RPG Superstar 2009 Top 4
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Star Voter Season 6
aka raidou
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Artus, your Lantern was one of my favorites from last round, and this round you're tinkering with a rogue archetype that's a perfect fit for the class. You're quite good at making your concepts feel like they belong as a natural part of the material. Let's see what you can do with this one.
Bamboozle (Ex): A charlatan can implement a cunning and ingenious weave of lies and half-truths allowing him to gain the confidence of those around him. While using Disguise to alter his appearance, a charlatan may use Bluff instead of Diplomacy to alter a target's starting attitude or to make a request... This ability replaces trapfinding.
This is really great! The best ability of the class. It gives you some fun mechanical benefits while under the disguise and some entertaining roleplaying opportunities too.
Mystical Ruse (Ex): At 3rd level, the charlatan becomes adept at acting the part of a spellcaster. The charlatan gains a +1 competence bonus on Use Magic Device checks except for attempts to decipher a written spell. This bonus increases by +1 for every 3 levels beyond 3rd. The charlatan also gains a +2 circumstance bonus on Disguise checks while impersonating a spellcaster as long as he uses a wand, staff, or scroll as part of the disguise. This ability replaces trap sense.
Very nice. I like this ability quite a bit, and it appears balanced with what you give up.
Distracting Ploy (Ex): At 4th level, the charlatan may don a disguise as a standard action by taking a -5 penalty on his check. He may also use Bluff to create a distraction as a swift action. This ability replaces uncanny dodge.
This is basically the same as the bard Street Performer's "Quick Change" ability. I can't find any rules regarding how long it takes to "don a disguise" normally but creating one takes several minutes. These times are reduced by the "quick disguise" rogue talent. Does anyone know what the base time to don a disguise is? Regardless, it's thematically appropriate for the class.
Perfect Delivery (Ex): At 8th level, the charlatan can trick a target as a standard action into doing an activity it normally would not do. This effect works as suggestion using the charlatan's level as his caster level. The target gets a Will save (DC 13 + the charlatan's Charisma modifier). At 16th level, the charlatan can use perfect delivery twice per day. This ability replaces improved uncanny dodge.
Reasonable ability, but it should probably either be a (Sp) ability or else require some kind of skill check.
Artus, this is a nicely constructed archetype. It holds together both mechanically and thematically. It's also balanced reasonably well with the other rogue archetypes in the APG, which says a lot about your eye for detail and balance. Nice work this round, and you have a vote from me.
It's all been said, but this is a pretty darned solid showing. I think it definitely veers off towards the silly in places (fellow players will laugh the first time you step around a corner and come back next round as a fabulously-dressed elven oracle; that I kept thinking of the Master of Disguise here may or may not be a good thing), but I think a lot of games can handle that in good fun.
As a DM who tends to keep a lot of characters on stage, this class's social-fu often looks a lot more powerful than what it's replacing, but (as ruemere and Ryan Dancey's posts illustrate) different DMs may see this quite differently. What you've done is make an archetype which is more powerful in some games and less in others (or that's a good option for groups with multiple rogues), and that's totally legit.
You've got my vote, and I'm looking forward to seeing you in R3.
Bamboozle: Bluff instead of Diplomacy, is useful, it means I don’t have to put points in both. I would have liked for the Charlatan to be able to do this all the time, not just while in disguise. Also the last sentence is nice, but not that necessary, as most GMs would let a PC make multiple Bluff checks against an NPC, if the NPC believed that the disguised Charlatan was someone else. As others have said not the greatest trade off, but this avoids front loading the class.
Mystical Ruse: bonus to UMD, ok if you want pretend to be a caster. I would like a bonus to Bluff or something like that, because if I’m going to be a Charlatan, I want to be the best liar out there.
Distracting Ploy: Ok here I get fussy, the Master Spy prestige class (which can be taken at a minimum of 8th level) has an ability called Quick Change:
Quick Change (Ex): Starting at 4th level, a master spy can assume a disguise in only 2d4 rounds by taking a –10 penalty on her Disguise check. This penalty drops to –5 at 8th level.
While the ability isn’t that powerful, it does seem a bit unrealistic to be able to throw on a disguise in 6 seconds, and do something better than a 12th level character who is a Master Spy.
Bluff to create a distraction as a swift action, is thematic and makes sense.
Perfect Delivery: Cool, but an (Ex)traordinary suggestion is worrying from a rules point of view. And the DC really should be 10 + 1/2 class level + Cha modifier. A static DC makes this an almost useless ability at high levels.
This archetype feels underpowered, even from a thematic point of view that I want to be great at telling lies and getting people to do things against their better judgment.
I like the idea, and your writing is good. Good luck.
Bamboozle: Bluff instead of Diplomacy, is useful, it means I don’t have to put points in both.
I believe the idea is that the disguise is integral to the deception. He secures your aid by being a displaced Nigerian prince, who, owing to your excellent credit score, would like your assistance in transferring a large sum of money to your country.
Bamboozle: Bluff instead of Diplomacy, is useful, it means I don’t have to put points in both.I believe the idea is that the disguise is integral to the deception. He secures your aid by being a displaced Nigerian prince, who, owing to your excellent credit score, would like your assistance in transferring a large sum of money to your country.
True, but that doesn't mean I have to be dressed up like a prince. (All I need to do is to send you an email using ALL CAPS and you are sure to send me a small advance, and I will richly reward you when my millions of dollars are released :-)
Plenty of swindlers don't have a disguise on when they try to hustle you out of money, although the smarter ones are likely to, so that they can't be identified by the authorities later.
I might be missing something here, but the alternate features here strike me as being overly limited in their use, all in all really really weak save on a specialized NPC.
Ability to roll Bluff instead of Diplomacy... with a slew of limitations... and in place of trapfinding? That's horrible! If trapfinding is given up, something solid needs to replace it!
Don disguises as a swift action? Isn't there a talent for that? That talent you're not taking because Bleeding Attack is so much better?
Etc. It's got style, but it's so weak compared to a base-Rogue.
-Matt
I like this a lot. Voted for it. Good luck.
Dedicated Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8
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Name and concept: The second sentence doesn't start this entry well.
Archetype mechanics, expression of the concept: Bamboozle: From lies, this now introduces disguises as a major function of the charlatan. Is this the Candid Camera archetype now? "and stops performing" .. I just about disbelieved this entry on reading that expression. The substitution for trapfinding seems appropriate.
Mystical Ruse: Very good to see this connection to the name chosen.
Distracting Ploy: Two unrelated abilities in one line makes this a bit jarring.
Perfect Delivery: This is unacceptably vague. Maybe a time limit could have made it believable as a momentary failure of moral judgement on the target's part.
Rogue Talents: I'm glad to see this part of the entry, which none of the other rogue archetypes included.
Wider relationships: This is one of three attempts at a similar concept in this round and, despite its flaws, an attractive attempt.
I really like some aspects of this and strongly object to others. Since this is the last archetype I've read, it's decision time. I think I want to see what this contestant can do.
Artus,
Very nice job on this one.
My commenting rubric focuses mostly on concept, writing, and theme; I've got a lot less to add to wiser forumgoers than I on the mechanics side of it.
Resonance
Is the concept a cohesive, identifiable archetype? Do I understand the concept? Is it colorful, interesting, innovative?
This is a concept that was sorely missing from the APG; it's a very natural one that I expect to be in a lot of demand. It's a challenge, because it's a narrow slot, based heavily in roleplaying interactions - but that's also exactly why players will be clamoring for an archetype that does it right.
Implementation
Does the implementation of the archetype do justice to the concept? Can the archetype character do the type of things we'd expect him to?
Very nice selection of relevant, appropriate abilities. Everything here makes a lot of sense and fits in very nicely.
My chief concern is that I feel the implementation is, indeed, very focused on roleplaying encounters; you're giving away a lot of the rogue's basic abilities and survival skills for that. A character like this, in many PF games, would both have few targets to defraud and have few defenses in the dungeons he'd actually be adventuring in.
In other words, that's probably a pretty fair implementation of the charlatan archetype :P But it would have been even cooler if you'd found some way to bring the charlatan's skills to bear against a wider variety of challenges.
I also kind of feel that there's not much here that wouldn't be accomplished by spending a lot of points into Bluff, Disguise, Use Magic Device, and Charisma in general. Not necessarily a problem; this is very solidly done. I just would've liked to see this reach farther than it does.
Playability
Would players want to play this archetype? Would this character archetype have a place in a game? Will the archetype's unique flavor be evident in actual gameplay?
I think most players would avoid this archetype if they weren't guaranteed a very roleplaying-heavy game. It implements what it promised, but it doesn't go the extra step of spreading that flavor into many aspects of the character, and so that implementation might easily be buried in actual gameplay.
All in all, I think this was a well-chosen concept, with a huge challenge in it. I don't think you've met that extra challenge in a way I'd describe as being truly impressive, but your writing, ideas, and presentation are all excellent - and a solid foundation like that is very impressive indeed. You've got my vote. Didn't go as far as you could have - I hope we'll see you extending yourself more in future rounds :D
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Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7
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I really like this Archetype. The concept is great and while I know only a few players who would take up the mantle of a charlatan, I know those would play it with delight.
The abilities the charlatan gets fit the concept and the abilities lost don't take anything from the concept. Good work.
While only useful in social encounters and roleplaying- heavy games, these are the styles I prefer. I'd understand why not everyone votes for this, but he's got my vote for sure.
I really like this archetype Artus. I'm going to show it to my DM. Keep up the good work and gratz on making it to Round 2.