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First of all I love the Gunslinger, works equally well for a Pirate or a Cowboy (and frankly the game needed these options :D).
That said, I think the Gunslinger might be a Base class rather than a fighter sub-class.
Here's why:
Grit: It's such a unique and thorough class feature that I can't help but feel that it's removed itself from the fighter's purview.
Multi-Classing: I feel a Gunslinger/Fighter multiclass should be possible, as far as I'm aware you can't multiclass between a subclass and the class it's based on. There's nothing incompatible between a fighter and a gunslinger (and it might be fun to go with a switch/hitter fighter gunslinger build).
I also feel the same way about the Ninja. While it bears a lot of similarities to the rogue they aren't incompatible.
The samurai on the other hand has so many similarities to the Cavalier it might as well just be additional orders.
When I first saw the Anti-Paladin base class I thought it was brilliant because it's completely incompatible with the paladin.
In any case what do others think?
Can I ask the devs why they chose Sub-Classes rather than base classes?
I really love this stuff, and am definitely going to implement it into my games ^_^
I see it as replacing too much for both the rogue and fighter to go into either gunslinger or ninja.
Question regarding this sub-class idea. Do your levels in the sub-class count as levels in the main class? Meaning is a 5th level gunslinger a 5th level fighter regarding feat prerequisites and such?
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Question regarding this sub-class idea. Do your levels in the sub-class count as levels in the main class? Meaning is a 5th level gunslinger a 5th level fighter regarding feat prerequisites and such?
"When a character takes a level in one of these classes, he cannot later take levels in the other version of that class. For example, when a character takes levels of ninja, he cannot later take levels of rogue. For the purposes of prerequisites or other effects, each of these alternate classes counts as the class that it is related to."
Yep!
"When a character takes a level in one of these classes, he cannot later take levels in the other version of that class. For example, when a character takes levels of ninja, he cannot later take levels of rogue. For the purposes of prerequisites or other effects, each of these alternate classes counts as the class that it is related to."Yep!
Thanks for the reply. Guess I just missed that little tidbit.
Not to thread jack but I have another question. If you fire a pistol from your "off-hand" do you incur the penalty for two-weapon fighting? Could you rapid fire with two different weapons?|
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"When a character takes a level in one of these classes, he cannot later take levels in the other version of that class. For example, when a character takes levels of ninja, he cannot later take levels of rogue. For the purposes of prerequisites or other effects, each of these alternate classes counts as the class that it is related to."Yep!
Thanks for the reply. Guess I just missed that little tidbit.
Not to thread jack but I have another question. If you fire a pistol from your "off-hand" do you incur the penalty for two-weapon fighting? Could you rapid fire with two different weapons?
If it's one shot (like say a sort of buccaneer style thing going on with a pistol in one hand and a sword in the other) and one shot only, then no, you shouldn't incur the penalty. However, if you fire a pistol in each hand, you would incur the TWF penalties. Interestingly enough, I can't see anything saying that you would treat them like a "light" weapon. The closest thing is that in that little chart it says "One-Handed Firearms", which seems to suggest that you would take a -4/-4 penalty when TWF with them, which sucks. As for Rapid Shot, the feat pretty explicitly says "one additional time", so with TWF and Rapid Shot, you get 3 attacks.
Thanks for the reply. Guess I just missed that little tidbit.
Not to thread jack but I have another question. If you fire a pistol from your "off-hand" do you incur the penalty for two-weapon fighting? Could you rapid fire with two different weapons?
It would be like using two light crossbows -- you can rapid shot but it only gets you one extra shot (not two). So if at level 1 you had two weapon fighting, point blank shot and rapid shot you could take 3 shots (providing you have multibarrel pistols, or revolvers or something else like it) with a total penalty on each shot of -6.
My vote is for Base Class!
If it becomes one, I'll be so happy to start introducing them come August when the book is released, where in my Forgotten Realms campaign the island of Lantan will slowly introduce travelers that have trained as gunslingers while in Lantan, or end up training others to be gunslingers...such as PCs :D
Honestly this is the only one of the 3 that even looks like a sub class and not an archetype with a different name. I am fine with subclass.
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Question regarding this sub-class idea. Do your levels in the sub-class count as levels in the main class? Meaning is a 5th level gunslinger a 5th level fighter regarding feat prerequisites and such?"When a character takes a level in one of these classes, he cannot later take levels in the other version of that class. For example, when a character takes levels of ninja, he cannot later take levels of rogue. For the purposes of prerequisites or other effects, each of these alternate classes counts as the class that it is related to."
Yep!
Ok some people seem to be misreading the prologue and expanding it into a Sub-Class system...
Lets expand the text a little to shed some light on how I read it (designers are more than happy to elaborate of cause).
Original Text: "When a character takes a level in one of these classes, he cannot later take levels in the other version of that class. For example, when a character takes levels of ninja, he cannot later take levels of rogue. For the purposes of prerequisites or other effects, each of these alternate classes counts as the class that it is related to."
Expanded Text: "When a character takes a level in gunslinger, ninja, or the samurai classes, he cannot later take levels in the other version of that class. For example, when a character takes levels of ninja, he cannot later take levels of rogue. For the purposes of prerequisites or other effects, each of these alternate classes counts as the class that it is related to."
Ok its a small adjustment but it does give the following scenario...
a campaign starts in the inner sea. a player chooses to play a rogue, he ventures till level 5 and then the campaign moves to the east. he encounters a ninja and the GM offers up the class as a new selection. the rogue levels to 6 but instead takes a ninja level (1) he now is a rogue 5/ninja 1 but in doing so must continue training as a ninja, he can no longer return to rogue. since this is a sub class his sneak attacks stack, and it does not count as a traditional multiclass (ie the character retains his bonus hit point/skill point).
Now what does this mean in the grand scheme of things.
Well to me I looked at these classes as a change in the flavor of the game.
In the middle east ninja's and samurai's would be commonplace while rogues and cavaliers would be strangers and uncommon.
In the wild west a gunslinger would be the combat form of choice thus making a traditional sword and broad, heavily armored fighter unusual and out of place.
While I could see peoples arguments for mixing it up to make some super fighter/gunslinger, I feel by doing so you lose the uniqueness of these classes and there overall impact of a game setting. This can become traumatic for a GM who wants such oddities to remain mysterious.
I take it this is exclusive in both directions, i.e. you cannot have both version of a class, regardless of order. You cannot be both a ninja and a rogue, or both a samurai and a cavalier, or both a fighter and a gunslinger, just as you can't be a Conjurer and an Evoker at the same time.
...stuff...
It was stated on a different thread that you cannot take levels in both rogue and ninja, gunslinger and fighter, cavalier and samurai.