Note that I haven't actually played the class yet - hopefully I will be doing so very soon. All of this is based on me looking at the rules and going WTF. Issues presented in the order I encounter them.
1. Firearms themselves. I'm fine with the mechanics, except for the fact that you can't use Deadly Aim with them. That makes NO sense, and any sane DM would allow it. The wording of Deadly aim is obviously to prevent someone from using it with Polar Ray or the like. Guns are not Ranged Touch attacks. They're normal ranged attacks that, as a weapon property, ignore armor and shields within 1 range increment. If you rule that's a ranged touch attack, I'm going to start using metamagic with my flaming longsword, because it's obviously touch-range fire spell.
Additionally, misfires. There's no reason to make them as debilitating as they are, since guns aren't amazing weapons in the first place. Maybe add a roll to confirm a misfire/explosion?
One more thing, there's no weight given for bullets and powder. Anyone who says to use the weight for sling bullets is wrong - a medium sized sling would use stones the size of a baseball. I'd say to use the weight given for arrows as the weight for the bullets and powder combined.
2. Grit. I like the idea of rechargeable powers, which is probably why I adore Book of 9 Swords and 4th edition so much. However, two things here bug me. First of all, why is it based on Wisdom? One of the key ways to regain grit is by performing "daring" acts, aka. stupid heroic acts that are likely to get you killed. That doesn't seem very wise to me. I'd say to base this ability on Charisma - fits much more with the dashing hero archetype. Second, why does only the first kill of the day give you a grit point? That makes recharging it that way next to useless. Make it the first kill of every encounter and I'll be ok with it.
The Daring Act aspect I actually like, except for the 50% success rate guideline. As other users have pointed out, this makes it harder to gain grit as you level up. I'd simply make it a reward for roleplaying well and coming up with novel ideas - kind of like stunt dice in other systems.
3. Deeds. Too many problems to be verbose.
Leap for Cover: No cost listed. I'm assuming you can do this as long as you have Grit remaining (which would be good), but it needs verifying.
Pistol Whip: No reason to use this over normal melee weapons, or simply use your gun as an improvised melee weapon. Drop the Grit cost and we'll talk.
Gunslinger Initiative: The Quick Draw part is not needed. Also, perhaps increase the initiative bonus to your current Grit pool?
Covering Shot: Should be usable whenever you want, and as a free action when you miss.
Targeting: Headshots should do extra damage (2x weapon damage, like vital strike?) in addition to confusing. Arm and Leg shots need a CMB check (I suggest a CMB check, using Dex instead of Str, with a +4 bonus).
Utility Shot: Why is this a level eleven ability? Level one or three, then they're fine. Stop Bleeding might need some rewording - can you shoot an enemy, then touch an adjacent ally?
Startling Shot: See Covering Shot.
Expert Loading: Should be a part of Quick Clear.
Stunning Shot: Should come much earlier, perhaps level 11.
4. True Grit. This is a very weak capstone ability. I'm not sure what to do with it though. I think an ability that lets you spend grit to force a critical hit would be better, but it would probably be too powerful.
5. Feats. Lightning Reload: can you dual-wield and use this feat? If not, the iconic might want to reconsider her weapons.
Rapid Reload: Unless feat retraining is printed in a book somewhere, there should probably be a way to trade this in for Lightning Reload when you qualify for it.
Secret Stash: RAW you could create a theoretically infinite amount of bullets and powder, and then sell it. I know that's not the spirit of it, but I'd put in a note about the ammo gained this way being lost after the encounter.
Signature Deed: I think this should be available sooner, but that may be my inner munchkin talking (or the fact that I want to do Gun Kata ASAP, but that's neither here nor there).
Conclusion: I really want to like this class. I really do, Paizo. Any excuse for me to quote Roland Deschain in battle is a good one. But as is, the class is subpar to the point of being near useless, at least on paper. I could be completely wrong, and it'll reveal it's true worth in an actual game . . . but I'm not holding my breath.
Paizo, you have forgotten the face of your Father. Charyou tree, come reap.
Good ideas.
BTW, on the Feat Re-training, IF this is supposed to be a Fighter Variant,
it really needs to have the same Feat Re-Training langauge present.
Kyle Linger wrote: 1. Firearms themselves. I'm fine with the mechanics, except for the fact that you can't use Deadly Aim with them. That makes NO sense, and any sane DM would allow it. The wording of Deadly aim is obviously to prevent someone from using it with Polar Ray or the like. Guns are not Ranged Touch attacks. They're normal ranged attacks that, as a weapon property, ignore armor and shields within 1 range increment. If you rule that's a ranged touch attack, I'm going to start using metamagic with my flaming longsword, because it's obviously touch-range fire spell. I would tend to agree with you regarding Deadly Aim. It is a Weapon-Related feat, and would be applied in this instance. The Gunslinger is clearly intended to function best at close ranges, as would be appropriate for a non-rifled firearm.
Having built and practiced for a while with a sling, I will state that you are overestimating the size of sling bullets in saying that it uses ammunition the size of a baseball. A rock or chunk of metal that large would be awkward to carry several of, and would have a shorter effective range increment than the 50' in the Core Rulebook. A metal ball about an inch to an inch and a half in diameter is closer to the correct size. That, though, is still about twice the diameter of the sort of lead shot that an early smooth-bore firearm might use.
While I see many very good ideas in the Gunslinger, I also see a couple of glaring flaws and omissions.
The greatest flaws are the Covering Shot and Targeting deeds.
Specifically, as written, a target cannot resist the effects of these deeds by any means except(for Covering) being hit, or (for Targeting)total immunity to sneak attacks or not having a body part. Therefore, a 7th level character can knock an overflying colossal red dragon out of the sky with a pistol by spending one point of grit and making a ranged touch attack on the dragon's wing. There is no game balance. A pit fiend could spend many consecutive rounds being confused as he is repeatedly shot in the head (assuming that same 7th level Gunslinger took Rapid Reload and had a decent wisdom score). To give these sorts of disabling abilities no save, or even a combat maneuver defense check, does not make sense with the rest of the rules. An analogous ray spell to force an creature to automatically drop a weapon or to confuse a creature for one round without a saving throw might be 4th level, and therefore available to a 7th level caster, but it would also subject the caster to attacks of opportunity, do no hit point damage, and have spell resistance applied. Normally in Pathfinder, the stronger the opponent, the stronger its resistance to spells and to weapons will be. Where the Gunslinger is concerned, the stronger the opponent, the weaker it appears when someone just shoots it and spends a point of grit. Unlike a monk's ki powers, which increase the monk's abilities, the Gunslinger apparently expends his inner reserves of will to make the rest of the world into stumbling morons.
The most glaring oversight to me is that, as far as I have read, no one has yet mentioned in the discussions of this class just how incredibly annoying it would be to attempt to actually use a muzzle-loading black powder gun on a battlefield where magic use is common. What happens if you are hit with a fire spell while reloading? Instant explosion for your whole powder horn right in your hand is a distinct possibility. How do spells that create very damp conditions (like Fog Cloud, Sleet Storm, Obscuring Mist or even Create Water) affect your chances of getting your powder to light? Wet black powder can be a total loss.
Personally, I like the idea of a d'Artagnan or a Rob Roy getting to strut their stuff in a fantasy setting, but I think a class that relies entirely on a single weapon with hard-to-acquire ammunition is a deeply limiting concept. Perhaps this class should also be redesigned to take in crossbows. William Tell with a repeating crossbow?
rabidwombat wrote: The greatest flaws are the Covering Shot and Targeting deeds.
Specifically, as written, a target cannot resist the effects of these deeds by any means except(for Covering) being hit, or (for Targeting)total immunity to sneak attacks or not having a body part. Therefore, a 7th level character can knock an overflying colossal red dragon out of the sky with a pistol by spending one point of grit and making a ranged touch attack on the dragon's wing. There is no game balance. A pit fiend could spend many consecutive rounds being confused as...
I touched on that briefly in my original post, but I should probably expand.
Covering Shot: As a standard action, fire your weapon at the target. The shot does no damage, but allows you to make a CMB check (using your Dex instead of your Str, and with a +4 bouns). If you succeed, the target is Entangled for one round. This ability may be used as a swift action if you miss a target with a normal attack. costs 1 grit.
Startling Shot: See Covering Shot, replace 'entangled' with 'flat-footed.'
Targeting: Hand and Leg both need CMB checks, probably the same as I noted in Covering Shot. Head could use a fort save for the confusion, but it should also receive bonus damage (as you'rebeing shot in the freaking face).
A friend of mine, sitting next to me and discussing the new mechanics, had an interesting idea. Perhaps a gunslinger could improve her own firearm as she levels up?
Firearm [EX]: At first level, a Gunslinger gains her choice of one musket or two pistols for free, along with 50 bullets and 50 powder charges. These weapons improve as the gunslinger levels up, representing her tinkering with and customizing her weapons, and she need not expend any gold to make these improvements. At second level, her pistols or musket gain the masterwork quality. At 4th level, and every 2 levels thereafter, a Gunslinger may apply a +1 enhancement bonus, or equivalent enchantment, to her weapon (pistols must be enchanted separately). These improvements function for the Gunslinger only - in the hands of anyone else, her guns are mundane firearms.
Kyle Linger wrote: A friend of mine, sitting next to me and discussing the new mechanics, had an interesting idea. Perhaps a gunslinger could improve her own firearm as she levels up?
Firearm [EX]: At first level, a Gunslinger gains her choice of one musket or two pistols for free, along with 50 bullets and 50 powder charges. These weapons improve as the gunslinger levels up, representing her tinkering with and customizing her weapons, and she need not expend any gold to make these improvements. At second level, her pistols or musket gain the masterwork quality. At 4th level, and every 2 levels thereafter, a Gunslinger may apply a +1 enhancement bonus, or equivalent enchantment, to her weapon (pistols must be enchanted separately). These improvements function for the Gunslinger only - in the hands of anyone else, her guns are mundane firearms.
Essentially a Bonded Weapon? I'd thought of that, but had no decent way to word it. Looking at the way its worded by you, I feel dumb for not having the vocabulary to say that.
+1, Linger, +1.
Recent threads in Gunslinger Discussion: Round 1
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