Gunslinger & historical accuracy; Gunslinger vs Kobold quarterly's Arquebusier


Gunslinger Discussion: Round 1


I've used various different firearms using classes in my current campaign and probably my favourite to date is the Arquebusier from kobold quarterly issue 13.
My biggest criticism of the gunslinger are the proposed rules for firearms. The reload time is unrealistically fast and the damage too low. With firearms being prone to misfire, why would anyone in a fantasy setting prefer these to, for example, more reliable and equally damaging longbows or crossbows? OK, the critical damage is higher, but still the expense and range of dfirearms make them a poor alternative to bow weapons.
A napoleonic musketeer would perhaps get 3, or 4 rounds off a minute if an expert. So that would be a reload time of three rounds, two rounds with rapid reload. Reloading in 6 seconds is ridiculously and unbelievably fast. I would increase the reload time for firearms, but also increase the damage. We use 2d6 for a wheelock horse pistol or flintlock dueling pistol, 2d4 for a snall snaplock, 2d8 for a snaplock or wheelock musket and 2d10 for a 'brown bess' musket. what tends to happen is that, as in history, players tend to have multiple pistols, and after an initial, high damage flurry, either drop the weapons and use a rapier or similar, or duck for cover and spend multiple rounds reloading. My players like this as it makes fireams more historically realistic and also makes them substantially different from bow weapons.
Weather should also be a consideration for firearms users. The best way to make blackpowder weapons useless is to throw a thunderstorm at the party.
These comments are based on three years of playtesting with different firearms rules with three different groups (including some ex-military players who have used historical blackpowder weapons).

The biggest differences between the Kobold quarterly Arquebusier and the gunslinger are the 'grit' rules, which seem to be a combination of a ki pool and action points, and the various crafting abilities and 'double tap' powers of the Arquebusier. It seems strange to me that a swashbuckling action points system is inserted into a firearms using class. It would perhaps be better to have a swashbuckler class, with an action points system for high drama "million in one chance" abilities that is more open (ypu could have dread pirate type characters, or Indian Jones type characters, not just gunslingers), and perhaps have a 'musketeer' or gunslinger prestige class to emphasise using firearms in the system.
I personally like the crafting abilities of the Arquebusier that allow weapon and black powder crafting that is lacking in the gunslinger. How often will village stores sell bullets and gunpowder in a campaign world? Unless firearms are ubiquitous, your gunslinger is going to find it hard to find ammunition. Also how frequent will magical firearms be? Mages will have been constructing magic swords for thousands of years, but presumably only magical firearms for a century or so, so numbers would be expected to be low. The powers of the Arquebusier give firearms users more equality in the magic items stakes.
Finally, having two free pistols (2000gp) of goods seems over balanced, unless the character has constructed them themselves. The starting cash of the gunslinger should be much lower to balance out their free high cost weapons.
I would give gunslingers a bonus with craft firearms and craft alchemy from first level, and only one weapon. I would remove the 'grit' system and instead place it into a more developed and less specific/specialized swashbuckler class, and give the gunslinger powers, like the Arquebusier, for magical ammunition use and focus on, but modify, the targetting skills in the gunslinger (but remove teh grit point system).

Liberty's Edge

Realist needs to be removed from the equation! No one wants to play a realistic musket guy that takes two or three full round action to load. There is no realism necessary. The game does not take place on earth. It takes place in a fantasy world

Sovereign Court

While I do think that 'realism' should not be a major point of contention, some of the OP's suggestion do offer differntiator to give guns their own flavor. I plan on playtesting the class this weekend and I will be upping the damage dice to compensate for the slower reload times. I also like the suggestion to add crafting skills for the gunslinger to make them more self-sufficient.


Shar Tahl wrote:
Realist needs to be removed from the equation! No one wants to play a realistic musket guy that takes two or three full round action to load.

While I do not agree that realism needs to be suspended, I do agree that ease and enjoyment of play prevent realistic loading times from being an option. There's already a complaint that loading takes too long. I will agree that, to compensate for the slower loading, firearm damage needs to be increased. My group has been using firearms on and off for several years (we haven't play-tested as many rules sets, mind you), and we find that 1d10 is a decent damage for a pistol and 2d10 for a rifle.


Weather will absolutely wreck the hell out of just about anyone, not just black powder users.


I agree that the real reload rate for a musket etc would be prohibitively slow. But a big damage first blast, and then ducking for cover for two rounds for reloading, prior to another big damage blast, worked OK with my players. NPCs can help with reloading in pitched battles. Pistol users tend to get as many pistols as possible tucked into their belts for fast initial volleys.

Something I also introduced to take into account the penetration power of fire arms, was to have a vs firearms armour class (halfing the AC bonus armour). Dex and deflection bonuses still count, but plate mail isn't as good against a musket.

Realistically, rain will mess up bowstrings as much as a fire arm, although you can wax bowstrings (or take them off and keep them tucked away under your helment to keep them dry).

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