What is an alternate class, really?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


With the UC playtest 1, the Paizo peoplez have given us an idea of "alternate classes", essentially expanded archetypes. I'm not against the idea of alternate classes, but their interpretation of the idea throws me off a little.

Simply, I think its definition should be more unique.

Currently, the alternate classes we have are the Antipaladin, the Gunslinger, the Ninja and the Samurai. Only one of these--the antipaladin--do I truly see as an alternate class. The gunslinger, I think, should just become its own class, while the ninja and samurai don't really change enough to be more than an archetype.

My reason for thinking the antipaladin is the only true alternate class, though, has nothing to do with mechanics--but rather flavor. Even in an alignment-less game, a paladin and an antipaladin could never multiclass into each other, even if the rules allowed it. They are just too different from a flavor standpoint. The antipaladin is the antithesis of the paladin in every way.

The other three don't have this feeling. Why can't a standard fighter be a gunslinger? Because mechanics dictate so. Unless paizo really, REALLY pushed the idea of "old vs. new" with the gunslinger and the fighter, there's no real reason given other than "because we said so!"

Alternate classes, to me, really feel like they should be the alternate version of a class, rather than just a variant. There's paladins, then there's antipaladins. In the same way, they could develop a "Blighter" class to oppose the druid. It's truly the alternate version, rather than just a flavorful variation.

I'm not saying that all alternate classes should be totally opposed to the original, but they should feel alternate. Mayhaps they are included in world guides.

Ex. In Tian Xia, maybe nobody trains as a standard fighter, and you have the alternate "Bushi" who instead receives a combination of weapons training and martial arts discipline, and that's just the way it is. In the same vein, maybe there are no clerics, but instead there are "Shugenja" who use prayer books to cast their divine magic and are great scholars in comparison to standard inner-sea clerics.

The point is that they should feel like an alternate version of the class. Not just: this guy specializes in 2 weapons, or: that guy's a really good acrobat.

While I think the Samurai does pull this off (not the ninja, really. It's lacking some flavor), it doesn't really change much, and therefore I don't think it really deserves true alternate class status.

Just my 2 cp on the matter.

-The Beast

Grand Lodge

The thing that always bugged me about the archetypes was that they were still essentially the base class. You couldn't make a "Battle Sorcerer" by making a Bard archetype. You couldn't outright removed the Bardic Music, because that "defined" the class. It seemed that no matter what the Archetype, it was still a Bard, Ranger, Monk, or Fighter...

So what alternate classes allow, in my mind, is that you may take the framework of the class, and change it, take a step away from the base class, and fit it into something close yet very different.

After watching Spartacus: Blood and Sand, I am looking at creating a Gladiator Alternate Classout of the Ranger class. Stepping away from what a Ranger is, and into more of a warrior that learns to fight against certain opponents, and focuses on developing his own fighting style. Utilizing a Favored Opponent, and Combat Style, yet removing the spell casting, and adding a few new abilities!

That is just my take on this new Alternate Class system.

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