidolon is going to be nuked a lot then it can be worth a spell known.
But I'd rather have bull's strength for now (as well as barkskin).
Nigrescence wrote:
While I like Unseen Servant (and always have), I'm somewhat questionable of its efficacy in our sessions.
I like it for policing weapons if you have someone who disarms, for administering potions to downed PCs, for triggering traps, etc.
If you don't move all that fast and let it keep up then it works as a known spell, otherwise plan on a wand.
Likewise mount right now is good for you, but after you level a little it's better as a wand. They make decent trap springers and last for 1hr/level.
Nigrescence wrote:
That stone is a nice idea, and I may do that in the future.
At 1k gold it's cheap and will let you use gravity bow for those times when you just have 1 round to buff (and don't need to drop any other spell). It's situational, but its a nice work around with your low UMD score.
Nigrescence wrote:
The main question I have is the Eidolon's third feat, though. I'd give him Lunge except his BAB doesn't qualify for it by the time he can get the third feat. I'm going for a multiple AoO battlefield control reach tank machine.
Decide if you want to go with one huge attack and look towards the feat Combat Patrol, or if you want the multiple push attempts from a slew of attacks.
I would look at the bull rush tree of feats as they seem to fit in well for you.
-James
james maissen wrote: How many times a day do you see yourself casting it? How many in a week? Honestly? I see it being used once every other day or so. We're probably going to face encounters with many more enemies we might normally get, and a higher CR total (with more higher CR enemies). It's brutal, but we tend to pull through quite well a lot of the time. Most of the other players seem to work hard on their optimization, so the DM has to challenge us. It results in a faster experience progression, though.
Chances are I may need it if it gets dismissed or banished, too (AND it has the nifty effect of being able to bring him back at half HP if he was slain in combat). No Summoner should be without this spell, I think, and I'm certainly never going to drop it.
james maissen wrote: But I'd rather have bull's strength for now (as well as barkskin). Well, it's Barkskin, Bull's Strength, or Haste. I can only have two. Frankly, Haste is looking like a stellar option as a level two spell. If I desperately need Bull's Strength, maybe I can ask the Cleric to pass it to my behemoth. There probably won't be a lot of convincing required because Bull's Strength on the guy would be a great boost, but having the other spells are... much nicer. Except Barkskin. I can wait to add Barkskin to my spell list, which is why I think it's the way it is. I'll talk to the Cleric, though. Chances are he's going to have a Bull's Strength prepared for someone anyway. So, I'll go with Barkskin.
james maissen wrote: I like it for policing weapons if you have someone who disarms, for administering potions to downed PCs, for triggering traps, etc.
If you don't move all that fast and let it keep up then it works as a known spell, otherwise plan on a wand.
Well, there isn't anyone who's playing a disarm-centric build (unless you count my Eidolon, since he'll easily be able to disarm outside of someone's threatened area, and it's hard to make an AoO when there's no target in range - unless I'm misunderstanding something).
If it comes to potions, I'll just do it myself or someone else will. A situation spell like that doesn't justify a spell known slot for a spontaneous caster like myself. Maybe when I get enough archery feats that I don't need to invest any more, I'll take Expanded Arcana to get additional spells known. In fact, as a Summoner, I can almost guarantee that I will end up doing that.
We also probably would move too fast for it, especially if we end up flying for even some period. Unseen Servant is nice, but it's nowhere near nice enough to justify taking it at the moment.
james maissen wrote: At 1k gold it's cheap and will let you use gravity bow for those times when you just have 1 round to buff (and don't need to drop any other spell). It's situational, but its a nice work around with your low UMD score. That's a good point, and I can always ask the friendly party Wizard to cast it into the item for me if he's feeling nice enough.
james maissen wrote: Decide if you want to go with one huge attack and look towards the feat Combat Patrol, or if you want the multiple push attempts from a slew of attacks. I do not want one huge attack. Even if I did, I would go for it via giving him a weapon (and he'd still get two claws since I'd grow arms just for the weapon meaning he'll get the best benefit). Also, if I gave him a weapon, I could put more evolution points into boosting his dex via the evolution and his skills. He could get more AoOs thanks to Combat Reflexes.
james maissen wrote: I would look at the bull rush tree of feats as they seem to fit in well for you. They seem nice... for a medium-sized fighter without extra reach. For a large creature with extra reach (so 15ft instead of 10ft, and moving up to 20ft instead of 15ft if I cast Enlarge Person to make him huge). I don't want to charge with my Eidolon, really. Because you have to go to the nearest legal square to hit, and due to his huge reach, it's better to step up into the enemies so that they either 5-foot-step away to avoid further pummels, or 5-foot-step to try to 5-foot-step again, meaning I burned one of their rounds, OR just move away and provoke an AoO. Really, Bull Rush may be nice, but it's not worth a feat on my Eidolon's limited list, in my honest opinion.
Maybe I should just go with Weapon Focus (Claw). What do you think? More hit on many attacks = golden in my opinion. Weapon Focus is good for someone with just one attack. For multiple attacks at full BAB it should be devastating, right? It might also be a good idea since he's only 3/4 BAB progression (technically 3/4 Hit Die progression and full BAB progression, but it's effectively 3/4 BAB).
james maissen wrote: Decide if you want to go with one huge attack and look towards the feat Combat Patrol, or if you want the multiple push attempts from a slew of attacks. The other thing is that Combat Patrol is moderately feat-intensive.
There's a chance I might take the feat Dodge, or the feat Improved Natural Armor, but it's just +1 AC and the difference between them is whether I value his Touch AC or his Flat-Footed AC more. Frankly, I think Touch AC is more valuable. It might be worth a feat at higher levels, but by then I can get him a Ring of Protection with a good bonus.
I want feats to improve his viability as a melee combatant with crazy good reach (even more if I give him a reach weapon).
Maybe I should invest in Exotic Weapon Proficiency.
I'm thinking either Fauchard or Meteor Hammer.
Fauchard will give a nice 18-20 x2 crit, and has reach AND trip, plus it's a cool weapon.
Meteor Hammer will give only 19-20 x2 crit, but it also has reach and trip, and he'll get a +1 shield bonus (which helps if I don't cast shield or can't cast it) if he wields it in fortress mode. With the Meteor Hammer, I can also use it to pull an enemy 5 ft closer with a trip attempt, making it absolutely prime for dragging people nearer to him who do not want to get within reach of his shorter attacks.
Of course, going with a weapon means that my natural attacks have a reduced chance to hit if he's using the weapon (iirc, it's -5 for all natural attacks, although I can't remember if the Eidolon's multiattack/multiweapon bonus feat ability reduces that to a -2 for natural attacks following a weapon). Of course, he could always... not use the weapon, merely keeping it as a tool for an increased threat range and to give him crazy good reach.
Thoughts? I suppose in either case, he'll want Weapon Focus for a natural attack, since he can only effectively go the weapon route later on after he can be innately Large through the evolution.
Basically, my guy is going to BE an area of effect battlefield control guy. If it's troublesome, I can always cast Reduce Person on him to make him Medium (since he'll only be Large - I'm not giving him Huge), but I can also cast Enlarge Person on him to make him Huge if that extra reach will be a great advantage.
I dont see how you can use your Eidolon as a Mount when its a Biped. I appologize if this was addressed in somone elses post.
Secondly why no precise shot on the Summoner?
Mojorat wrote: I dont see how you can use your Eidolon as a Mount when its a Biped. I appologize if this was addressed in somone elses post.
Secondly why no precise shot on the Summoner?
Well, the closest thing I could see was an ill-suited mount. Part of my post included asking if this was possible or fit under the jurisdiction of an ill-suited mount. Mounts that are actually mounts don't have a penalty at all. Hence why I thought that using something as a mount that isn't actually a mount fits under ill-suited mounts (-5 penalty to Ride checks). I asked for clarification.
I also don't have precise shot because it's situational and the whole point of my current build is to give the Eidolon incredibly good reach to act as battlefield control. If they take more than a 5ft step, they eat an attack, and may even get pushed or pulled 5ft in addition to that (this is the eventual goal, which I can get fairly soon) and he'll have attacks of opportunity to go around.
Precise Shot doesn't matter if they're not both in melee with each other. I checked the rules. If my Eidolon has reach to the enemy, but the enemy does not have reach back, the penalty wouldn't apply, so Precise Shot doesn't matter.
My Eidolon can also take a 5ft step if they're starting to creep in too close. Generally speaking, if I'm going to have to take the -4 penalty, then I should either be doing something other than shooting, or there are few enough remaining enemies that I may as well just continue shooting. Or I should shoot something else. Either way, my character's combat ability is always secondary to my Eidolon's.
Regarding shooting into melee (Page 184 Core):
If your target (or the part of your target you're aiming at, if it's a big target) is at least 10 feet away from the nearest friendly character, you can avoid the -4 penalty, even if the creature you're aiming at is engaged in melee with a friendly character.
My personal experience with precise shot isnt so much that that its situational that its a situation that happens /all/ the time. enough so that its effectively +4 to hit for all intents. I personally would take it over weapon focus every time.
As far as the mount bit i really dont think youc an do it at all, Its clear the only Eidolons intended to be ridden are Serpent and Quadiped.
it seems also strange that You dont have any archery penalties if it isnt intended to be ridden. but ive never looked p rules for an ill suited mount before.
Mojorat wrote: My personal experience with precise shot isnt so much that that its situational that its a situation that happens /all/ the time. enough so that its effectively +4 to hit for all intents. I personally would take it over weapon focus every time.
As far as the mount bit i really dont think youc an do it at all, Its clear the only Eidolons intended to be ridden are Serpent and Quadiped.
it seems also strange that You dont have any archery penalties if it isnt intended to be ridden. but ive never looked p rules for an ill suited mount before.
Well, not +4 to hit, but no penalties. I may as well take it. I can always get weapon focus later (or maybe I can give up rapid shot for ninth level - since the to hit is important for a 3/4 BAB class).
I kind of agree on not even allowing a Biped Eidolon as a mount, but I'm just wondering here. My only real plan is to walk alongside him, but I would like to know the rules for using him as a mount regardless (and if it's even possible).
There's nothing actually saying you can't use a charmed Giant as a mount... albeit an improvised and heavily ill-suited mount.
As far as I know, it's just that the Biped can't take the Mount evolution. It doesn't say that it can't be a mount, unless I recall incorrectly. The Mount evolution makes it be a combat-trained mount. So all base forms are ill-suited mounts normally?
Also, you DO have archery penalties if the mount is moving. If he's standing still you're fine (and I think a 5ft step doesn't count as moving for the penalty, but someone should verify that).
I don't think it's a case of the mount evolution making it a combat trained mount. it makes it mountable at all.
oh one more thing. your heirloom weapon cannot have a special material. it can also only be mighty if you can afford that at lvl 1 all other costs but. w have to be paid for. the lvl 7 wbl isnt relevant to this.
My initial reaction is "Why are you wasting a perfectly good caster on making a bad/mediocre archer?"
Mojorat wrote: I don't think it's a case of the mount evolution making it a combat trained mount. it makes it mountable at all. Possibly. I suspect that might be the case, but it seems to be very ambiguous, which is why I was wondering and asked. If I can get clarification on these particulars, it would be nice. I might not even play this guy, but he DOES bring up some good questions I think.
Mojorat wrote: oh one more thing. your heirloom weapon cannot have a special material. it can also only be mighty if you can afford that at lvl 1 all other costs but. w have to be paid for. the lvl 7 wbl isnt relevant to this. I understand that. I mentioned I can easily trade out Elven Reflexes for the Rich Parents trait (which would also fit into my character concept).
As for it not being of a special material, the trait doesn't indicate that at all. It just says that you pay the standard cost for the masterwork quality. No other restrictions are noted, but obviously you must be able to pay for it (so I should definitely trade out for Rich Parents) Darkwood is incredibly cheap and I picked it just for flavor anyway. I'm not attached to it, really.
Kamelguru wrote: My initial reaction is "Why are you wasting a perfectly good caster on making a bad/mediocre archer?" Several reasons.
He's only a moderately decent caster anyway, and his most important spells do not rely on a DC (although that does mean your grease and glitterdust if you select them have a lower DC than they might otherwise). You might as well ask why you'd waste a perfectly good caster on making a bad/mediocre archer to a Bard. They're not going to be bad or mediocre, they just won't be as stellar. They're still 3/4 BAB, and they have spells to enhance/offset the BAB divide.
I want to see how well it can be made to work. Frankly, I'm still of the opinion that giving all of your magic equipment to the Eidolon is the best thing to do.
It's fun, and I can do it, so I'll try. I'm curious and make odd builds sometimes, some of them weird just to see how trying it would work out. This isn't even a particularly weird one anyway.
For some more thoughts and some basic builds, check out the Summoners handbook here. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=184592
Lots of good info and loads of options and opinions.
This build is very similar to a build I just made for PFS. There are a bit more restrictive rules in PFS, but still, the tactics and the build are surprisingly similar.
My build chose to focus on the Heavy Repeating Crossbow (HRC) as my "Ancestral Arms" weapon. I couldn't afford it for the very first few adventures, but I owned one before LvL 2.
I too didn't take Precise Shot as a feat (feat starved at lvl 1) but also because I intend to give my Eidolon the Push evolution at lvl 2. He has reach at lvl 1. I did this because I too like the idea of controlling the battlefield and moving people around. That said, it will be my LvL 3 feat if i notice it doesnt work so well...In PFS you are doing a lot of tight dungeon crawl type adventures, so SOMEONE will almost always be standing next to the bad guys.
As for your character, since your focus is the composite bow, I would keep the STR where it is although your CHA suffers for it. My build left STR at 7 (HRC doesn't need much to wield properly) and I don't need to worry about it for damage.
My build is here.
Not saying do what I did, but we have remarkably similar builds and strategies.
I enjoy the hell out of this character.
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