Please look at this build. Below I have my comments. I want to see what people think. It was a build a friend made, but I really don't agree so much on it.
Male Human Rogue (Scout) 5
True Neutral Humanoid (Human)
Init +4; Perception +9
--------------------
DEFENSE
--------------------
AC 21, touch 15, flat-footed 17 (+4 Dex, +5 armor, +1 deflection)
hp 45 (5d8+10)
Fort +4, Ref +9, Will +3
--------------------
OFFENSE
--------------------
Spd 30ft.
Greatsword +10 (2d6+15) +3d6 sneak attack
Rogue Talents:
Minor Magic: Light 3/day
Major Magic: Shield 2/day
--------------------
STATISTICS
--------------------
Str 18, Dex 16 (18), Con 14, Int 12, Wis 13, Cha 7
Base Atk +3; CMB +7; CMD 22
Feats: Arcane Strike, Weapon Focus, Power Attack, Furious Focus Traits: Armor Expert, Heirloom Weapon
Languages Common, Elven
Magic Items: Chain Shirt +1, Greatsword +1, Cloak of Resistance +1, Ring of Protection +1, Belt of Dexterity +2
Special Abilities
+3d6 Sneak Attack, Trapfinding, Evasion, Trap Sense +1, Scout's Charge
--------------------------------------------
My comments:
Alright, so it's time to sit down and review this build the right way, lol. That, and I am a little bored waiting for my breakfast.
As a disclaimer, we can pick apart any build... so this is an exercise in fun.
This is what I call an NPC build. Strong at present, but the projections make it not as strong as it seems. What makes a build strong is not the statistics but the tactics. This character probably wouldn't survive to 8th level, and once he got vital strike, would probably die from using the tactic.
Why do I say this? Lets break it down:
This is a rogue trying to be a fighter... a fighter is the best consistent damage dealer (melee) in the game, plus, he needs no ones help.
--------------------
DEFENSE
--------------------
AC 21, touch 15, flat-footed 17 (+4 Dex, +5 armor, +1 deflection)
hp 45 (5d8+10)
Fort +4, Ref +9, Will +3
Very good defenses and good hit points, but only at this level. As he continues to level, the separation between him and the fighter expands. He will have to take the toughness feat and stay HP strong on favored bonuses to stay close.
High reflex save with the evasion will help a ton, but many enemies/monsters target fort saves, and this build doesn't have a strong one. His will save is also weak and he doesn't have the feat availability to select saving throw enhancements.
--------------------
OFFENSE
--------------------
Spd 30ft.
Greatsword +10 (2d6+15) +3d6 sneak attack
Rogue Talents:
Minor Magic: Light 3/day
Major Magic: Shield 2/day
I like the rogue talents and how the major magic compliments the ac. The +4 to ac is hard to beat. The damage is great, but the sneak attack is limited to flanking, flat footed or charging. He is not going to be able to charge often, and without mobility, this is a once a combat move.
The + to hit is great, but a fighter will be doing similar damage and with a better plus, yes, no sneak attack, but that is situational. Without a partner, we should disregard it.
--------------------
STATISTICS
--------------------
Str 18, Dex 16 (18), Con 14, Int 12, Wis 13, Cha 7
Base Atk +3; CMB +7; CMD 22
Feats: Arcane Strike, Weapon Focus, Power Attack, Furious Focus Traits: Armor Expert, Heirloom Weapon
Languages Common, Elven
Magic Items: Chain Shirt +1, Greatsword +1, Cloak of Resistance +1, Ring of Protection +1, Belt of Dexterity +2
Special Abilities
+3d6 Sneak Attack, Trapfinding, Evasion, Trap Sense +1, Scout's Charge
CHR as a dump stat? Yes, this person probably doesn't have many friends.
Arcane strike is nice for damage, brings him closer to a fighter with weapon focus/training/specialization. Power attack and furious focus, very good, but this could probably be replaced with combat expertise and mobility to allow for more charging in battle for the sneak attack. Or better yet, improved feint for a move action. This would allow the power attack/furious focus + sneak attack without a flank, but it would cost you weapon focus and arcane strike.
The next couple of levels would require something with a d10 or d12 hit points and full base attack to keep up with the power curve. The rogues medium BAB is offset by flanking bonuses, so with this brute we would need some strong allies to provide it.
Vital strike cannot be used on a charge, so that option is not available. He would have to move in and use it. Vital strike is designed more for fighters to offset the loss of attacks when using a move action.
I think this is a fun build, but again, as a snap shot. This would be a really fun NPC battle, but as a PC, he would be too limited.
My thoughts... lol
I don't think having a spell-like ability is the same as the ability to cast spells?
Some creatures actually cast arcane spells as sorcerers do, using components when required. Some creatures have both spell-like abilities and actual spellcasting power.
That's a pretty big distinction between "actual spellcasting power" and merely the capability to use a spell-like ability.
So I'd ditch the Arcane Strike feat from the build.
By the way what point buy is this?
Also, consider looking at the Outflank feat, it's pretty good.
|
First the scout. It makes me go realy ? what a wast. Your going to use your sneek attack on charges or spring attacks! How uneffective. So you can attack one time each round in a open ara for sneek attack damage. 80% of combat takes place in close quoters. And the 20% that dose not is the blasting kind where caster duke it out. Rogue Talent Minor Magic and Major Magic are spell like abilitys. This dose not get you the ability to cast arcane magic. So you can't take Arcane Strike. Minor Magic: Light Major Magic: Shield Both can be replaced with better over all abilitys. With the stats used over all two weapon fighting is a better way to go and will give you higher over all damage. The charge and spring attack for sneek attack is good up till you start facing monsters with over 100HP that will start to hapen around level 7. Then you can tickle them onec a round for a few points of damage with your great sword. Whare as the figher will out damage you. A well built rogue can do as much or more damage then a fighter. Thay just wont hit as offen becous thay are lacking the full BAB and weapon traing. With a low ac and HP I can see this being a short lived charter if played wrong. And any monster with the trip ability and attack of opportunity will end this charter quick.
Str 18, Dex 16 (18), Con 14, Int 12, Wis 13, Cha 7
My fixes
Str 16 (+1 at all levels ) Dex 18 Con 14 Int 12 Wis 13 Cha 7
Feets : Two Weapon Fighting, Double Slice, Combat Expertise, Improved Feint
Rogue Trates : Fast Stealth, (Surprise Attack or Weapon Training Kukri)
So, are you guys agreeing with my analysis or am I off base?
I sent this to my group and I'm basically being laughed out of the room, lol.
I think it's not a strong build. I agree that it's a short lived character.
I'm not sure about arcane strike, it does say in the description that you can caste, but that is neither here nor there.
Point-buy... I have no idea. Those stats do seem high. He's the DM so anything goes, right?
|
Being able to consistently deliver sneak attack damage is a pretty awesome ability, even if it is on only one attack. A Scout with Spring Attack, Power Attack+Furious Focus with longspear makes for a great skirmisher who doesn't have to worry about getting full attacked by stone giants like the run-of-the-mill TWF shiskebab machine people often associate with the 3.5 rogue. Eventually he'll get Lunge as well and is able to do it even further away. Add in slippers of spider climbing, slow reactions and Combat Reflexes for hilarity.
Then again, the errata'ed offensive defense rogue talent is saving grace for high level rogues who like to stay in close quarters. Dodge boni for sneak attack dice? Gimme! I'm not sure whether it applies to ALL sneak attack dice rolled in a full attack. A TWF rogue would be swimming in Dodge boni after a well-placed full attack. +20 AC almost every round?! Anyone sure what here is the actual intention? It mentions "a melee attack", a single one, as a catalyst, but RAW the talent doesn't mention anything about the ability not working when there are several attacks.
Muser... not sure what your point is..
Could someone help me with an analysis instead of rambling... lol
(that probably opened a can of something)
|
|
Minor Magic (Sp): Spell like ability
Major Magic (Sp): Spell like ability
Arcane Strike (Combat)
Prerequisite: Ability to cast arcane spells.
Specal Abilitys.
A number of classes and creatures gain the use of special
abilities, many of which function like spells.
Spell-Like Abilities: Usually, a spell-like ability works
just like the spell of that name.
Thay function like but are not acrane spells.
but RAW the talent doesn't mention anything about the ability not working when there are several attacks.
If you move more then 5ft you only get one attack as a standard action. To use the scout abilitys you have to charge ( min of 10FT) or move more then 10ft.
Ok, lets say arcane strike is out.
What about the rest of the build?
|
|
Just a quick comment on the scout and those who want to pan it.
Scout does not take any sneak attack options away from the rogue, it only adds more in. So the rogue can now charge across a room and get a sneak attack in. At 8th level they can get sneak attack in nearly every round by keeping mobile, if they work it right they can get a sneak attack in every round while their enemy can't get a full attack in on them.
It's not crazy powerful, but it is a nice option, probably the one of the better mobility enabled stabby platforms.
Overall a fighter/ barbarian/ ranger/ eidolon full attacking every round is going to out damage the scout... or nearly any rogue.
My 2 cents:
Obviously, the point of this build has to be for a skirmisher. As such, the tactics are charge and attack, then try to get into flanking position. This has the drawbacks that you've mentioned (low HP, relatively low AC), basically it's the same drawbacks as any melee rogue after the initial charge to get SA.
I think that it could be improved by using a reach weapon (say lucerne hammer) and aiming for spring attack. I'd drop Arcane Strike (since you can't take it anyways) and Weapon Focus for Dodge and Mobility. Then use the 6th level rogue talent for Spring Attack. Then if the charge is cut off, you can get into flanking position easily without AoO. And you can stay out of reach of melee combatants more easily while still doing damage. You're still not going to do the damage that a fighter would, but hey, it is a rogue after all.
Thanks Ioun Cloud.. It is good to see someone at least reference my post.
It's like people don't even read.. they just want to post their random thoughts!!! lol
Either way, I am not too impressed with this build. I tried telling my group this and they gave me the opposite response.
It is not hard to build a character that can do damage, but it is important that the character can continually do damage without being taken out.
I think mobility is a good choice for this build since he cannot stand toe to toe.
The biggest response I got from my friends was that I can't compare him to a fighter... yes, I suppose I can't.. Problem is he is build to function like a fighter by charging into battle and hitting hard. If he had some mobility options, that would give him an out, but he simply does not.
This build gets killed pretty quick.
This is going to sound odd James, but can you point out the errors for me?
I want to make sure my errors and your match.