In the core book it lists the expected wealth for each character level. Is there anywhere that lists the typical saving throw bonuses for each level? (I know this will differ by class, but I thought maybe there was an average set of saving throw bonuses by level)
In the core book it lists the expected wealth for each character level. Is there anywhere that lists the typical saving throw bonuses for each level? (I know this will differ by class, but I thought maybe there was an average set of saving throw bonuses by level)
Eh, a reasonable estimate would be a level appropriate cloak of resistance, a 2 or 3 in the relevant stat and then add in the base saves. Whether they've prestiged, have a higher / lower stat, etc. should balance out with in 1-2 most of the time.
The back of the Bestiary (p. 291) has target DCs for abilities of monsters at the different CRs. You can extrapolate desired saving throw bonuses from that.
Example: A CR 6 critter is listed as Primary ability DC 16, Secondary ability DC 11. So, a 6th-level character with a +6 save modifier would make the save a bit over half the time (55%) against the primary ability DC, and 80% of the time against the secondary ability DC. If you want your character to make the primary save 75% of the time, you'd want a +10 save bonus.
This assumes the monsters are being made based on those guidelines, of course.
Saves vary too much from character to character, and class to class to really be "typical". I am playing a Paladin7/Monk1 with Fort+15, Ref+13, Will+13. Which obviously is much higher than one can realistically expect for just about anyone else. In the same party, we have a cleric8 with Fort+7, Ref+5, Will+13. A Rogue/Wizard/Arcane Trickster with Fort+5, Ref+11, Will+7. And a Magus with Fort+9, Ref+4, Will+7.
Also, some classes rely more heavily on the save-stats (Dex, Con, Wis), allowing you to get better saves than those who require strength, intelligence and charisma.
For some, I would go so far as to say that one or two of the save-feats is REQUIRED to hope for success. The alchemist has a terrible will save, with few ways to bolster it, as he needs int, dex, con and perhaps str before Wis. I always give them iron will, to counteract this weakness.
The back of the Bestiary (p. 291) has target DCs for abilities of monsters at the different CRs. You can extrapolate desired saving throw bonuses from that.
Example: A CR 6 critter is listed as Primary ability DC 16, Secondary ability DC 11. So, a 6th-level character with a +6 save modifier would make the save a bit over half the time (55%) against the primary ability DC, and 80% of the time against the secondary ability DC. If you want your character to make the primary save 75% of the time, you'd want a +10 save bonus.
This assumes the monsters are being made based on those guidelines, of course.
This pertains exactly to why I was curious. When designing a creature, I'm trying to decide if giving a primary save above the average is going to be too decimating to a party.
To add a little more granularity, here are the current averages for Fort, Ref and Will saves for monsters in the database.
Eventually I'll do an analysis of PCs averages for all the different elements.
Cool!
Your best bet is to look at your players' characters' sheets to see what their saving throws actually are.
The saves depend on so much: General power level (which in turn depends on how generous you are with ability generation, character wealth and availability of magic items), the players' general optimisation ability, the classes, the characters' foci, the players' focus on saving throws.
After all, a defensively-minded master optimiser playing a defensive paladin on a game where you get almost godlike ability scores and several monarchs' ransom worth of magic items EACH will have much nicer saving throws than a RPG newblood's first attempt at playing a fighter in a low-powered campaign.
If your campaign's general power level differs from the standard guidelines by more than a little, you can adjust the guidelines for monster stats given in the monster creation section of the PRD/Bestiary accordingly. That's your baseline. It should be higher for high-powered campaigns. You should not go too far from the baseline, since that will mean the characters failing lots of saves (which will mean more bad stuff than recommended). Plus, it makes it hard to gauge CR properly (one of the main reasons CR was such a mess in 3.0 and 3.5 was that there were no such guidelines, and different stats were all over the place. It might average out, but that doesn't mean a monster that will not survive being actually attacked by the party but will kill a character with about 80% probability whenever it gets to act is appropriate)