Big 6 as slotless enhancements


Homebrew and House Rules

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

I haven't playtested this, just considering and would like some more thoughts.

Suppose you could pay 1k to get yourself magically enchanted, such that you always have a +1 Resistance bonus to saving throws (ala the Cloak of Resistance).
Likewise with the rest of the big 6 (weapon/armor/shield/ring of protection/amulet of natural armor/ability score boosters).

The problem this solves: Boring but essentially mandatory items no longer take up slots, but we're not messing with WBL since it's still part of the costs. But then they can wear some other magical cloak/amulet/weapon with unique abilities.

Possible issue: What about TWF/weapon throwing? Those guys have to enchant all of their weapons, and this way the weapon bonus they got on themselves applies to all of their weapons!
Response: That actually seems like a feature. These fighting styles could use a boost, I don't see any reason for them to pay more when 2-handing is so strong already.

If you get special abilities that don't apply to some of the weapons you use.
Example: You're an archer and you get +1 Distance for 8k. This applies to your bow (and crossbow/gun/daggers etc) when you use them, but a longsword is only +1 in your hands.

If you use an item that has bonuses that you've got on yourself, you can use the item's bonuses or your own (your choice), but you can use special abilities regardless.
Example: You are bolstered such that weapons are +3 in your hands, and you're wielding a sword that's +1 Flaming and can cast Scorching Ray. You can use it as a +3 sword or a +1 Flaming sword, but you can use its ability to cast scorching ray regardless.

Are there other possibly unforeseen consequences? Have I been clear in explaining my thought?

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

Whoops, meant to put this in Homebrew. Tagged to have it moved.

Liberty's Edge

I came up with a version of this a long while back.

These days I'd probably replace the 'Trick' levels with a +2 Enhancement Bonus to one stat at 5th, two more at 9th (stacking with the 5th level bonus), three more at 13th (also stacking), and four more at 17th (again, with stacking), though I'd cap the bonus to any individual stat at +6. Call it 'Prowess' or 'Aptitude' or something else like that.

But yeah, this seems like a workable thing.

Sovereign Court

I've made a version of this in the past as well.


I use a slightly altered version of the heroic distinction system personally which I've found works very well actually. Added some extras to help various builds be a little easier.

Deflection bonuses are the only ones I leave for magical items generally. Has overall had a very nice impact on the game, allowing for more unusual, custom, and interesting items in those slots that would usually be tied to the same ho-hum items.

Heroic Distinctions (Aleron Version):
The game will be using 'Heroic Distinctions'. Starting at level 3 you may choose 1 heroic distinction you qualify for at each level. At 8th level you may choose 2 heroic distinctions you qualify for at each level. Please note Training Bonuses to not stack with Enhancement Bonuses, except in the cases where these bonuses would normally stack with magical enhancements (IE Magus’ Arcane Pool enhancement to a weapon).

Note: Weapons do not require the regular +1 enhancement before applying other properties due to the use of heroic distinctions. A Flaming sword (longsword with only the flaming property) is possible under these rules. A weapon still must be masterwork before any enchanting can be done.

Note 2: Masterwork weapons bonus does not stack with the Offensive Training distinctions. Masterwork armors do not stack with the Defensive Training distinctions.

Note 3: Offensive training bonuses apply to all CMB checks as well.

Defensive Training: The character receives a +1 training bonus to the effective armor bonus worn and reduces the ACP by 1 of any one type of armor (Note: Unarmored character may select clothing and treat it as armor, but this would not stack with the bonus from Bracers of Armor).
Improved Defensive Training: The character receives a +2 training bonus (+3 training bonus to AC if unarmored/cloth armor) to the effective armor bonus, reduces the ACP by 2 for any one type of armor worn. A character must be at least 6th level and have the Defensive Training distinction before selecting this distinction.
Greater Defensive Training The character receives a +3 training bonus (+4 training bonus to AC if unarmored/cloth armor)to the effective armor bonus, reduces the ACP by 2, and reduces the movement penalty by 5 feet for any one type of armor worn. A character must be at least 9th level and have the Improved Defensive Training distinction before selecting this distinction.
Penultimate Defensive Training: The character receives a +4 training bonus (+6 training bonus to AC if unarmored/cloth armor)to the effective armor bonus, reduces the ACP by 3, and reduces the movement penalty by 5 feet for any one type of armor worn. A character must be at least 12th level and have the Greater Defensive Training distinction before selecting this distinction.
Perfected Defensive Training: The character receives a +5 training bonus (+8 training bonus to AC if unarmored/cloth armor) to the effective armor bonus, reduces the ACP by 3, and reduces the movement penalty by 10 feet for any one type of armor worn. A character must be at least 15th level and have the Penultimate Defensive Training distinction before selecting this distinction.

Shield Training: The character receives a +1 training bonus to the effective armor bonus of any one type of shield worn.
Greater Shield Training: The character receives a +3 training bonus to the effective armor bonus of any one type of shield worn. A character must be at least 7th level and have the Shield Training distinction before selecting this distinction.
Perfected Shield Training: The character receives a +5 training bonus to the effective armor bonus of any one type of shield worn. A character must be at least 14th level and have the Greater Shield Training distinction before selecting this distinction.

Offensive Training: The character receives a +1 training bonus to attacks and damage with a category of weapons (use the fighter weapon training for how to break down the weapon categories).
Improved Offensive Training: The character receives a +2 training bonus to attacks and damage with a category of weapons. A character must be at least 6th level and have the Offensive Training distinction before selecting this distinction.
Greater Offensive Training: The character receives a +3 training bonus to attacks and damage with a category of weapons. . A character must be at least 9th level and have the Offensive Training distinction before selecting this distinction.
Penultimate Offensive Training: The character receives a +4 training bonus to attacks and damage with a category of weapons. A character must be at least 12th level and have the Greater Offensive Training distinction before selecting this distinction.
Perfected Offensive Training: The character receives a +5 training bonus to attacks and damage with a category of weapons. A character must be at least 15th level and have the Penultimate Offensive Training distinction before selecting this distinction.

Ambidexterity: When the character is fighting with two weapons, they reduce the penalty by 2 to their attack rolls.
Perfect Ambidexterity: When the character is fighting with two weapons, they reduce the penalty by 4 to their attack rolls (this cannot reduce the penalty further than 0). A character must be 7th level and have the Ambidexterity distinction before selecting this distinction.

Maneuver Training: Select one type of maneuver (Feint, Trip, Dirty Trick, Overrun, Drag, Grapple, Reposition, Steal, Disarm, or Bull Rush). The character gains that maneuver's 'Improved' feat as a free bonus feat. You don't have to meet the feat's requirements.
Greater Maneuver Training: The character gains the 'Greater' feat for the type of maneuver they selected for maneuver training. The character does not need to meet the feat's requirements. A character must be at least 6th level and have the Maneuver Training distinction before selecting this distinction.

Lucky: The character receives a +1 resistance bonus to their Fortitude, Reflex, and Willpower saves.
Blessed: The character receives a +3 resistance bonus to their Fortitude, Reflex, and Willpower saves. A character must be at least 7th level and have the Lucky distinction before selecting this distinction.
Exalted: The character receives a +5 resistance bonus to their Fortitude, Reflex, and Willpower saves. A character must be at least 13th level and have the Blessed distinction before selecting this distinction.

Nimble: The character gains a +1 dodge bonus to AC.
Artful: The character’s dodge bonus increases to +2. A character must be at least 7th level and have the Nimble distinctions before selecting this distinction.
Deft: The character’s dodge bonus increases to +3. A character must be at least 14th level and have the Artful distinction before selecting this distinction.

Hardened: The character's natural armor bonus improves by +1.
Grizzled: The character's natural armor bonus increases to +3. A character must be at least 7th level and have the Hardened distinction before selecting this distinction.
Iron Skinned: The character's natural armor bonus increases +5. A character must be at least 14th level and have the Grizzled distinction before selecting this distinction.

Strong: The character receives a +2 training bonus to strength. A character must be at least 5th level before selecting this distinction.
Dextrous: The character receives a +2 training bonus to dexterity. A character must be at least 5th level before selecting this distinction.
Hearty: The character receives a +2 training bonus to constitution. A character must be at least 5th level before selecting this distinction.
Intelligent: The character receives a +2 training bonus to intelligence. A character must be at least 5th level before selecting this distinction.
Wise: The character receives a +2 training bonus to wisdom. A character must be at least 5th level before selecting this distinction.
Charismatic: The character receives a +2 training bonus to charisma. A character must be at least 5th level before selecting this distinction.
Mighty: +4 Training bonus to strength. A character must be at least 10th level and have the Strong distinction before selecting this distinction.
Adroit: +4 Training bonus to dexterity. A character must be at least 10th level and have the Dextrous distinction before selecting this distinction.
Unyielding: +4 Training bonus to constitution. A character must be at least 10th level and have the Hearty distinction before selecting this distinction.
Inspired: +4 Training bonus to intelligence. A character must be at least 10th level and have the Intelligent distinction before selecting this distinction.
Attuned: +4 Training bonus to wisdom. A character must be at least 10th level and have the Wise distinction before selecting this distinction.
Majestic: +4 Training bonus to charisma. A character must be at least 10th level and have the Charismatic distinction before selecting this distinction.
Herculean: +6 Training bonus to strength. A character must be at least 15th level and have the Mighty distinction before selecting this distinction.
Alacritous: +6 Training bonus to dexterity. A character must be at least 15th level and have the Adroit distinction before selecting this distinction.
Titanic: +6 Training bonus to constitution. A character must be at least 15th level and have the Unyielding distinction before selecting this distinction.
Brilliant: +6 Training bonus to intelligence. A character must be at least 15th level and have the Inspired distinction before selecting this distinction.
Enlightened: +6 Training bonus to wisdom. A character must be at least 15th level and have the Attuned distinction before selecting this distinction.
Awe Inspiring: +6 Training bonus to charisma. A character must be at least 15th level and have the Majestic distinction before selecting this distinction.

Magical Training: The character receives a +1 trait bonus to concentration checks.
Improved Magical Training: The character receives a +2 trait bonus to concentration checks. A character must be at least 6th level and have the Magical Training distinction before selecting this distinction.
Greater Magical Training: The character receives a +3 trait bonus to concentration checks. A character must be at least 9th level and have the Improved Magical Training distinction before selecting this distinction.
Penultimate Magical Training: The character receives a +4 trait bonus to concentration checks and a +1 trait bonus to the DCs of their spells. A character must be at least 12th level and have the Greater Magical Training distinction before selecting this distinction.
Perfected Magical Training: The character receives a +5 trait bonus to concentration checks and a +2 trait bonus to the DCs of their spells. A character must be at least 15th level and have the Perfect Magical Training distinction before selecting this distinction.


I've thought about doing away with the state-bonusing in favor of a surge mechanic.


I would say that armor and shields should stay, partially due to the preexisting balance issues. Casters have to abandon their hands slot if they want AC enhancement. Similarly, 2 handers do not usually enjoy shield enhancement.

Weapons are also fairly straight forward, so leaving them alone seems fine too.

EDIT- another issue with removing the enhancements from weapons and armor- sundering. They are more resistant to sundering due to that mechanic. And if the enhancement is no longer in the weapon itself...then the only loot they provide is a ton of masterwork stuff. That means the typical argument against sunder- you lose the big shiny flaming loot, is gone. So your players would be extremely encouraged to use sunder constantly after low levels.

But yeah, the typical amulet/cloak/ring/belt/headband thing seems like it can be toyed with. Generally, those are less direct enhancements than making a magical sword sharper or magical armor more sturdy. Since they are just that vague, nebulous application of +'s, then sure, disconnecting the typical enhancement from the item slot seems fine.

Personally, I like enchanted tattoos for this. Having the biggest, baddest, most well equipped guys covered in arcane tattoos seems visually interesting, and it gives your world a bit of flavor. Not everyone can recognize a +3 ring of protection, but everyone can tell when a big angry man is covered in highly expensive and intricate artwork (when it isn't covered, I suppose- you could have them concealed on the back- that could be a large issue in your setting).

Liberty's Edge

lemeres wrote:
I would say that armor and shields should stay, partially due to the preexisting balance issues. Casters have to abandon their hands slot if they want AC enhancement. Similarly, 2 handers do not usually enjoy shield enhancement.

My system actually handles this pretty well, IMO. You only gain the Enhancement bonuses to armor or shields if you have and are using armor or a shield. Well, except for Monks, because they need a bit of a boost.

lemeres wrote:
EDIT- another issue with removing the enhancements from weapons and armor- sundering. They are more resistant to sundering due to that mechanic. And if the enhancement is no longer in the weapon itself...then the only loot they provide is a ton of masterwork stuff. That means the typical argument against sunder- you lose the big shiny flaming loot, is gone. So your players would be extremely encouraged to use sunder constantly after low levels.

And again, my system involves magic weapons. They just don't have enhancement bonuses, only special weapon properties like Flaming or Courageous.

That does make them easier to sunder (though you could just grab adamantine and make that harder again), but still costs you a cool item if you do it too much.


As far as the Big 6, I have two thoughts:

* The stat enhancers, the cloaks of resistance, the rings of protection, and the amulets of natural armor should go. IMO, magic items ought to let you do cool, interesting things. A Cloak of Resistance +1 is kind of ho-hum, IMO, while the Cloak of Fiery Vanishing is kind of fun.

I've toyed with it, and I think I would compensate for these items' absence in two ways:

1) In place of the stat-enhancing items, I would run with a 25-point buy or even a 30-point buy, but let my players know up front that they're not going to find the Headband of Vast Intelligence +6 anytime soon.

2) In lieu of cloaks of resistance, amulets of natural armor, and so forth, I'd introduce a per-day surge mechanic (either modeled on Hero Points or the mythic surge ability) to allow players to temporarily increase their AC or saving throw.

* I would remodel the +X armor and weapons as nonmagical items. Instead of magic, additional plusses would represent masterwork items of increasing quality. Magical items would be those with special properties -- flaming, Chicken Transformation, and so forth.


In regards to sundering:

Why not just let the item count as if it were the magical equivalent in the hands of someone with an innate enhancement? A sword might just be a sword and is broken like a sword, except in the hands of someone with magic.

Verdant Wheel

pennywit wrote:
I've thought about doing away with the state-bonusing in favor of a surge mechanic.

please explain

Sovereign Court

How about like this? You can get an innate shield/armor/weapon bonus, but you actually have to be wielding one to apply the bonus. So that as soon as you pick up any shield, your AC suddenly goes up a lot, because you're really good at using shields.

Then, Sunder becomes a much nicer maneuver. Not as horrible when it's used against you, because the monetary setback isn't as bad. And not so bad to use, because you're not destroying all that much loot. So the "cost"-effectiveness rate of Sunder becomes a lot better.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

To clarify, you still need to have an appropriate item to focus that magic that's in you.
You need to be wearing something in your neck slot to get the natural armor, or use a shield to get the shield bonus. For armor, either armor or bracers will do.


i also toyed around a passive bonuses by level systems.

but not for the big six.

only for stats+resistance.

it worked quite nicely (although i dont recall the exact progression) but required a bit of tinkering later on with wbl cause players were getting too much free stuff

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

I'm not proposing making these bonuses inherently gained by level up. To avoid having to redo WBL, these bonuses are still purchased (or gained as loot).

Sovereign Court

@Petty: that's kinda what I did. I cut loot by half, and you get points with which to purchase built-in bonuses of the Big Six type at the same purchasing power as if you spent 50% of WBL on Big Six.


rainzax wrote:
pennywit wrote:
I've thought about doing away with the state-bonusing in favor of a surge mechanic.
please explain

Not something I've thought out in detail, but maybe a system similar to mythic surges or hero points.

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