Ok so I recently started GMing a game of Crypt of the Everflame and the characters had just levelled up for the first time, in the middle of the dungeon. The player with the Rogue character was considering taking a level in Alchemist, more for flavour than anything else but with a focus on throwing explosives and splash damage.
At first I said this was fine but we both discussed how he could possibly get all the equipment that comes with playing an Alchemist, not only the Alchemist kit but recipe book and all the other bits and pieces this class uses to make best use of it's abilities.
Apart from finding a random Alchemist kit lying around or heading back to town before continuing, we couldn't find a logical, practical and most importantly, a way of getting round this that most fit into character.
Anyone got any ideas from similar situations, such as a Wizard suddenly having a spellbook or someone multiclassing into a cleric and 'just happening' to find the appropriate holy symbol lying around?
I know mechanically this mixture wouldn't have been ideal but if we could have come up with an explanation, then I would have allowed it. As it was he just took a second level in Rogue and will think about researching Alchemy when back in town.
Any feedback on this would be appreciated!
1) The next room they find is an alchemist lab, complete with a skeleton with a knife still in it hunched over the formulae book.
2) The rogue picked the stuff up back in town when no one else was looking.
3) Have the next fight be an alchemist. Steal his stuff off his corpse.
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I think you meant "suspending disbelief"
In any case, I wold suggest players plan their level progression, particularly if they are going to multi-class, so you can work their growth and development into the shared story you are telling. I think you did the right thing by disallowing this one. The Rogue's shown a sudden interest in Alchemy. That's fine, but it's going to take to some research and materials before Mr Hyde shows his face.
Yes Rizzo, I did mean suspending disbelief. I can't bring myself to run a game where the universe revolves around the player's whims. I know they are quite central to the tale but if I changed everything when they decided to change there'd be no story left.
Besides I don't think he minded taking another level in Rogue in the end because it gave him evasion. Alchemy can wait!
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0126.html
This is what I would do as a GM. Your mileage may vary.
If the rogue HAS been roleplaying out an interest in alchemy from the start...
Spoilers for Crypt of the Everflame:
The module suggests the PCs be assigned mentors from the village of Kassen. The crypt contains a storage room where the mentors have left gifts for their proteges should they have found the room.
Especially if the mentor knows of the rogue's interest in alchemy--or indeed, taught him a few tricks himself (or it would make enough sense to "ret-con" that idea into the story), the cache containing materials for an alchemist would make perfect sense.
If the rogue's player just out of the blue said "I'm taking a level of alchemist" without warning, I would explain first that multiclassing represents planned training. That he has shown no pre-training to enter the class indeed, calls for too much suspension of disbelief. Say it's fine ultimately for him to become an alchemist, but that the equipment that comes with the class cannot sensibly appear in mid air as soon as he levels. Suggest taking one of two courses of action:
1. Take a level of rogue for now, and begin roleplaying out his interest in alchemy. Besides, the 2nd level of rogue will give him Evasion and a Rogue Talent which are good things to have, and personally, I'd want Evasion before I start experimenting with bombs. ;)
2. Take a level of alchemist as long as he accepts that he isn't going to have all the resources alchemists start with because the PC did not plan ahead. As GM you can leave some items for him to find as the adventure continues---but IMO yes, the maintenance of a believable narrative is important. Absolutely, make sure he gets what he needs eventually, but not immediately.
ALSO make clear to your players that while you don't expect all 20 levels mapped out in advance, you need to be informed of intentions when leveling and expect a modicum of roleplaying out of related skills and interests, just enough to make sense. This shouldn't be a burden to players--it hopefully in fact will make things more fun for them (at least, I know I enjoy describing a multiclass character's practicing a certain art before I take a level).
And no, I wouldn't materialize a spellbook out of thin air for a suddenly-multiclassed wizard who had never taken an interest in spellcasting before.
Whatever you decide to do, good luck.
I'm still playing a house-ruled version of 3.5. Haven't made the complete jump to Pathfinder, but am integrating more and more as time goes on.
Does Pathfinder require a period of time to train when advancing a level? I was just looking through the AD&D Dungeon Master's Guide, a few days ago, and a character was supposed to train 1d4 weeks times the level to be gained. So, advancing in the dungeon was not possible.
That said, I've never really required training time for PC's, assuming that they've been working on the skills and powers they develop in their "down time."
So, does Pathfinder have any rules about needing to take time off from adventuring to train when gaining a level?
Thanks!
Nope, no rules for training. It's assumed you do it on your off-time between adventures, or maybe a bit here and there as you travel or whatnot. Or even done while you're sleeping. And don't forget that you're getting on-the-job training as an adventurer all the time!
as someone who has once played in campaign with a sudden "wait for your classfeatures even after getting the lvl up", I would suggest to let him take the alchemist classfeature and give him as much as possible trough "oh you find a dead alchemist" or something like that.
I mean the rogue could find those alchemic things and say "yay, they look cool, I play with his stuff a bit".
But for future reference tell your players that new classes need to be told 1 lvl in advance.
Nope, no rules for training. It's assumed you do it on your off-time between adventures, or maybe a bit here and there as you travel or whatnot. Or even done while you're sleeping. And don't forget that you're getting on-the-job training as an adventurer all the time!
Thanks!
Honestly, in the list of "crazy things to find on the dungeon floor," the dead alchemist isn't far fetched in the least.
It's also pretty easy to make a soft retcon, in a sort of idea that he's been leaning this way for a while, and has been slowly accumulating the goods.
The three times I can think of when it came in place with a game I was involved with, once it was easy because it was sorcerer, and all it took was a high stress situation; once it was played off as something of a joke (the bard multi-classing to fighter with a "I'm mad as hell and not taking it anymore - give me that sword; I'll learn how to use it if it kills me"); once with a highly memorable 'foxhole conversion' scene with the PC fashioning a makeshift holy symbol out of the iron stake he'd been nailed to the ground with.
It's a lot easier if you let it slide until town though, obviously.
Wasn't the Crypt of Everflame partialy built by the villagers for the PCs to explore? If they knew about one character's alchemical obsession they could have placed something for him/her there as a gift (- some treasure/ + a little alchemy equipment along with a letter).
Nope, no rules for training. It's assumed you do it on your off-time between adventures, or maybe a bit here and there as you travel or whatnot. Or even done while you're sleeping. And don't forget that you're getting on-the-job training as an adventurer all the time!
That doesn't explain how the newly-become alchemist wakes up with alchemist's tools in his bag when they weren't there the night before. Some of the alchemist's abilities are based on craft alchemy and IIRC you need the appropriate tools to use them. The equipment and how the character got it seemed to be a primary concern--but there have been a few suggestions for how that could happen in a way that made sense.
Your GM (me) doesn't assume it's done on your off-time between adventures, for the record (but most of y'all tend to practice the skills that you build up, which is all that I look for). Although if you suddenly decide to become a fighter, I will instantly materialize a suit of cold iron full plate around your character. :)
Myself, I require an "honest night's sleep" before granting XP, so there usually won't be a level up in the dungeon.
I've also established training rules for classes, so you can't just suddenly multiclass without having met the requirements for multiclassing. Usually this is a period of weeks where you can train with someone who already has your class, whether a PC or NPC. I can make exceptions if someone was working towards a class, such as a Bard who might have been carrying a holy symbol and expressing interest in a specific religion and having had contact with the priests might be allowed to become a Cleric in the middle of the dungeon.
I've also become more comfortable with "retconning". So the guy forgot to write down on his character sheet that he had a holy symbol. Well, his PC remembered even if the player forgot. Of course, he's probably not going to have a complete alchemy set with him.
As far as gaining XP goes, I've always assumed you gain them every time you earn them, regardless of what time of day it is. Giving them at the end of a session or day is just for ease of play. Extra training for gaining levels is silly, a class should flow smoothly from one ability to the next, else it shouldn't really be in the class. And the greatest learning is done by doing, not by practice. Gaining new classes should require more than leveling up. You were right to demand him to wait until some down time or going back to town to pick up equipment needed for the class. Unless the player knows the character is multi-classing and has prepared accordingly.
A long time ago, in a game I was running - I think it was 3.0 just before 3.5 came out - one of the players decided she wanted to multiclass into cleric. The party was far from town, and not likely to get back anytime soon. Luckily, the player did not have a particular deity she cared more or less about, so what I did was I made one up to fit her alignment, and I inserted remnants of a religious sect into the ruins they had been heading for.
At the ruin, she found their most sacred ancient religious text, and plenty of pictures of their holiest symbols. The character studied the text for a few nights, had an epiphany, and decided to bring this ancient, forgotten religion back into the world. It was easy enough to allow her to take a level of cleric then, on the basis that she was something like "chosen" by this goddess to bring her word back into the world. I didn't have to make her uber-powerful or grant any additional powers. The ability to level into cleric was "chosen" enough for the situation.
One player gave us grief about it, but it was the King of All Disruptive Players, and he always gave me grief about everything. Nobody else cared at all. They were glad to have a healer that was not an NPC.