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Been playtesting this since its release a couple days ago and have already come across a few thoughts and ideas on it. First, its not me that's playtesting it (I'm the GM) but rather my players and they're coming up with QUITE a few questions that I thought I'd consult the masses about. A few of the questions have already been brought up. Perception Skill not being a class ability, blah-ze-blah. Some of the thoughts that came up involved multiclassing the gunslinger. Though I restricted them to playing through the classes for all 20 levels, they still posed questions I found interesting to ask.
First question was a multiclassed Playtest/Playtest - Gunslinger/Magus. When dipping into the Magus' Pool and using, say, the simple +1 enhancement, bestow the enhancement on bullets individually or on the gun itself (thus granting it on every bullet) for 1 minute? I ruled that it effected the gun and thus the shots because it made the most sense at the time and I wanted to streamline the game without slowing it down, but I made sure to note it down to come ask.
Other ideas my resident meat shield thought of was multiclassing Barbarian/Gunslinger. Can a gunslinger rage with a gun? The barbarian's rage clearly states that "While in rage, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or any ability that requires patience or concentration.
The highlighted part is why I decided that he couldn't. Because, in my mind, aiming and firing takes patience and/or concentration. He submitted and we moved on, but it was another question I decided to jot down to see what everyone else thought.
My resident do-gooder (i.e. Paladin) also wagered that since the Gunslinger has no alignment restrictions his Divine Bond spirit would be able to manifest with his gun. Reading the Paladin's Divine Bond, it varies only in the slightest from the Magus' Arcane Pool so I'd wager that my Paladin Player was right in his assumption that he could use a gun as the catalyst for his Divine Bond. What are your thoughts?
Also, and I know there's been mention of it before, but it was brought up by my players, whose exact question was, "All I have to do is kiss your a%% and I get a Grit Point?" Though the mechanics are not quite as simple as that, the whole Daring Act part of it is less than decent. For the most part, it really does sound like, "Impress the GM, Win some Grit." And no, I'm not talking about the Golarion drug.
Thoughts?
Anyways, thanks for listening to the rant, and I'll be on my way. I look forward to what anyone has to say on these subjects. Even better if you add your own thoughts to the mix. This is what the playtest forums are for.
my ideas:
for the barbarian, I would let him fire, but not reload in a rage.
Paladin and Magus can link, because it's a normal weapon.
Some new stuff to make the gunner a little bit better, sure, you're not the only one to think that.
Edit: edited a "not", I forgot.
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my ideas:
for the barbarian, I would let him fire, but reload in a rage.Paladin and Magus can link, because it's a normal weapon.
Some new stuff to make the gunner a little bit better, sure, you're not the only one to think that.
First, thanks on that response. Looking at it now, I can see your point for the barbarian. Like I said, at the time, the ruling was quick in order to streamline combat. However, I think it'd be alright to allow that at later points.
I agree with you on the Magus.
And sorry if it seemed like I was presenting the idea like it was my own. Didn't mean for it to come off that way. I know I'm not the only one to come up with better ideas. Hell, if I was, there wouldn't be a playtest forum, would there?
I didn't mean to say that you copied something or so. I just mentioned that by popular opinion you are right to assume that some additional stuff would make the gunner good.
Using rogue talents is a bit of a new idea tough. It's fighter class, so it's unlikely. An idea I had (and several others) was to make it an alchemist based class and guns would substitute mainly bombs and mutagens.
I have never seen an official response about what is set in stone (except apparently the guns themselves, what is very sad), but think getting him into ultimate combat an alchemist based character is unlikely. I'm still not giving up hope.
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Hey, even though I know its not going to happen, I'm holding out hope that he's going to be made into a Base Class as opposed to an Alternate Class. The ideas and mechanics are there if Paizo listens to its customers and fans (which it has and hasn't done on occassion, mostly has). I know if its made into a base class, you may be able to pick and choose ideas from the other classes. Your alchemist idea isn't bad either, but to me, the Alchemist Bombs seem almost like a Rogue with Sneak Attack to me. Rogue's can modify their Sneak Attack with Rogue Talents - Alchemists can modify their Bombs with Discoveries. The same concept just on different sides of the coin.
The Deeds and Grit are a decent idea in thought but I think in this playtest its grossly misdone. I don't like the idea of the Daring Act one bit. No other classes get any sort of bonus for being awesome and it honestly seems to me like "Impress the GM, Get A Grit" type of thing. Maybe its just me.
As for the firearms, I agree with you there, though I doubt this is the final version of it all. I know its been mentioned but in the Campaign Setting, firearms were mentioned also, and I read on one of these threads that they'll be in the Inner Sea's Guide. Not sure if there's any truth to that.
True, it does have some work to go. I already use firearms when GMing (using a mixture of the Nobis Campaign Setting and those listed here as my base and I think when the final product comes out, Paizo will have streamlined it a bit more.
I guess what most of this is coming down to is "Wait-And-See". Regardless, I'm going to be picking up a copy of it when it comes out, so like I said, hurry up and wait.
The Deeds and Grit are a decent idea in thought but I think in this playtest its grossly misdone. I don't like the idea of the Daring Act one bit. No other classes get any sort of bonus for being awesome and it honestly seems to me like "Impress the GM, Get A Grit" type of thing. Maybe its just me.
As someone who played in game where as a gun toting highwayman who blew up a cave entrance and then had to scramble to a ledge as the rock face started to fall away I whole heartedly agree with this. this mechanic should either be implimented for all classes perhaps by rewarding hero points or removed.
As for the firearms, I agree with you there, though I doubt this is the final version of it all. I know its been mentioned but in the Campaign Setting, firearms were mentioned also, and I read on one of these threads that they'll be in the Inner Sea's Guide. Not sure if there's any truth to that.
To shamelessly repost something I said from another thread:
The point of limiting the weapon selection is to remove that as a variable. If everything else is constant, then the one variable (the class) is easier to evaluate.I can see your point but just like determining ballistic arc in high school physics where you assume one variable (air resistance) is constant or negligable produces wrong results compared to actual implimentations, the same applies here.
Sorry Stephen to step on your baby but you are not getting anything close to accurate results by trying to hedge the equations. Bring in all the available guns and even prohibit them by level for the playtest these are 1-4 options these are 5-8 options thse are 9-12 these are 12+ so that folks can playtest with something close to the real opportunites they will have in game.
to do less hurts this classes actual play at publishing.
I wanna know how heavy bullets and gunpowder are to carry. I'm rolling up a halfling gunslinger and carrying capacity is going to be something I have to keep an eye on.
Also, would it be Craft(alchemy) to create my own gunpowder? Any special rules there?
I second the need for Perception as a class skill.
I second Daring Act being a bit sketchy, though I'd love to hear the creators reasons for it. I love the flavor, but doubt how it will actually play out a bit.