I'm hoping to run Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil. From what I understand this is not just a rehash of the original but a legitimate sequel. If it's half the fun as the original we should have a blast going from 4th-14th level.
Anyway, I was hoping I could get some input on how this particular campaign converts. Has anyone tried converting this over to Pathfinder? Is there anything I should pay particular attention to?
It was a good read, I know that for sure.
I never got to play it or even read the adventure.
One of my DMs tried running this for our group. It didn't go over well, but mostly because our group doesn't like dungeon crawls. That being said, most of the enemies faced in the dungeon were pretty lacking compared to our characters (4 PCs, 20 pt. buy).
I would suggest that either you rebuild the encounters using the new versions of the critters from the Bestiary/Bestiary 2, or, as a simpler option, apply the Simple Advanced template to each critter, then make sure you jot down their CMB/CMD totals
Thanks for the advice. I think I can see how some of the encounters could be pretty anemic. I think I am going to take some liberty with the encounters and try to spice things up a bit.
I got to be a slog for me when I ran it. Just a very big dungeon with little to no RP (except at the very beginning). Just a series of encounters and then a boss, rinse and repeat.
The AP's are far more what I was looking for.
I can see how that might get boring. Any ideas how to introduce more elements of RP? Right now I'm just looking for some ideas to keep this campaign running as smoothly as possible.
I can see how that might get boring. Any ideas how to introduce more elements of RP? Right now I'm just looking for some ideas to keep this campaign running as smoothly as possible.
To preserve some of the feeling of the original ToEE, I think you just need to toughen up the encounters a bit (along the lines of the excellent advice above), so that the party can't just crash through it but is forced to rely on stealth and subterfuge, pitting the factions against each other. Of course that runs the risk of making the dungeon even more tedious. We had fun playing this, but it was really a lot of hack'n'slash.
I think you will need to provide the opportunity for the party to make some unlikely allies (maybe dropping some rather heavy hints of internecine rivalry and strife) if you're going to introduce some role-playing in it.
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I'm hoping to run Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil. From what I understand this is not just a rehash of the original but a legitimate sequel. If it's half the fun as the original we should have a blast going from 4th-14th level.
Anyway, I was hoping I could get some input on how this particular campaign converts. Has anyone tried converting this over to Pathfinder? Is there anything I should pay particular attention to?
My players are currently moving from the Outer Fane to the Inner Fane.
My experience is slightly different than standard, so keep that in mind as I give advice. I slotted it in as part of a meta-plot for my own campaign setting, with a completely differenct level set (players started at 8 and are currently 14, with the whole inner fane and recovered temple to go), different motivations for the NPC's, different gods, and an artifact at the end that they needed for the next leg of the meta plot (the Elemental Eye. Go figure.) In other words, I used the module as a skeleton that I redesigned around my own devices. Again, keep that in mind, as it means that not all my advice will be applicable.
1) emphasize the RP going on in Hommlet. If you don't use the opportunities this gives you, your adventure will be nothing more than a dungeon crawl and fall flat on its face (unless your players show a homicidal propensity for killing and get bored by anything that doesn't require rolling dice). There is so much opportunity for RP that I don't even know where to start. Oh wait, I do... have Meridosen the barkeep at the Inn of the Welcome Wench begin a love affair with the PC's. It's a perfect excuse for the enemy to have information on the party.
2) Toss out the encounter list. Many monsters in it were closed content and anemic. Converting them will require more time and effort than it's really worth, especially if your players aren't the "right" level for that stage of the adventure. Obviously, this advice is biased because my players started out at a higher level than the module anticipates, but in regards to mind flayers and beholders, I stand by my "swap it out" suggestion.
3) The players do not have to explore everything. If they miss something important (such as a key piece of information), move it so that it's in their way. Do NOT let them know you did this, or it comes off as strongarming the adventure. I recommend this solely as a way to "trim the fat". For my party, the dungeon was far too large and taking far too long, so I cut off entire sections of the Temple of All Consumption. I let them wrestle information out of a drow that let them know there were other entrances, but that not all sections of the temple were interconnected. That way, if they wanted to explore the rest of the temple they could, but it wasn't essential. Since my players aren't too keen on long dungeon crawls, they took the opportunity to power through.
4) Play with it. Personalize it to your style of play. This is standard advice, and duplicates what I was saying for #1, but it's really important in this one. A normal module is both easier to personalize and easier to recover from if you do a bad job of it. ToEE is a monstrosity, and failing to make it come alive can have a severe impact on the adventures enjoyment. The module is designed to be flexible enough for you to play around with the characters and monsters. If you don't take this opportunity, it will stop making sense to the players. Case in point: I forgot that the temple was a living breathing environment, and the players were getting too far in without major alarms and enemies running all over the place. I decided that Varachan (sp?), the cleric with the change of heart, was using his political pull within the dungeon to keep a lid on things. When the party ran in to him, they got excited because of how "real" it made things. It also heightened their fear tremendously when Varachen was killed, as their free pass was gone and they knew the whole might of the Temple was about to crash down on them.
Last, but not least: I had to change the name of the watch captain. Players with Sesame Street aged children have a hard time taking Captain Elmo seriously...
Thanks for the advice.
We've just entered Homlett and have been trying to sort a few things out. The missing potion-master was the half-brother to one of my players and the Barbarian is a direct decedent of one of the original heroes so he has a small amount of political pull. At the moment they are planning on storming the hobgoblin hideout in hopes of finding the lost potion-master. However, the barbarian is reluctant to admit that the temple may have comeback as he sees it as a failure of his father.
I like the idea of the barmaid acting as a spy. I think that we could get a lot of mileage out of that.
I've already had to go through and swap out a lot of the monsters. I've found that the group of players I game with tend to be extremely gifted at working together and if I don't make the encounters a level or 3 higher than they should be my monsters get pulverized...
I think I'll take a closer look at the temple and the fane to see what I can cut and what I should highlight. I thought about having a faction of the cult seek out my players and try to enlist them in overthrowing some opposing priests... I've always thought that harmonious evil was a bit boring.
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I remember this PC game, the original. to get to level 2 before leaving the town. you had to run around everywhere. get one of your characters married to the butcher's daughter... then walk outside and kill her for the xp...
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Thanks for the advice.
I like the idea of the barmaid acting as a spy. I think that we could get a lot of mileage out of that.
The player was getting a little too into it. He was actually looking at houses in Hommlet and asking the different churches for the best price on weddings.
It made it all the more potent when they were rummaging through Hedracks bedroom and found a page from his journal with her perfume on it...
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I've already had to go through and swap out a lot of the monsters. I've found that the group of players I game with tend to be extremely gifted at working together and if I don't make the encounters a level or 3 higher than they should be my monsters get pulverized...
Yeah... if you can steer people away from playing paladins, I'd recommend it. ToEE is pretty heavy on evil and outsiders. It's one thing to have pally smash through one challenging encounters, but without severe modification they'll run roughshod over far too many encounters. I as GM am tired of finding excuses for plant monsters and neutral dire animals in a dungeon that's supposed to be full of evil elementals...
Groups. I recommend lots of groups. Forget the elder elemental and go for two or three weaker ones. Then, halfway through the combat have "mom" come running. Pally will have already used one smite and may hesitate before using another one.