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NobodysHome wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:

Just got into a tiff about math online.

According to some, PEMDAS was either taught to me wrong, I am ancient somehow, or some combination thereof.

It could explain some of the difficulties I had with math growing up, and why I find math teacher to be shorthand for "b@+$%#$& artist".

I'd love to hear how it was taught to you, since I have some knowledge on the subject.

And yeah, after dealing with the math teachers at Albany High and DVC, I am really disappointed in the state of mathematics education.

If you're of the opinion that there's only one right way to reach a conclusion, you shouldn't be teaching. It's perfectly legitimate to say, "Since we have been studying factoring, use factoring to find the solutions to x^2-3x+2 = 0."

But if you say, "Find the solutions to x^2-3x+2 = 0" and you see the student just tried x=-2, x=-1, x=0, x=1, and x=2 and got the right answers, you have to give them credit, because *you* didn't specify HOW they should do it.

This.

Apparently I am over 100 years old, or the people who taught me math were. As I was one of the last generation taught by my teachers in public school who were among the first generation themselves to stay on teaching loooong after they should have retired because they had awesome benefits, it is *quite* possible the information I had was out of date. That said, it would not have gone well at all if I, at 10 years old, jumped up and screamed that my teacher was wrong and they were giving me outdated information.


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....it's not outdated. It's vintage.


Freehold DM wrote:

This.

Apparently I am over 100 years old, or the people who taught me math were. As I was one of the last generation taught by my teachers in public school who were among the first generation themselves to stay on teaching loooong after they should have retired because they had awesome benefits, it is *quite* possible the information I had was out of date. That said, it would not have gone well at all if I, at 10 years old, jumped up and screamed that my teacher was wrong and they were giving me outdated information.

From a mathematician: You have the right to be pissy.

It's a "fake" problem designed to make people feel bad about their math skills, and such things seriously piss me off because they make people even MORE suspicious of math.

The "problem" with PEMDAS is that it should really be PEMA, because from a mathematical standpoint multiplication and division are the exact same thing, as are addition and subtraction. But try explaining that to a 10-year-old. So PEMDAS is still used -- my kids learned it.

So that video is literally someone intentionally designing a problem such that if you learned PEMDAS in school you'd get it wrong and they could make fun of you for it.

Such a person should be spanked in a public square and banned from ever using mathematics again.

EDIT: Let's put it this way: If they put that equation in a formal paper it would be rejected as unclear. So what they're really proving is that they're incompetent at telling other people what they mean, making them poor mathematicians.


Honestly, BigNorseWolf has the right of it: PEMDAS and everything else is nothing more than an agreement among mathematicians that "this is the way we're going to do it". And people look for edge cases and pretend they're smart. And nobody ever likes those people.


NobodysHome wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:

This.

Apparently I am over 100 years old, or the people who taught me math were. As I was one of the last generation taught by my teachers in public school who were among the first generation themselves to stay on teaching loooong after they should have retired because they had awesome benefits, it is *quite* possible the information I had was out of date. That said, it would not have gone well at all if I, at 10 years old, jumped up and screamed that my teacher was wrong and they were giving me outdated information.

From a mathematician: You have the right to be pissy.

It's a "fake" problem designed to make people feel bad about their math skills, and such things seriously piss me off because they make people even MORE suspicious of math.

The "problem" with PEMDAS is that it should really be PEMA, because from a mathematical standpoint multiplication and division are the exact same thing, as are addition and subtraction. But try explaining that to a 10-year-old. So PEMDAS is still used -- my kids learned it.

So that video is literally someone intentionally designing a problem such that if you learned PEMDAS in school you'd get it wrong and they could make fun of you for it.

Such a person should be spanked in a public square and banned from ever using mathematics again.

EDIT: Let's put it this way: If they put that equation in a formal paper it would be rejected as unclear. So what they're really proving is that they're incompetent at telling other people what they mean, making them poor mathematicians.

This will be unpopular, but if you cannot explain it, then the concept should likely be abandoned.


Freehold DM wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:
The "problem" with PEMDAS is that it should really be PEMA, because from a mathematical standpoint multiplication and division are the exact same thing, as are addition and subtraction. But try explaining that to a 10-year-old. So PEMDAS is still used -- my kids learned it.
This will be unpopular, but if you cannot explain it, then the concept should likely be abandoned.

"Line up in height order" is easy. "Line up in the order of the importance of your parents' careers" is subjective and ridiculous and depends on how the teacher defines things.

You can't do math without agreeing on an order in which to do it, so someone had to define that order. Mathematicians did. Abandoning order of operations isn't an option. Teaching it better is. Since PEMDAS isn't strictly true, stop teaching it as if it is.


Honestly, you're picking at a pet peeve of mine because I see the same thing in programming: Java is a nice, strict language: You have to declare your variables, clearly state what you mean when you're calling a function, and put a semicolon at the end of every line to make it clear to the compiler what you're doing.

Guess what? It also makes the code much easier to read to other people, and prevents unintentional coding errors.

So along comes Groovy, an offshoot of Java that gets rid of all those requirements for explicit declarations, guesses at what you mean when you call a function, and doesn't require semicolons.

I hate it.

I feel the same way about mathematical formulae: If I can't tell at a glance exactly what you expect me to do and in what order, then you wrote a poor formula, and if I misinterpret it that's your fault.

Shadow Lodge

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“Instructions unclear, dick stuck in fan.”


i'd fave that, TOZ, but . . . . for some reason, i can't express any support for it . . . .

solidarity within the Bro Code, or something?

Grand Lodge

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While it is important to remember that the reader is also responsible for making the effort to understand, the author is likewise responsible for any ambiguity.


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Alfredo: Are you in charge here, or former coworker?

Me: That depends. Is someone angry or do they want to shower me with praise?

Alfredo: The second one!

Me: Then definitely me!


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You know you've been at a company too long when your first chore of the afternoon is, "Purge all emails over 10 years old."


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TOZ wrote:
“Instructions unclear, dick stuck in fan.”

If I had a nickel for every time that happened I would have an unacceptable number of nickels.


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TOZ wrote:
“Instructions unclear, dick stuck in fan.”

What if your instructions were to stick your dick in the fan?


NobodysHome wrote:
But if you say, "Find the solutions to x^2-3x+2 = 0" and you see the student just tried x=-2, x=-1, x=0, x=1, and x=2 and got the right answers, you have to give them credit, because *you* didn't specify HOW they should do it.

Proof that, while not always the most efficient method, brute force will get the job done.


David M Mallon wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:
But if you say, "Find the solutions to x^2-3x+2 = 0" and you see the student just tried x=-2, x=-1, x=0, x=1, and x=2 and got the right answers, you have to give them credit, because *you* didn't specify HOW they should do it.
Proof that, while not always the most efficient method, brute force will get the job done.

isn't that really how those get solved? Besides the overly complicated quadratic equation no one uses that part was just kinda do it.


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OK. Maybe I am built different.

I was in a lighthearted event in FFXIV and one of the participating players mentioned that she was trying to save up to buy some in-game housing. I asked how much, and everyone said it was only 20 million gil. I've been playing for YEARS, so that's more than pocket change but hardly a ton. So I started handing her millions of gil.

And all the other players went NUTS and said it was the most amazing act of kindness they'd ever seen in an MMORPG.

Really? Giving away a bunch of imaginary currency is "amazing"?

I thought I was being nice, and kind to a newer player, which is what you're SUPPOSED to do to encourage people to play a game you love.

Apparently I was WAY out of line... in a good way.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
NobodysHome wrote:

OK. Maybe I am built different.

I was in a lighthearted event in FFXIV and one of the participating players mentioned that she was trying to save up to buy some in-game housing. I asked how much, and everyone said it was only 20 million gil. I've been playing for YEARS, so that's more than pocket change but hardly a ton. So I started handing her millions of gil.

And all the other players went NUTS and said it was the most amazing act of kindness they'd ever seen in an MMORPG.

Really? Giving away a bunch of imaginary currency is "amazing"?

I thought I was being nice, and kind to a newer player, which is what you're SUPPOSED to do to encourage people to play a game you love.

Apparently I was WAY out of line... in a good way.

So... standard NH on a Wednesday?


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The kids are halfway through their camp adventure. We have heard absolutely nothing in three days, which is good, because they only call you if your kid is sick or in trouble, WW is at a thing, I've been in my pajamas since 7, eating fries loaded with chorizo and queso and watching Breaking Bad.

To be fair, I've also cleaned a garbage bag full of crap out of Hermione's room, pulled the linens off both their beds, and am on the second load of laundry.

Which is as close as I get to doing nothing.


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lisamarlene wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:

OK. Maybe I am built different.

I was in a lighthearted event in FFXIV and one of the participating players mentioned that she was trying to save up to buy some in-game housing. I asked how much, and everyone said it was only 20 million gil. I've been playing for YEARS, so that's more than pocket change but hardly a ton. So I started handing her millions of gil.

And all the other players went NUTS and said it was the most amazing act of kindness they'd ever seen in an MMORPG.

Really? Giving away a bunch of imaginary currency is "amazing"?

I thought I was being nice, and kind to a newer player, which is what you're SUPPOSED to do to encourage people to play a game you love.

Apparently I was WAY out of line... in a good way.

So... standard NH on a Wednesday?

You know me TOO well...


lisamarlene wrote:

The kids are halfway through their camp adventure. We have heard absolutely nothing in three days, which is good, because they only call you if your kid is sick or in trouble, WW is at a thing, I've been in my pajamas since 7, eating fries loaded with chorizo and queso and watching Breaking Bad.

To be fair, I've also cleaned a garbage bag full of crap out of Hermione's room, pulled the linens off both their beds, and am on the second load of laundry.

Which is as close as I get to doing nothing.

Breaking Bad is Impus Major's all-time favorite series.

Though they're ripping through The Boys right now and loving it...


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NobodysHome wrote:
lisamarlene wrote:

The kids are halfway through their camp adventure. We have heard absolutely nothing in three days, which is good, because they only call you if your kid is sick or in trouble, WW is at a thing, I've been in my pajamas since 7, eating fries loaded with chorizo and queso and watching Breaking Bad.

To be fair, I've also cleaned a garbage bag full of crap out of Hermione's room, pulled the linens off both their beds, and am on the second load of laundry.

Which is as close as I get to doing nothing.

Breaking Bad is Impus Major's all-time favorite series.

Though they're ripping through The Boys right now and loving it...

I had never watched it.

Then Better Call Saul happened, and I got hooked, and I had to pause watching that in the middle of the final season to finally go back and start watching BB so I could understand it properly. Now I'm at the end of season 2. It's really weird seeing Q pretend to be human.


Well spock. I'm on my way up to the Oklahoma border which is a good hour and a half drive because Teensy Valeros just got himself kicked out of summer camp. If I'm lucky I'll be home and in bed somewhere between 2:00 and 2:30 and I have to be back at work at 8:00. This is going to be fun.


lisamarlene wrote:
Well spock. I'm on my way up to the Oklahoma border which is a good hour and a half drive because Teensy Valeros just got himself kicked out of summer camp. If I'm lucky I'll be home and in bed somewhere between 2:00 and 2:30 and I have to be back at work at 8:00. This is going to be fun.

Holy carp! Good luck!


Well crap.


They call me "007" at work.

0 effort.
0 competence.
7 bathroom breaks.


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Home.
I made it to Denison and back in a skosh over three hours.
Tired.


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NobodysHome wrote:

OK. Maybe I am built different.

I was in a lighthearted event in FFXIV and one of the participating players mentioned that she was trying to save up to buy some in-game housing. I asked how much, and everyone said it was only 20 million gil. I've been playing for YEARS, so that's more than pocket change but hardly a ton. So I started handing her millions of gil.

And all the other players went NUTS and said it was the most amazing act of kindness they'd ever seen in an MMORPG.

Really? Giving away a bunch of imaginary currency is "amazing"?

I thought I was being nice, and kind to a newer player, which is what you're SUPPOSED to do to encourage people to play a game you love.

Apparently I was WAY out of line... in a good way.

Probably there is a magical threshold in their minds where the line between spare change and amazing generosity lies. And while it might be imaginary in terms of purchasing power, it represents a real-world time and (a degree of) effort spent by the player.

In Lord Of The Rings Online, a lot of people gives away nice things, but they rarely come to the "oh, wow, you are giving away WHAT/HOW MUCH?!" level—most of the worthwhile things is bound to character/account.

Before the overhaul of Legendary Item system in Lord Of The Rings Online some time ago, I occasionally forged end-game* legendary weapons for random players for free just because they were running with crappy ones and I had spare legendary emblems to craft them—all of my existing characters already had theirs. The price of legendary emblems fluctuated between "someone is reaching level 100 with bunch of new alts and buys them out" and "everyone and their dog raven dropped one of those in Pelargir battle".

*well, technically they were level 100 first age weapons, when the cap was around 120, and the wielder had then to put a lot of their own work to upgrade it to the actual end-game capacities but it was the best thing a weaponsmith could make for your primary weapon long term.


lisamarlene wrote:
Well spock. I'm on my way up to the Oklahoma border which is a good hour and a half drive because Teensy Valeros just got himself kicked out of summer camp. If I'm lucky I'll be home and in bed somewhere between 2:00 and 2:30 and I have to be back at work at 8:00. This is going to be fun.

What did he do?


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
NobodysHome wrote:

OK. Maybe I am built different.

I was in a lighthearted event in FFXIV and one of the participating players mentioned that she was trying to save up to buy some in-game housing. I asked how much, and everyone said it was only 20 million gil. I've been playing for YEARS, so that's more than pocket change but hardly a ton. So I started handing her millions of gil.

And all the other players went NUTS and said it was the most amazing act of kindness they'd ever seen in an MMORPG.

Really? Giving away a bunch of imaginary currency is "amazing"?

I thought I was being nice, and kind to a newer player, which is what you're SUPPOSED to do to encourage people to play a game you love.

Apparently I was WAY out of line... in a good way.

I have done similar on WoW when it's painfully obvious someone is trying to be as inexpensive and unassuming as possible. Altruism is a lost art from a bygone time.


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Well, today's the day when our tin-plated dictator is likely to "lay down the law" and mandate that we go to the office 2 days a week no matter what.

My main job right now is recording and editing audio and creating animated videos.

Home Office: Two 25" monitors, stereo speakers, and a podcast-quality mic, in a quiet neighborhood with little to no outside noise and the ability to ask everyone in the house to be quiet whenever I'm recording.

Work Cubicle: One 14" monitor (you're supposed to use your laptop monitor as a second screen if you need it), laptop speakers, laptop mic, in a cubicle that renders audio editing impossible without headphones (that they don't provide).

So... my SVP is mandating that I lose roughly 30% productivity so that he can... what? Have human beings in a building?

What a stupid, stupid waste...


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NobodysHome wrote:

Well, today's the day when our tin-plated dictator is likely to "lay down the law" and mandate that we go to the office 2 days a week no matter what.

My main job right now is recording and editing audio and creating animated videos.

Home Office: Two 25" monitors, stereo speakers, and a podcast-quality mic, in a quiet neighborhood with little to no outside noise and the ability to ask everyone in the house to be quiet whenever I'm recording.

Work Cubicle: One 14" monitor (you're supposed to use your laptop monitor as a second screen if you need it), laptop speakers, laptop mic, in a cubicle that renders audio editing impossible without headphones (that they don't provide).

So... my SVP is mandating that I lose roughly 30% productivity so that he can... what? Have human beings in a building?

What a stupid, stupid waste...

You like to have a paperwork backup, right?

Maybe write an e-mail to whoever it will be most appropriate listing your current set-up and asking to be provided with comparable tools in the office. That's for the moment when someone starts complaining on your drop of productivity/quality, you can show them you weren't given adequate tools to do your jobs.

It would be nice if someone looked on your request decided that it costs money and that giving your exception is based on avoiding that cost, but, obviously, taking a reasonable course of action is a path the company already missed...


Drejk wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:

Well, today's the day when our tin-plated dictator is likely to "lay down the law" and mandate that we go to the office 2 days a week no matter what.

My main job right now is recording and editing audio and creating animated videos.

Home Office: Two 25" monitors, stereo speakers, and a podcast-quality mic, in a quiet neighborhood with little to no outside noise and the ability to ask everyone in the house to be quiet whenever I'm recording.

Work Cubicle: One 14" monitor (you're supposed to use your laptop monitor as a second screen if you need it), laptop speakers, laptop mic, in a cubicle that renders audio editing impossible without headphones (that they don't provide).

So... my SVP is mandating that I lose roughly 30% productivity so that he can... what? Have human beings in a building?

What a stupid, stupid waste...

You like to have a paperwork backup, right?

Maybe write an e-mail to whoever it will be most appropriate listing your current set-up and asking to be provided with comparable tools in the office. That's for the moment when someone starts complaining on your drop of productivity/quality, you can show them you weren't given adequate tools to do your jobs.

It would be nice if someone looked on your request decided that it costs money and that giving your exception is based on avoiding that cost, but, obviously, taking a reasonable course of action is a path the company already missed...

As I've said, the chain of command here is:

EVP --> SVP --> VP --> Director --> Manager --> Me
and every single person in that chain EXCEPT the SVP acknowledges that it would be better for me to remain at home.

But EVP is unwilling to force the issue because he doesn't want to "step on toes", so SVP is the Big Kahuna with the Strong Opinion, so it has to be done and fail before he relents. (He's a BIG believer in the, "Never say, 'No.' Try it and accept failure," approach.)


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Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

Federally funded fondling finished, waiting for flight to see folks I haven't seen in person since June 2019.

Previous to that, I'd seen them every year going back over a decade.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
NobodysHome wrote:
Drejk wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:

Well, today's the day when our tin-plated dictator is likely to "lay down the law" and mandate that we go to the office 2 days a week no matter what.

My main job right now is recording and editing audio and creating animated videos.

Home Office: Two 25" monitors, stereo speakers, and a podcast-quality mic, in a quiet neighborhood with little to no outside noise and the ability to ask everyone in the house to be quiet whenever I'm recording.

Work Cubicle: One 14" monitor (you're supposed to use your laptop monitor as a second screen if you need it), laptop speakers, laptop mic, in a cubicle that renders audio editing impossible without headphones (that they don't provide).

So... my SVP is mandating that I lose roughly 30% productivity so that he can... what? Have human beings in a building?

What a stupid, stupid waste...

That cubicle sounds very claustrophobic to me.

You like to have a paperwork backup, right?

Maybe write an e-mail to whoever it will be most appropriate listing your current set-up and asking to be provided with comparable tools in the office. That's for the moment when someone starts complaining on your drop of productivity/quality, you can show them you weren't given adequate tools to do your jobs.

It would be nice if someone looked on your request decided that it costs money and that giving your exception is based on avoiding that cost, but, obviously, taking a reasonable course of action is a path the company already missed...

As I've said, the chain of command here is:

EVP --> SVP --> VP --> Director --> Manager --> Me
and every single person in that chain EXCEPT the SVP acknowledges that it would be better for me to remain at home.

But EVP is unwilling to force the issue because he doesn't want to "step on toes", so SVP is the Big Kahuna with the Strong Opinion, so it has to be done and fail before he relents. (He's a BIG believer in the, "Never say, 'No.' Try it and accept failure," approach.)


I don't think it went like it was supposed to go... Just like it will be in the real life :P


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NobodysHome wrote:


So... my SVP is mandating that I lose roughly 30% productivity so that he can... what? Have human beings in a building?

So the people making that decision can justify their existence.

(The company) should make decision based on sense, reason, and evidence about what is good for the company.

But the company doesn't actually exist. It's a conglomeration of different beings. Not all of those beings are equal in their decision making.

Management makes those decisions.

The management making those decisions don't share equally in the company profits. So "it would be better for the company" isn't their primary concern. If the company does better, and that increased performance leads to the company making 1.7 instead of 1.5 Quazillion dollars.. they still get their salary and MAYBE a slightly bigger bonus.

Management also isn't the workers. So if you have to work 30% harder to do the same work. Oh well. Not their problem.

But if you can do your job at home without constant management supervision... that undercuts the idea that workers need to be supervised. Which undercuts the argument for their own existence. That has to be stopped before the executives notice.

It's a variation on the prisoner dilemma /tragedy of the commons. you're prevented from the best outcome because the decision maker and entity aren't the same thing.


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OK. Much more interesting. SVP wants attendance to be 90% of "those expected to be in the office", but they're not going to come down on individuals for noncompliance. Further, our director already sekretly marked all of us as "Remote Workers", so as far as I know we don't count towards that percentage.

In short, I think I'm safe after all.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
NobodysHome wrote:

OK. Much more interesting. SVP wants attendance to be 90% of "those expected to be in the office", but they're not going to come down on individuals for noncompliance. Further, our director already sekretly marked all of us as "Remote Workers", so as far as I know we don't count towards that percentage.

In short, I think I'm safe after all.

Yay for subversive behavior!


4 people marked this as a favorite.
NobodysHome wrote:

Well, today's the day when our tin-plated dictator is likely to "lay down the law" and mandate that we go to the office 2 days a week no matter what.

My main job right now is recording and editing audio and creating animated videos.

Home Office: Two 25" monitors, stereo speakers, and a podcast-quality mic, in a quiet neighborhood with little to no outside noise and the ability to ask everyone in the house to be quiet whenever I'm recording.

Work Cubicle: One 14" monitor (you're supposed to use your laptop monitor as a second screen if you need it), laptop speakers, laptop mic, in a cubicle that renders audio editing impossible without headphones (that they don't provide).

So... my SVP is mandating that I lose roughly 30% productivity so that he can... what? Have human beings in a building?

What a stupid, stupid waste...

I'm still staring at the equipment list in utter disbelief. If, at any point in my IT career, I supplied someone with a single 14" monitor I'd have a complete and utter rebellion on my hands.


Vanykrye wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:

Well, today's the day when our tin-plated dictator is likely to "lay down the law" and mandate that we go to the office 2 days a week no matter what.

My main job right now is recording and editing audio and creating animated videos.

Home Office: Two 25" monitors, stereo speakers, and a podcast-quality mic, in a quiet neighborhood with little to no outside noise and the ability to ask everyone in the house to be quiet whenever I'm recording.

Work Cubicle: One 14" monitor (you're supposed to use your laptop monitor as a second screen if you need it), laptop speakers, laptop mic, in a cubicle that renders audio editing impossible without headphones (that they don't provide).

So... my SVP is mandating that I lose roughly 30% productivity so that he can... what? Have human beings in a building?

What a stupid, stupid waste...

I'm still staring at the equipment list in utter disbelief. If, at any point in my IT career, I supplied someone with a single 14" monitor I'd have a complete and utter rebellion on my hands.

Apparently my Indian colleague already had her first required in-office day and she was rewarded with a 13" monitor and no docking station. So 14" is apparently the "luxury model".


Now I am sadness.

The California State Teachers' Retirement System (CalSTRS) just sent me a reminder of my account. So I thought, "Hey, GothBard's dad worked for the City of Oakland for 15 years and that was enough to get him enough of a pension that he can comfortably retire. What would what look like for me?"

So I fired up their calculator and put in the numbers: If I quit Global Megacorporation now and took the 42% pay cut, I'd lose Social Security and 401(k) matching, but I'd get...
...
...
$30,240 a year.

THAT is what we're giving teachers to retire on?

I am ashamed.


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I have always Considered Phawtl to be a Place of Calm and Refinement, Unfullied by the Loose Talk and Lewd Badinage encountered Elsewhere upon thif most Purple of Webfites, so it Distressed me Greatly to fee fuch Words as SPO-- and C-RP Bandied about Cafually by Mr N_ and Mrs M_, perfons who I Previoufly confidered to be Sober, Induftrious Individuals of Mature Discernment and Upright Morals, thus giving the Unwelcome Imprefsion that I was Frequenting a Low Tavern, Inhabited bu fuch Creatures as Difcharhed Mariners, Trollops, Actrefses, Prong-Twitchers, Glebe-Lurkers, Oftlers, Hawkers, Gin-Bibbers, and the Common Soldiery


Drejk wrote:
lisamarlene wrote:
Well spock. I'm on my way up to the Oklahoma border which is a good hour and a half drive because Teensy Valeros just got himself kicked out of summer camp. If I'm lucky I'll be home and in bed somewhere between 2:00 and 2:30 and I have to be back at work at 8:00. This is going to be fun.
What did he do?

Allegedly? Poke other boys in his cabin with a nail, or pretend he was going to (not exactly sure which, and he denies it); walk out of the shower and around the room naked in their group cabin (he does this at home, too); tease other boys by poking his head under the bathroom stall door. He does what strikes him as funny and has no filter and no sense of when he is going too far. The other boys complained that he was disturbing and scary.


Meanwhile, I had bought all of the ingredients to make two different kinds of crab cakes for dinner tonight, one traditional, and one with kimchi and lime. Because it's not something I've ever tried to make from scratch before even though I enjoy eating them. So although it won't be the romantic dinner for two that we had originally planned, since last week was our 24th anniversary but WW was in Boston, I'm making the dinner anyway.
We were also supposed to go out to a tapas/paella place for dinner tomorrow night, which is no longer happening.


lisamarlene wrote:
Allegedly? Poke other boys in his cabin with a nail, or pretend he was going to (not exactly sure which, and he denies it); walk out of the shower and around the room naked in their group cabin (he does this at home, too); tease other boys by poking his head under the bathroom stall door. He does what strikes him as funny and has no filter and no sense of when he is going too far. The other boys complained that he was disturbing and scary.

My Lawful nature is extremely disturbed by the lack of process here.

On Wednesday at 7:11 pm my time you reported that, "The kids are halfway through their camp adventure. We have heard absolutely nothing in three days, which is good, because they only call you if your kid is sick or in trouble..."

An hour and 38 minutes later, you were headed off to pick him up. So somehow, he did something -SO- serious that they had to throw him out. Let's take everything as the absolute truth and see how that pans out:

(1) He poked the other kids with a nail.
Ok, if he drew blood, that would be an insta-expel. Except you'd know about it because there would be an immense hubbub. So we can safely assume he didn't draw blood. In which case this is an irritating, "Counselor talks to him/parent phone call/boot" situation. We're missing "parent phone call".

(2) He walked around the room naked.
Give me a break. I'm not going to even dignify this with an analysis.

(3) He teased the other boys by poking his head under the bathroom stall.
Again, this is a "counselor talk/parent talk/boot" scenario.

I just don't see him putting anyone in danger, or his behavior being so loathsome that they had to kick him out of camp at 10 at night instead of calling you first.

I am unimpressed with the camp's management.


lisamarlene wrote:

Meanwhile, I had bought all of the ingredients to make two different kinds of crab cakes for dinner tonight, one traditional, and one with kimchi and lime. Because it's not something I've ever tried to make from scratch before even though I enjoy eating them. So although it won't be the romantic dinner for two that we had originally planned, since last week was our 24th anniversary but WW was in Boston, I'm making the dinner anyway.

We were also supposed to go out to a tapas/paella place for dinner tomorrow night, which is no longer happening.

Ouch.


NobodysHome wrote:

On Wednesday at 7:11 pm my time you reported that, "The kids are halfway through their camp adventure. We have heard absolutely nothing in three days, which is good, because they only call you if your kid is sick or in trouble..."

An hour and 38 minutes later, you were headed off to pick him up. So somehow, he did something -SO- serious that they had to throw him out. Let's take everything as the absolute truth and see how that pans out:

My guess is that the timeline you're using is out of order

(a)(2) He walked around the room naked.
(b)(3) He teased the other boys by poking his head under the bathroom stall.
(c)(1) He poked the other kids with a nail.

They didn't call parents for a or b because that's not outrageous behavior for a young boy. But after dealing with a and b, c tipped the scales and 'aggression with a sharp pointed object' is auto-eject whether or not it drew blood.

They called her to tell her her son was being booted and to explain the proximate cause. That's the hubbub. The rest is just background information that demonstrates that the behavior was escalating.


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"A necromancer is just a medic with really bad timing."


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NobodysHome wrote:

OK. Maybe I am built different.

I was in a lighthearted event in FFXIV and one of the participating players mentioned that she was trying to save up to buy some in-game housing. I asked how much, and everyone said it was only 20 million gil. I've been playing for YEARS, so that's more than pocket change but hardly a ton. So I started handing her millions of gil.

And all the other players went NUTS and said it was the most amazing act of kindness they'd ever seen in an MMORPG.

Really? Giving away a bunch of imaginary currency is "amazing"?

I thought I was being nice, and kind to a newer player, which is what you're SUPPOSED to do to encourage people to play a game you love.

Apparently I was WAY out of line... in a good way.

>_>

<_<

Hey, NH, there's a house I would like to buy that is considerably less than 20 million dollars, maybe you could send a few million dollars my way?

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