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How do you get that much damage at level 5?!
Summoner casts Haste (situational)
Eidolon does a full attack
Guidance prepared in advance of attack
All attacks hit
Already, this is ridiculous since more than 3/4 of the time this won't happen (just like sneak attack) - but let's just see how bad rogue situational dps is...
Level 5 Biped Eidolon
Equip: amulet of mighty fists +1, belt of giant str +2
Buffs: Haste, Guidance (on 1 bite)
Feats: Power Attack, Weapon Focus: Bite
Evolutions: str+2 (2), bite (1), tentacle (1), imp. bite (1), energy attacks-acid (2), trip-bite (2)
Assuming power attack and the extra haste attack applies to the bite we have:
Bite +13, 2d6+17 and trip (guidance)
Hasted Bite +12, 2d6+17 and trip
Left Claw +11, d4+d6+12
Right Claw +11, d4+d6+12
Tentacle +6, d4+d6+6
A total of 7d6+3d4+64 damage (non-crit). You can see how ridiculous it is to give situational damage the same weight as normal damage. Those without high BAB (like an Eidolon/Rogue) will miss half their attacks and those with multiple attacks can almost never use them on the first round (and when they do, minions tend to die before they can use them all).
Meanwhile the Fighter/Barbarian WILL hit almost always, even on high AC mobs, they scale better with buffs, and don't depend on full attacks to do insane DPS. In other words, they do great DPS in every situation.
FYI: this build is NOT the max dpr class or build, but good luck coming anywhere near these with a maxxed out rogue.
In theory, the rogue can do tons of damage. In practice, they miss half the time, and do not flank, as trying to do so leaves them open, and after two rounds; dead.
Every game I have hosted, or played in, the fighters/rangers/paladins have mopped the floor with the opposition. The two rogues I have seen have either quit the game, or asked to remake levels into a wizard/rogue so she could be useful outside the few chances she got to sneak attack.
A fighter beats a rogue. Every time.
So my ogre fighters have to have gone to college?
Community college. Or an ivy league school on a football scholarship where they majored in philosophy.
*Cronk ok? how many fingers cronk see?*
*Fingers? What fingers?*
*ooooo thats deep.*
So my ogre fighters have to have gone to college?Lol.
Well the archtypical fighter went to fightery school and a barbarian grew up in a barbarian tribe.You would think being a learned person they would get more skills, but the barbarians get more.
Skills aren't just about theoretical knowledge; int-based skills certainly are, but most other skills have different amounts of theoretics behind them. If you look at the class skills, the fighter has two knowledges while the barbarian only has one; and the one the barbarian has is the least bookwormy knowledge in the game (together with knowledge (local). The barbarian has a much more varied life, and thus is in need of more skills to survive. The fighter lives a more sheltered life in some ways, in that the only thing he does is fight and thus he has little time to train other things. The barbarian is a warrior, but not ONLY a warrior; he's also an outdoorsman.
Kind of like how a boy scout that isn't good in school might still be more resourceful than a nerdy kid who's good at math.
Even if we give the Rogue his sneak attack damage as an automatic addition, Fighters still blow the ever-loving hell out of a Rogue's damage output. Fighters are way more than +5 to hit above the Rogue. A bog standard, naked-except-for-weapons Fighter is going to have an absolute minimum of +10 to hit above and beyond an identically-built Rogue (5 BAB, +1 Greater Weapon Focus, +4 Weapon Training). He also has more attacks than the Rogue (again assuming identical builds with respect to stats and number of weapons wielded). More attacks + more likely to hit > slightly more damage.
And yes, it is only slightly more damage; a level 20 Rogue may have +10d6 damage per hit, but the level 20 Fighter has +14 (+4 greater specialization, +4 weapon training, +6 power attack) with an additional +5-10 against anything with DR (from Greater Penetrating Strike). Assuming a creature with DR 5/-, and both characters with 30 strength Power Attacking with a greatsword, the Rogue will hit for 12d6+22 (average of 64) and the Fighter will hit for 2d6+41 (average of 48). That's only 16 less damage per hit, not 35. The Fighter easily makes up for that with his extra attack.
It's even more in the Fighter's favor if he uses a bow (since he'll get an extra full attack over the Rogue) or if the Rogue is a finesse build (because he'll lose out on all that damage from Strength).