First take on Gunslinger and Firearms

[Joseph Davis]

There's tons of threads here about what's wrong with firearms, and to a lesser extent the Gunslinger, but I'd like to point out what I like about them.

Firearms: Overall, I'm satisfied with the base concept of firearms. There's been talk about making them a Simple Weapon, since it's not hard to use them, but I disagree. The Exotic weapon is a decent concept for a medieval fantasy. For example: firing a gun is pretty easy, and it's not TOO hard to hit a decent sized target from close range, but this is represented in the "touch attack" at melee range (though this could be handled other ways, I think this is the "best" way to handle it without over complicating things.) However, to hit well, and be able to fire consistently accurately, the proficiency would be required. Even at low levels, a -4 to attack rolls is a small price to pay to be able to hit with a great axe or longsword on a touch attack (along with the x4 crit chance.) While the reloading of the firearm makes it impossible to near impossible to get multiple attacks, this forces the player to go about using the weapon for more than just straight damage. Rogues could obviously use this for a combat opener, sneak attack with a great axe against touch ac is pretty nice, especially if your not at point blank range, but within sneak attack range. Fighters would be able to use them for the multitude of ranged feats that grant not only damage bonuses, but can also give special effects (stun, etc.)

Gunslingers: I really like this class. For a full base attack class, it's pretty unique, for the fact that it's a more "utility" offensive class, with all of it's Grit abilities, and combined with it's skill and feat options, it's not bad at all. It's a class that forces player's to think outside the box a little. A gunslinger can do decent damage (with feats like vital strike, deadly aim and point blank shot), and can use other decent feats like Combat Expertise, but it requires the player to approach a ranged class differently than before, think outside the box a little.

Ultimately, I think they both need a little work, but not as much as everyone thinks. If I had to change anything, it'd be the cost of the ammo.

[cranewings]

I think the gunslinger class is stupid. I'm slightly offended by the addition of more goofy metagame concepts like grit - which is the main reason why I don't play 4e. Why is the gunslinger grittier than the fighter? because he shoots them from far away while that fighter is forced to knife everyone to death? I'll tell you who is grittier between the two.

[CalebTGordan]

I too like the class, but as I said in my thoughts post, I think it doesn't yet fit well with the other classes.

As for the guns, they are closed to the playtest so I just stay away of trying to think about them.

If anything, I think "Grit" needs to be renamed, the class needs at least one more mechanic for melee, and a mechanic that allows uses for black powder outside guns. I know those changes alone would make it a powerful class, but I feel the ideas at lease need to be addressed.